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This year I settled in as a retirement newbie and so far I'm really enjoying myself. Here's how I spent this year's summer, besides all the other chores. Some may laugh, some may cry, some may curse, some may cheer, but I hope all will find something here to enjoy for a bit. I plan to build this once and not to have to do this again. Who hasn't said that? The more eyes on a project the more likely mistakes and gotcha's will be avoided so input is always appreciated. One can only hope.

Why Turkey Hollow?  I have some interesting neighbors who throw some wild parties. These guys are much more interesting that I am. And our house sits down from the road quite a bit. No turkeys were harmed or killed during railroad construction to date.

tom_turkeys_red

The layout for Turkey Hollow Railroad has been limited to approximately 22 x 10 feet of my finished basement and is bounded on the bottom (east) and right (north) by the interior framed walls. The left and top, south and west, sides are open walkways. These requirements and the desire for a wide center aisle have pretty much set the bench design for the first level.

The southside is made of 48" wide sections. With the exception of my lift table which has a 66 1/2" length, and one small filler, the sections are also 48" in length. The curve in the lower right corner is the anticipated curve of the backdrop to be installed. There will be some access behind the backdrop.

turkey_hollow_bench_plan

How good, or bad, is a design using software (anyRail in my case)? I believe like most things software, the results are as good as the effort put in. Spoiler alert! I've already built the top and left sides. When I cut the pieces for the filler between the to 48 x48 tables it was with 1/2" of the plan. It is tedious and a little painful to do freehand drawing with these software packages but it is possible to get good results. How well one can measure the room also has a great deal to do with how good of a model you can build in software.

I chose to build with furniture grade plywood, specifically arctic birch plywood, pocket screw joinery. This is the multi-layer, metric plywood you may see mentioned often. This choice was made based on price and uniformity of the material. I don't like paying $8+ for a curvy, wavy, stick of wood. My local supplier keeps a decent stock but the price has jumped over the last year, 69.95. I rip a sheet down into 3 1/2" wide strips, 16 per sheet. A 1 x 3 1/2 x 60 for less than $4.50 each. I takes 5 sticks to build a 48 x 48 table using 16" centers.

There are two, 48" radius curves at the ends of the southside, and there are two, 36" radius curves at the end of the middle walkway. My local supplier carries Whacky Wood (goes by several names, it's bendable plywood) for $38 for a 4 x 8 column which I ripped into 4" x 96" strips. This stuff is only 5/16" thick so I chose to use three strips for each curve so they would be at least 3/4" thick.

Once I cut the two sides and braces at 16" centers I laid out an approximate 48" arch on some scrap plywood and built a form. The whacky wood bends uniformly and helps this process along. If your cuts are true this will work well.

form

Here are three strips, formed and cut to length, ready for gluing up.

glue_up

Glued and back into the clamps.

glued

It just so happened that the location for the lift table was very close to the high point of the floor so I carefully set that table first, being triply sure to measure the distance from the long wall on the opposite side.

Once I build this benchwork, lay track, and wire things up I will reach the extent of my knowledge and experience with model railroading. That will begin a much slower, and hopefully relaxing, pace.  I decided I will add a backdrop in hopes it will give me some inspiration for scenery. The bench work stopped and I popped open the ceiling tiles to locate the studs and added a valance to hang a 36" backdrop. The valance is right about 86" high and it is working out that my second layout level will be around 50" so it will be close to a good height. I used some 1/4" tempered hardboard I had in the scrap bin for the valance. It is 4" wide and I plan to hang the backdrop from it using double sided carpet tape.

ceiling

north_east

north

At this point I built the 36" inner curve section and a 36" x 48" table to complete the west end. Once everything was squared and leveled up the 36 x 48 table was secured to the wall studs with #10, 3" deck screws.

south_west

This week I finished the main structure of the southside, where I'll pause until the backdrop gets installed. It may be a few weeks until I order one.

The legs are laminated 1 x 7/8 wide strips of two, 18mm (3/4") and one, 12mm (1/2") plywood. 48mm is approximately 7/8". I capped off the ends to help protect the plywood layers and give threaded inserts a good surface to seat on. Most all legs are set back 4 1/2" from the edge.

