Understanding The York Train meet

If you want Postwar, go to the member halls (Blue, Silver, Red, White). There will be some Postwar in the dealer halls (Purple and Orange) but that is mostly modern stuff. 

I am mostly a modern guy that has grown to love and appreciate Postwar. Leave some for me...

What about the Brown hall?  I think that is also a dealer hall...no?????

Rick

RICKC posted:

What about the Brown hall?  I think that is also a dealer hall...no?????

Rick

Brown hall was closed several years ago. 

If at all possible, it would be best if you could attend on Friday. Sellers are told not to pack up early, but a good number of them do on Saturday. Also, there is some postwar in the dealer halls, as well.  I think most of the great deals are gone by Saturday (some would say gone by late Thursday). If I were looking for postwar in a limited time frame, my visit order might be red hall first, then blue, then silver, then white. 

Thanks guys.  I have to watch my spending so there should be at least one or two items left for you, SJC.....LOL

If you want the old stuff the Blue and Silver are probably the place to start, the last would be the Orange,and if you are going Saturday you can't waste time ,but you can save money. Also if you see it and you want it buy it. Good luck.

I've always had mixed feelings about when is a better time to attend a train meet.  As the saying goes, "The early bird gets the worm".   But what about the sellers who don't want to take home too much stuff ?   Can better deals be had near the end of the meet ?   Of course the pickings are slimmer then.  

Occasionally, on Saturday some dealers and members start dealing so they don't have to take all the stuff back with them.

From someone who lives 3000 miles away.... Saturday was a waste. Thurs or Friday are the days to go. I've been twice and don't see myself going back. Sure it was cool to check it once or twice, but I have to ship what I buy so there goes the great deals. If I lived a couple hours away....sure absolutely. It's really not something you can take it all in with just one day.... especially Saturday.

Check the meet flyer. Dealer halls are open 2 hours later on Saturday than the member halls. This is new. Plan your day accordingly. Member halls first, then dealer halls.

If you are looking for hard to find or rare post war the best time and place are the bandit meets on Monday and Tuesday. For more common post war it really doesn't matter as there is so much of it to choose from. For deals Saturday is best. The isles are pretty empty and the dealers still manning their tables are willing to deal. Friday morning is when the halls are packed and items easy to miss through the crowds.

Pete

If I had to choose one day, then it would be Friday.   Friday has the longest hours, I think 9 to 5, and pretty much everyone is still there and motivated.  On Saturday some table holders come in fairly late and start packing up.   Other table holders packed up and left Friday evening, arranging for the person next to them to cover their table(s) with merchandise.  Obviously, items purchased on Thursday and Friday will reduce what's available on Saturday.   

But, going on Saturday is better than nothing at all.  You just have to move really fast through the aisles.

Dan Padova posted:

   But what about the sellers who don't want to take home too much stuff ?  

My own feeling is, what is taking home a engine or three compared to the other 500 lbs of stuff you have to pack up? In fact, some sellers seem to WANT to take EVERYTHING home, based on their prices. Although I've only seen two Saturdays at the York meet, I think "Saturday bargains" are not worth the motel cost or cost of gas.

I agree that a seller at a flea market has a end-of-day incentive to get rid of a dining room table.

Have been there many times and agree that Thursday and Friday are the days where you will see the best selection.  Saturday always impressed me as a "wind down day". If you are in a buying mode York is a great train meet to find just about anything O gauge.  I have suggested that the ED open the dealer halls to the public on both of those days to maximize gate revenue but it remains to be seen whether or not they will heed that advise. 

I've always had mixed feelings about when is a better time to attend a train meet.  As the saying goes, "The early bird gets the worm".   But what about the sellers who don't want to take home too much stuff ?   Can better deals be had near the end of the meet ?   Of course the pickings are slimmer then.  

IMHO, both views are perfectly valid. I guess which view is correct for each of us depends on what we'd like to get at York.

Looking for specific items that are less common? - then be there for the beginning, and focus on finding what you are after. Don't waste time with casual browsing. You have competition, there are other people looking for that same item.

More into bargain hunting? - there will be some items that people are trying to clear out quickly at reduced prices, so you still might want to get there early. But if you go late, you might get some "I don't want to bring this home" bargains.

I am in the first group. If I cannot get there for the opening of any show, its not worth attending for me.

I have suggested that the ED open the dealer halls to the public on both of those days to maximize gate revenue but it remains to be seen whether or not they will heed that advise

Hopefully they will not. There has to be some advantage to being a member. For the TCA members who are into current stuff, being first in the dealer halls is a concrete advantage.

Look at the Lionel Warehouse sale. There is a public business giving first dibs to the MEMBERS of a private organization. Where is the outrage over that?

If they open to the public on Thursday then run the risk of alienating members.  The EDTCA in my opinion will have to provide a day that is members only.  Why else be in the club?  Yes my primary participation in the TCA is the York meet.  While I do enjoy the member halls my majority of participation is the dealer halls.  If Thursday is open to the public it's quite possible I'll no longer have much incentive to retain my membership.  I'm more than happy with the arrangement they made to balance the member and public time.  I think at least for now they made a good compromise.  I'll wait and see how it all works out before getting worrying about it.  I applaud the EDTCA for trying.  They deserve a lot of credit for making a change and probably no matter which way they went someone always thinks their idea is better.

