Type of motor in lionel engines

Don't know about this one, but I've found models with a large Canon motor and not the Pittman.  I'd prefer the Pittman, as I have had two of the Canon motors develop a direct short, one took out the Legacy electronics, the other only required a motor replacement.

 

ironlake I agree with you.  $6xx would have been a more appropriate price point for this loco.  Another bad point of this design, the worm gear is permanently pressed onto the motor shaft.  When the motor eventually fails, you can't just use any motor.  You will have to get a motor from Lionel with the exact matching worm gear.  Bad idea.

 

I said this on another thread but it bears repeating.  I'll take a big motor over whistle steam any day!  I passed on the Heavy Mikado because of the motor/drive train design. I'm sure you'll be finding them on auction sites for $6xx by December.

 

Gunrunner, why do you suppose the Canons are more prone to shorting out?  I also heard that Lionel had problems with the Buhler motors in their early Vision line offerings.  Some people feel the Canons run smoother.  What is it about Pittmans that makes them more rugged?

Don't know why the Pittman's work so well, I've only seen one with an issue, and that one was repairable.  You can actually open a Pittman up and replace the brushes if necessary, and even bearings.  The Canon (and most other small motors) are dead when they fail, no repair of any kind possible.

 

Thats an "image" in the catalog, not necessarily a guarantee of the finished product design. Looking at that catalog "image", and it appears  theres no advantage to having a small forward mounted motor. Lionels whistle steam unit is now merely tubing from the main smoke unit. IMO there would be more "room" with the motor rearward in the firebox.

 

I guess we won't know for sure until its delivered.

 

 I believe previous legacy offerings of K line stuff, were improved over the originals, maybe some improved more than others.

 

I have the legacy"k line" berkshire and it has a very large canon can motor in in the firebox. Its on a par with any of the pittman motored locos I own.

 

 

Of course there are some folks who've been running the old K Line steamers for years without issue.

 

 The webmaster himself has stated that a Canon is superior to a Pittman, FWIW.

 

The Buhler motor in my "second run" PM berk is the smoothest runner I have hands down.

 

I think motor size is only one part of the equation. Electronics design may be a factor as well. Additionally, Lionel has adopted K Lines "secondary reduction gear" gearbox which likely makes the motors job easier. 

 

At any rate I haven't seen a rash of failed Lionel motors here on the forum.....outside of smoke unit motors of course. 

 

The only VL motor issue I can think of was with regards to the 0-8-8-0. I don't think it had anything to do with motor brand as to the fact it was grossly underpowered for a large heavy articulated. A BIG mistake on Lionels part.

 

It would seem that Mike Reagan, now in charge of production would be knowledgable/ aware of motor requirements.

 

I wouldn't think of trying this with an entry level semi scale loco:

 

I've been heavy into scratch building locomotives and the cost of Pittman motors has increased. I'm NOT saying this is the reason, just what I've saw.  

 

I haven't had failures with either motor.  Knock on wood!

RickO it's true that Lionel improved the Lima B&A-style Berkshire when they reissued it two years ago.  And I was hoping they would use that same chassis for the Heavy Mikado.  So I made it a point to ask Lionel's folks at York last year, before the pre-order deadline.  Unfortunately I learned the picture in the catalog is correct- it will have the small motor canted forward.

 

None of K-Line's scale steam locos had name-brand motors in the firebox.  Maury Klein cut corners to crack the scale steam market at a $6xx price point.  Most of the locos with this design, especially the tall-drivered Hudson, required upgrading to PS2 or K-Line's 2nd-generation cruise control to provide performance on par with the established players. This forces those small motors to work very hard.  There are at least two reported failures in this application.  Search my name for another recent post on this subject.

 

As I have pointed out in both cases, it's not just the size and quality of the motor.  It's the fact that the worm gear is permanently installed on the motor shaft, so an exact replacement will be required.  Take apart any HO- or S-scale loco, even the 773.  For years, the best engineering practice in all scales is just not to build them this way.

 

The LionChief Plus Mikado in the video has the same motor and gear ratio as the just-released USRA Heavy.  That's an impressive demonstration (although I wouldn't pull so many cars up a grade with it on a regular basis.)  With street prices as low as $279 for the LionChief you can just buy another one when it fails.  I don't believe it was Mike Reagan's decision, but on a scale model at $1200 MSRP we should be getting something longer-lasting and potentially replaceable.

That may be his experience, my experience doesn't match that.

While the Legacy "K-Line" Berk got a bigger motor, the Legacy "K-Line" light mikado got the same small motor that was in the orginal K-Line engine. Interesting that Lionel's Mikado from 1999 with TMCC and wireless tether got a BIG Pittman. I think that thing will pull 50 cars with ease. We'll have to wait for the Heavy Mikados to find out whats inside.

Maybe Alex will take a screwdriver to his. Still waiting for mine.

 

Pete

How many engine has the webmaster repowered and what is his experience in rebuilding machbuchi motors to run like a cannon but not a pittman.  Pittmans are industrial motors and made to take it.  A 7 slot skewed armature turns without any coging (a feeling of wanting to flip to next slot when turning by hand) which shows up in super slow running.  I have a new mth premier sp gs4 with proto 3 and not sure what it has for a motor but would guess it is not a pittman.  I have two dcs engines with pittmans in them and they will both run very smooth at an incredible 1 scale mile per hour and the new gs 4 jerks a 1 smph.  Also if backing up a 1 scale mph to a 12 car passenger train the pittmans will not slow down when coupling but my proto 3 does and actually stops for a second for the cruise to catch up.  No real big deal as as 2 scale mph it is ok but still not super smooth until 3 scale miles per hour.  Any engine that costs in the 1000.00 and up price range should have a pittman, leave out whistle smoke or something or charge 30 bucks extra ( the price 3rd rail charges me for a pittman.

Well, with the whole new bto thing my plan all along is to leave it (and any future locos I may buy) sealed in the shipper until I see and hear someone elses,along with whatever problems may be discovered.

Then...if it's @$!#, it goes up for sale......but...not for $6×× though.