The plan was to have 39" height, I cut the legs 38 3/8" long and with the 5/8 for the leveler it should have worked out. What I didn't account for was the need for a jam nut (~1/2") and the addition of the 3" diameter plywood "hockey pucks" advised by Tom Tee that add about 5/8" to the height. In the end the lowest point is 40" off the floor. Not to design but I won't lose sleep over it. And those round plywood pucks with some plastic carpet pad on the bottom really made leveling possible on the carpet, even with no pad under.

That is where I stopped last evening. I'll be finishing up some odds and ends for a little while. I'd like to get on past this structural phase and begin the next steps in building the railroad parts, which is really where I need the most input. I have something of a track plan started, and some scenic ideas that I will share when they seem a little more evolved.

You may have noticed all the extra junk laying around that I have to keep moving out of the way. I've at least moved the heaviest stuff onto furniture dollies. 

Thanks for playing!

Attachments

Images (9)
  • tom_turkeys_red
  • turkey_hollow_bench_plan
  • form
  • glued
  • glue_up
  • ceiling
  • north_east
  • north
  • south_west
Last edited by turkey_hollow_rr
Original Post

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This is a very impressive undertaking Dan which will afford you many decades of enjoyment. Since you are not sure about how things will unfold, scenically and operationally, I would suggest removing the furring strips and painting the wall blue. This will afford you flexibility as you progress. I was very pleased with the result from using Sherwin-Williams “cloudless”. You can get cloud stencils, or create them free hand, along the upper area of the wall. Depending upon how your empire evolves, you can incorporate an appropriate flat for that area of the wall.  Of course you can incorporate backdrops that you purchase.An excellent resource that I found is a book by CJ Riley entitled, “Realistic Layouts Use The Art of Illusion to Model Like a Pro”. It has given me a different perspective on looking at things.

My experiences with trains in my youth were always in a rural, small town setting so I don't have any connection to larger industries and cities. The general theme will be of a small, spur line that services freight in and out of the mythical region known as Turkey Hollow.

Here is the current track plan for the lower level, it loops forever or reverses only to the direction needed to access the upper level. The curves are 080 and 096 on the exposed right side. The right side is mostly hidden with 080 and 072 curves.

I can post anyRail files if there is interest but I don't have SCARM, sorry. I am starting with over 100 feet of Atlas O and some Ross switches I already have that will be most of the upper layer track. This plan mixes in Ross and Gargraves flex track as well in case I get tired of waiting for Atlas O track.

turkey_hollow_first_level

Adding in the transition to the second level at 9", maximum grade planned is 2.4%, and mostly hidden in back until it is high enough, around 7", to clear the first level and hopefully emerge from a tunnel portal around there. This is at the bottom of the image. From that portal to the connection with the upper layer on the lift table there is less than 1% slope so there will be some visual for viewing from the left. The plan is for 4" clearance between the wall and ties on the right side.

turkey_hollow_lvl_1_trans

I'm posting the second level track plan by itself as it gets too busy to see with the lower track. It can loop forever on either inside or outside track. The inner track provides a loop back only in the direction needed to  go back to the lower level. You can see the engine shed near the top and two sides for parking/servicing up to four engines. The current plan is to park a switcher, sd-40 maybe, on the short track at the end of the yard.

turkey_hollow_upper_level

Attachments

Images (3)
  • turkey_hollow_first_level
  • turkey_hollow_lvl_1_trans
  • turkey_hollow_upper_level

This is a very impressive undertaking Dan which will afford you many decades of enjoyment. Since you are not sure about how things will unfold, scenically and operationally, I would suggest removing the furring strips and painting the wall blue. This will afford you flexibility as you progress. I was very pleased with the result from using Sherwin-Williams “cloudless”. You can get cloud stencils, or create them free hand, along the upper area of the wall. Depending upon how your empire evolves, you can incorporate an appropriate flat for that area of the wall.  Of course you can incorporate backdrops that you purchase.An excellent resource that I found is a book by CJ Riley entitled, “Realistic Layouts Use The Art of Illusion to Model Like a Pro”. It has given me a different perspective on looking at things.