As far as Saturday is concerned, the dealers, maybe not all, but many asked for this so they should be strictly held to the 4pm closing time.  Saturday will be the most popular day for the public so take advantage of it.

Look at the Lionel Warehouse sale. There is a public business giving first dibs to the MEMBERS of a private organization. Where is the outrage over that?

Interestingly enough we went last year as LCCA members.  And while we did "think" we were getting in early, Lionel had a friends and family time approx an hour before the LCCA time.  All I have to say is Lionel has a lot of friends and family.  Folks were walking out of there before the LCCA time with dolly full of product before we even stepped in the door.

Marty, couldn't have said it better.  My sentiments EXACTLY!  

David

And while we did "think" we were getting in early, Lionel had a friends and family time approx an hour before the LCCA time.

LOL, make that second dibs for LCCA members .

Here's a thought.  With all of the discussions back and forth about opening York to the public, did anyone ever bring up the idea of opening the entire meet to the public, but at the same time, let TCA members enjoy discounts across the board from all vendors ?

Its your thread Dan so let the drift begin. You didn't just open a can of worms. You opened up the whole worm factory. 

Pete

If York is a venue where dickering over train prices is almost expected, how can you guarantee a 'discount across the board from all vendors'? Been to York much?

Dan Padova posted:

Here's a thought.  With all of the discussions back and forth about opening York to the public, did anyone ever bring up the idea of opening the entire meet to the public, but at the same time, let TCA members enjoy discounts across the board from all vendors ?

Dan,

By opening the meet to the public, that's one administrative nightmare for the ED (in general) and security (i.e., monitoring that the public only visits dealer halls).  Offering discounts for TCA members only places another administrative burden on vendors -- not to mention eating into their profits.  On the surface, I don't see the overall value vs administrative burden, and I don't think it would sit well with the vendors. 

Honestly, it'll be interesting to see how opening Friday/Saturday to the general public will affect overall attendance numbers for the April 2017 York.  Once the ED reviews those numbers, they can decide if it was worth the "big experiment".   

At the end of the day, they might just decide it would have been easier to increase the York admission fee for TCA members by $5 or $10, and keep the meet as "members only".  I personally don't believe opening the meet to the general public is gonna make a significant impact on the bottom line.  All it might do is bring back some local folks (i.e., within an hour or perhaps two hours drive max) who opted to not renew their TCA membership and only were TCA members because they wanted to attend York in the first place.  Just a gut feel.  So we'll see soon enough.

David

This April I will be there from 12 noon to 5 pm Thursday only. I will cover all the halls a minimum of 2 times and I'm far from youthful - just keeping to the mission with an occasional bathroom break. In the past I have made several outstanding postwar purchases in the Orange and Purple halls. It goes to show that anything can happen at York.

Laidoffsick posted:

From someone who lives 3000 miles away.... Saturday was a waste. Thurs or Friday are the days to go. I've been twice and don't see myself going back. Sure it was cool to check it once or twice, but I have to ship what I buy so there goes the great deals. If I lived a couple hours away....sure absolutely. It's really not something you can take it all in with just one day.... especially Saturday.

 

When people I know go to this meet and brag about all the super deals they got from both individuals and dealers, I've always found it bizarre that anyone would keep their stuff for 6 months between meets and then sell it for extremely low prices. Couldn't they do that anytime?

Agree with you that cheaply priced stuff will be gone the first day. Even if it then sits in a new closet

Here's a thought.  With all of the discussions back and forth about opening York to the public, did anyone ever bring up the idea of opening the entire meet to the public, but at the same time, let TCA members enjoy discounts across the board from all vendors ?

Unfortunately, there are table holders in the member halls who are more or less running a business, should really be in a dealer hall, and can really be considered a vendor. But the whole idea of the member halls (and the purpose of the show itself) was to provide a venue for non-commercial member to member transactions. When the member table holders are looked at in that light, they are not vendors.

For a number of years I was a helper for a vendor in the Orange Hall.  I won't mention any names but those who know me know who I'm referring to.

One of the problems that the vendors have is dealing with the "bottom feeders" who, from day 1, will keep asking "can't you do any better than that."  You give someone your best price and they still say I''ll think about it or I'll be back.  You have no guarantee that they will be back and in most cases they don't.  

The guy I helped priced his stock to sell from day 1 but the vultures would come back day after day.  By Saturday, he would price much of his stock at or below his cost so as not to have to carry it back "home."  And you still get the "can't you do any better than that."  By then, you have reached the point that you want to tell someone "I'll take a sledge hammer to it before I sell it to you."

So, when you do your bargaining,  give the vendors a break.  Be straight up with them and I think you'll find them much more willing to work with you.

  By then, you have reached the point that you want to tell someone "I'll take a sledge hammer to it before I sell it to you."