Jay, if not for my wife that is pretty much what I would have done. I'm not confident in creating scenery mostly because I've never done it and still learning where/how to start. Based on what I described to my wife as my theme for Turkey Hollow she suggested a backdrop of hills and trees. And I think I've done the hardest part of adding a backdrop, except paying for one.

I have three scenic elements at this point, the two stall engine shed, three bridges, and a one barn for a single farm. I've placed the shed and bridges where they might work but I'm not sure if a farm is better on the lower level down the southside or the bottom corner of the upper level next to the sidings.

I suppose I'm start to develop a general idea of what I want for scenery but past ballasting track I don't have developed skills.

This is my new job, Mark.   I've had the pleasure of turning down two contract recruiters this week.

I don't know how the weather was last evening were every one else lives but here in New England it was about the most beautiful evening one could hope to enjoy this far into summer. It was in the upper 60's, not a cloud in the sky. My wife and I enjoyed some live music from a local jazz group playing an outdoor set or two. I have a friend who is quite the accomplished trombonist who plays with this group so it was good to visit with friends as well.

I suppose some of my ideas for my layout are a little more developed than it seemed to me. Maybe because I'm mostly focused on building a foundation right now and only beginning to look ahead at what will things look like. As the mental image develops of what I'd like to see I realize what I don't know regarding scenery and what I need to research.

For my comments, I'm going to use left, right, top and bottom based on how your plans displayed above.

1.  As designed, you can have at least three trains running the loops, one on bottom and two on top.  However, since you have no designed yard lead, any switch engine working the yard to build a train will foul the second level inside main, forcing the train circling that main to stop occasionally.

2.  The reversing loops on both levels cross your open interior working part of the layout.  Please don't say you are planning to duck under those bridges to reach the south end of the layout.  At least plan for working manual lifts or drops there.

3.  This is the one I would think hardest about.  Leaving only nine inches between levels might be enough if all the trains on the lower level ran right along the front of the base (think right side here), but if you have a problem on the backside track as designed, you will have a long reach and maybe only a 3" clearance over positioned engines/cars that need to be re-railed.  Further, the yard on the right side may require more structural support for "unbending" operations, further complicating reach and clearance issues there.  Note that this is less of an issue on the left side since most of that lower level trackwork will be exposed, right?

4.  This comment is based on the assumption that scenery of some kind will hide the second level support under the yard.  Be sure to make it all easily removable for "ease of access" purposes as discussed in #3 above.

5.  Consider how you plan to support both the rise and the full upper level on the left side.  If you "enclose" all of that support, operators standing in the middle of your layout (particularly shorter operators) will have a hard time seeing what's going on with the lower level.  Of course, if you plan to operate remotely with one operator on the inside who controls the yard and upper levels and another operator on the outside who controls the lower level (including whatever else you plan for down there on the left side), then maybe this view issue goes away.

6.  Since you don't have any passing sidings planned currently, you will have to determine which of multiple operators controls the rising/lowering segment between the two levels.  Further, you might consider putting the rise/lower joining location on the second level on the opposite side of the crossover there (or just move the crossover south of the junction).  That way, a train coming up can immediately enter the correct track (assuming you are using right-hand running as the norm) while a train on any second level mainline track (running counter-clockwise) can exit the second level by going through the crossover and then through the level-change junction switch.

Just my 2 cents; keep the change.

Chuck

Last edited by PRR1950

Backdrops:

I saw your mention of using double face carpet tape.  I have used that for many years in the flooring industry.  It gets soft with warmth, heat rises to the ceiling, your tape will be up near the ceiling, you back drop may be on the tracks.

We used  Velcro tape held in place with rubber cement.  The seams were also done with rubber cement.  The back drop was able to be reused when the layout came down.

We use the premium backdrop material from Backdrop Warehouse, excellent material.  We find that the back drop installs best with full height Masonite backer.  I normally used 36" backdrop on 37" Masonite.

Backdrop Warehouse has a rather involved website but the product is superior to work with and the images do not appear as though they were shot with a panning camera.  The near and far views are realistic.

Hang your backdrop before you build against the wall.  I failed to do that once, never again!

Last edited by Tom Tee
@PRR1950 posted:

For my comments, I'm going to use left, right, top and bottom based on how your plans displayed above.

1.  As designed, you can have at least three trains running the loops, one on bottom and two on top.  However, since you have no designed yard lead, any switch engine working the yard to build a train will foul the second level inside main, forcing the train circling that main to stop occasionally.

2.  The reversing loops on both levels cross your open interior working part of the layout.  Please don't say you are planning to duck under those bridges to reach the south end of the layout.  At least plan for working manual lifts or drops there.

3.  This is the one I would think hardest about.  Leaving only nine inches between levels might be enough if all the trains on the lower level ran right along the front of the base (think right side here), but if you have a problem on the backside track as designed, you will have a long reach and maybe only a 3" clearance over positioned engines/cars that need to be re-railed.  Further, the yard on the right side may require more structural support for "unbending" operations, further complicating reach and clearance issues there.  Note that this is less of an issue on the left side since most of that lower level trackwork will be exposed, right?

4.  This comment is based on the assumption that scenery of some kind will hide the second level support under the yard.  Be sure to make it all easily removable for "ease of access" purposes as discussed in #3 above.

5.  Consider how you plan to support both the rise and the full upper level on the left side.  If you "enclose" all of that support, operators standing in the middle of your layout (particularly shorter operators) will have a hard time seeing what's going on with the lower level.  Of course, if you plan to operate remotely with one operator on the inside who controls the yard and upper levels and another operator on the outside who controls the lower level (including whatever else you plan for down there on the left side), then maybe this view issue goes away.

6.  Since you don't have any passing sidings planned currently, you will have to determine which of multiple operators controls the rising/lowering segment between the two levels.  Further, you might consider putting the rise/lower joining location on the second level on the opposite side of the crossover there (or just move the crossover south of the junction).  That way, a train coming up can immediately enter the correct track (assuming you are using right-hand running as the norm) while a train on any second level mainline track (running counter-clockwise) can exit the second level by going through the crossover and then through the level-change junction switch.

Just my 2 cents; keep the change.

Chuck

Lots of good insight here, Chuck. I appreciate it.

1. I plan on limiting to at most two trains and a switcher. There is a long siding on the first level down the right side so trains coming and going can pass. My intent was for the inner loop on the upper level to serve as a siding for the same purpose. You'll see in my next revision I've added a bit more room for the switcher to operate, but it may not completely avoid having to use some of the inner loop around the yard.

2. Next rev addresses this a bit as well. I moved one of my Atlas bridges to the crossover on the upper loopback, easy to make a swing up in that place. That will give me reach access to a good bit of the yard. The lower level crossing is now all tunnel so there will be a bit of a duck under to an access should I need to reach the end of the yard. I know, but compromises are sometime necessary.

3 and 4. Some points taken here also. I moved the lower level track on the right and the transition track a good foot or so closer to the middle. I plan on having open framing on the lower level that will be covered by the upper level, so access should be improved. The closest vertical separation between the upper level and transition track is in that bottom, right corner. I have that parameter limit set to 3" in anyRail and so far that cross under hasn't raised the alarm. I'll have to be real picky when I start building that track along the bottom.

5. I worked the track design to spread open distance between the upper level and lower level on the right side. I think that is going to be the location of whatever farm scene I come up with. That farmer may be plowing on a slope.

@Tom Tee posted:

Backdrops:

I saw your mention of using double face carpet tape.  I have used that for many years in the flooring industry.  It gets soft with warmth, heat rises to the ceiling, your tape will be up near the ceiling, you back drop may be on the tracks.

We used  Velcro tape held in place with rubber cement.  The seams were also done with rubber cement.  The back drop was able to be reused when the layout came down.

We use the premium backdrop material from Backdrop Warehouse, excellent material.  We find that the back drop installs best with full height Masonite backer.  I normally used 36" backdrop on 37" Masonite.