LOL, I have told my wife on more than one occasion: If she decides to sell trains herself, that if someone is giving her a hard time with too much haggling that she should throw the item on the floor, stomp on it and say "Want it now?"

I cannot count the number of tales I've heard about people doing things like that.

TrainPop posted:

...

One of the problems that the vendors have is dealing with the "bottom feeders" who, from day 1, will keep asking "can't you do any better than that."  You give someone your best price and they still say I''ll think about it or I'll be back.  You have no guarantee that they will be back and in most cases they don't.  

The guy I helped priced his stock to sell from day 1 but the vultures would come back day after day.  By Saturday, he would price much of his stock at or below his cost so as not to have to carry it back "home."  And you still get the "can't you do any better than that."  By then, you have reached the point that you want to tell someone "I'll take a sledge hammer to it before I sell it to you."

So, when you do your bargaining,  give the vendors a break.  Be straight up with them and I think you'll find them much more willing to work with you.

 

We have a little of that behavior right here on the OGR Forum.    It's a SIN to see the unbelievably low prices some sellers have posted recently... yet STILL no sale.  And before anyone posts a wisecrack response to that, yes... I understand these things happen when we have a super-saturated market.  I've been saying there's a glut of toy trains on the market for years. 

But by the same token, when I post 4 Lionel #305 Hellgate Bridges at $275/each, that's a darn fair price on any day.  And guess what, the price ain't getting any cheaper unless somebody wants to negotiate a deal for all 4 of them.  And then MAYBE.  So yeah... I fully understand the point at which sellers might think, "I'll take a sledge hammer to it before I sell it to you."     In my case, I'd likely be more inclined to just keep the item in storage until somebody is ready to purchase it for a fair price though.

Bottom feeders come with the territory, but that doesn't imply sellers need to accommodate every request.  I have no problem telling a potential buyer to go pound sand (politely), if we both know the deal is heading into win-lose territory.

David

Good point, Trainpop.  I've sold at meets in the distant past and have had the same experience with buyers who want something for nothing.  Personally, I don't have that mindset as a buyer.  Yes, I usually ask if the vendor can do better and in almost every case they did.  

I recall a meet at Gilbertsville, Pa., where a vendor didn't price anything on his table.  Instead he asked potential buyers to make him an offer.  In most cases buyers, that I have seen, will offer a fair price.  So I tried that strategy at the next meet where I had a table and it worked for the most part.  

That said, as a buyer, I prefer to see prices on items.  We've discussed this topic in another thread somewhere.  I hate having to hunt down a seller to ask a price on an item.  

I recall a meet at Gilbertsville, Pa., where a vendor didn't price anything on his table.  Instead he asked potential buyers to make him an offer.

To each their own. I don't care whether items have price tags, but if the seller doesn't have a price, I walk on.

I have not been to York train meet but have seen the posters in York one time when I drove through there. I have been to the Hamburg PA train meet a couple of times and I like that one very much, and might go back this summer if I can get away from south Florida.

I grew up on the north side(Muhlenberg Township) of Reading PA so I know the area up by Leesport, Hamburg and Strasburg a bit. 

Lee Fritz

I go to York all three days. Whatever day I see something I like and can afford it, I'll buy it. When I run out of money I walk around and look. 

In the past, I've had some tight times and had only enough cash to spare to order my ticket. Guess what? I still had a great time. 

Go. Enjoy. Don't worry or bother about anything else. You're there for the trains, remember?

And, one of the top rules for York is that if you see something and want it, buy it right then and there. It will *not* be there when you go back after thinking about it, or thinking you can find another in better condition/price/etc.

Dan Padova posted:

Here's a thought.  With all of the discussions back and forth about opening York to the public, did anyone ever bring up the idea of opening the entire meet to the public, but at the same time, let TCA members enjoy discounts across the board from all vendors ?

Sounds good to me. I'll be saving those TCA yearly dues I've been paying all these years. And whose pockets  will the "discounts" be coming from?

Still that "pesky" tax issue concerning member sellers that has been explained to death.

Dan,

If it is Saturday only for you, get there by 9am. Start at the silver and blue halls as they are next to each other. Walk up to purple which should not take much time to look through and go to red which is nearby. White is next to red. Folks are willing to deal on a Saturday. Many have signs saying that, some have 50% off signs on their tables. You just need to know what you are looking for and have a feel of the price you are willing to pay for a certain piece. I've done well on Saturday. Had a gentleman beg me to buy his MTH turbine which I bought.

Those 4 halls in that order would be my suggestion for someone looking for postwar. Once you hit those, you should have time to navigate the Orange hall, very, very large hall.

As for folks buying, I always price stuff to sell. My comment back is that it is quite reasonable. Want to make a low ball insulting offer, I'll just keep the piece or like some said, throw it on the floor, break it and tell the bottom feeder, now you can have it for your ridiculous price.

Dave, $275 for a Hellgate bridge? Excellent price. Wished I had layout space for one.

Just my 1 cent worth! Lol!

I don't find any harm in asking if that's the best you can do?  Once the seller says yes I either buy it or walk away.  It never hurts to ask.