Backdrop Warehouse has a rather involved website but the product is superior to work with and the images do not appear as though they were shot with a panning camera.  The near and far views are realistic.

Hang your backdrop before you build against the wall.  I failed to do that once, never again!

Ok Tom, you're scaring me, good job! My basement rarely sees 72 degrees, it does get some service from the first floor a/c. That, and being a walkout, I don't see humidity much above 40% this time of year. The double sided tape I was considering is not the heat activated stuff. I would have done 36" masonite but recently I've only found the 3/16" sheets and they bow too easily. This 1/4" stuff at 4" wide will support 4 lbs without bowing when attached every 32". Nothing is in stone regarding hanging the backdrop and it may even be necessary to raise it an inch or so above what I have now.

I'm probably using the 3 scene, eastern mountains and hills category from Backdrop Warehouse. The length of the valance currently is just under 30'.

@Tom Tee posted:

Consider a subway level with a lot of pull through staging.  One can never have enough staging!  Trust me on this.  A potential regret down the road.

A lower level staging done early on is not much of a problem to build.

I almost missed this. If I consider moving the yard from the upper level to the lower level on the right side I may gain parking space and de-clutter the upper level.

This is my new job, Mark.   I've had the pleasure of turning down two contract recruiters this week.

I don't know how the weather was last evening were every one else lives but here in New England it was about the most beautiful evening one could hope to enjoy this far into summer. It was in the upper 60's, not a cloud in the sky. My wife and I enjoyed some live music from a local jazz group playing an outdoor set or two. I have a friend who is quite the accomplished trombonist who plays with this group so it was good to visit with friends as well.

I suppose some of my ideas for my layout are a little more developed than it seemed to me. Maybe because I'm mostly focused on building a foundation right now and only beginning to look ahead at what will things look like. As the mental image develops of what I'd like to see I realize what I don't know regarding scenery and what I need to research.

Don't you just love turning down those recruiters???   

@Mark Boyce posted:

Don't you just love turning down those recruiters??? 

Yes, and with a biiiiiiigggggg smile on my face.

@PRR1950 posted:

Dan, I think you said you were using Anyrail to design your plans.  Any chance you'd be willing to post track-plan files (old and new)?

Chuck

Yep, I lost the first rev but started keeping version directories. I'll post rev two first.

Attachments

I believe I'm converging on a track plan that I like. I've also stopped trying to keep up with what Atlas O track I have on hand while working on the plan. I'll sort that out later.

It's looking like the farmer will have to give up the bottom land for a hilltop farm. Still looking for a place for the two Atlas bridges.

Lots of hidden track but that's ok, I'm hoping this will give an impression of distance when the train is out of view. Grade is still around 2.4%.

turkey_hollow_rev4_lvl_1_trans

In this version the farm moves to the upper level and along the track on the top right side. A switcher can play without getting in the way for the most part. There is a bit of a traffic control challenge with timing trains accessing the inner/outer crossovers on the right. Looks like the majority of the layout will be around 50" off the floor, the lift table has fixed the lower level height.

turkey_hollow_rev4_upper



turkey_hollow_rev4

Attachments

Images (3)
  • turkey_hollow_rev4_lvl_1_trans
  • turkey_hollow_rev4_upper
  • turkey_hollow_rev4
Files (1)

I am sparing every one my track plan spasms from last year. I had track going through walls, through the shop on the other side of the basement and back out. Then there was a phase of dog bones that avoided an interior aisle. So you're seeing plan 33 or 34. 

Flex track for my purposes provides a means to reduce the number of track joints. I'm not into creating my own curves and I like that sectional curves can help align things. That said there are 5 or 6 pieces I will bend for this layout but they aren't particularly difficult. A couple of 5 degree bends and some transition pieces out of the Ross curved switches. And I would like to have some of the straights be not quite so straight. I'll be flexing, not really bending.

And if Atlas O track shows up by the time I reach that point it may all be Atlas, and a much more serious hit to my wallet.

It has been a little slow the last few weeks as I wait for items to show up. I have finalized the track plan, just a large folded loop with some passing sidings and a small yard. Yup, I'm a looper.

turkey_hollow_atlas_transition_and_lower_level

turkey_hollow_transition_and_upper_level

The lift table is working out very well, I'm happy with it. The access it provides has made working within the outer layout bench much easier when moving ladders, plywood, junk, etc. I've completed most of the sub-roadbed plywood and upper level framing across the table. I don't sense any imbalance during lift travel.

lift

lift_subroadbed

I finished up fitting the sub-roadbed around the west end. It will be mostly covered up with homosote and there will be a couple of tunnel portals coming around the corner. I'm not going to fasten the plywood down until I get the benches along the wall in place and do some final fitting.

subroadbed

transition_subroadbed

I have been holding off on the benches along the wall until I was able to get a backdrop up. I ordered a 3 scene, 36' backdrop from Backdrop Warehouse. I knew exactly what I wanted so once I figured out how to contact them it was only a few hours before I received a callback and placed my order. The tube showed up almost exactly two weeks later and my wife and I got them hung yesterday. They are aligned at the transitions but I'll wait at least a week to do the seams and the ends. They'll just hang for a while.

I love the backdrop, it came out just like I wanted but exposes the need for some more lighting.

backdropA

backdropB



Still looking to work in some bridges.

backdropC

Attachments

Dan

I "second the motion" of your decision to use ANYRAIL software for track planning. It's the product I used to create several layouts -- some for a local RR club and the current layout at Mottler Station. It offers more than enough features and tools for my skill level, and it has a handy feature of creating JPG files which can be shared with other hobbyists (as attachments to e-mails) for reference.  I've attached JPG files of the two levels of my layout as an example.

I know ... other hobbyists may favor RR TRACK or SCARM software, which have more "bells and whistles" built-in. Each to his/her own!

Mike Mottler   LCCA 12394

Attachments

Images (2)
  • MHM Layout, Level 1 as JPG: Lionel and MTH structures and action accessories.
  • MHM Layout, Level 2 as JPG: DEPT 56 North Pole Village lighted porcelain buildings; some are animated.
@Mark Boyce posted:

Dan, you’re welcome!  What kind of wood are you using?  It looks top notch!

It's arctic birch plywood that I rip down from 5' x  5' sheet. It is cabinet grade and makes for very uniform lumber with no voids. I use 3/4" (18mm) for the framing and 1/2" (12mm) for surface. It was cheaper than buying pine, but I've lost track of prices lately. I've seen about 30% jump in price for this plywood in the last three months. Fortunately I only need two more sheets of 3/4 to finish the first level benches.

Dan

I "second the motion" of your decision to use ANYRAIL software for track planning. It's the product I used to create several layouts -- some for a local RR club and the current layout at Mottler Station. It offers more than enough features and tools for my skill level, and it has a handy feature of creating JPG files which can be shared with other hobbyists (as attachments to e-mails) for reference.  I've attached JPG files of the two levels of my layout as an example.

I know ... other hobbyists may favor RR TRACK or SCARM software, which have more "bells and whistles" built-in. Each to his/her own!

Mike Mottler   LCCA 12394

I posted a couple of those jpeg exports here also.  I started with AnyRail 5 or 6 years ago when I was still not sure if I would do O or HO. I don't know what it may be missing that the other programs have, it will export a file for TrainPlayer but I've never been much interested in trying it. I believe it does cost more than the other programs.

It's arctic birch plywood that I rip down from 5' x  5' sheet. It is cabinet grade and makes for very uniform lumber with no voids. I use 3/4" (18mm) for the framing and 1/2" (12mm) for surface. It was cheaper than buying pine, but I've lost track of prices lately. I've seen about 30% jump in price for this plywood in the last three months. Fortunately I only need two more sheets of 3/4 to finish the first level benches.

I posted a couple of those jpeg exports here also.  I started with AnyRail 5 or 6 years ago when I was still not sure if I would do O or HO. I don't know what it may be missing that the other programs have, it will export a file for TrainPlayer but I've never been much interested in trying it. I believe it does cost more than the other programs.

It looks great!  It’s good you don’t need much more.

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