Will N&W 1218 be restored?

I doubt it but never say never. I think some of 1218's parts were lost not sure which one's. Hot Water probably knows.

1)We can't even get enough money to build the maintence building.

2)NS is now very anti-steam. The engine is not even allowed to run locally

3)Stupid city council moved the bus depot right in front of the museum eliminating the parking used for special events that the museum needs for funding.

4) The bus depot has brought a large amount of drug traffic to the front of the museum. Every morning the staff has to collect piles of used needles in front of the museum.  The museum has complained and the council said the museum should more tolerate of those who struggle with issues. They called the complaints racist.

Raising money to fund a train that was stripped of its insides, without anywhere to run it when the museum is struggling to stay afloat isn't going to happen.

Scott Smith

Anything is possible, and it wouldn't be as expensive of a restoration as most people think.....but you have to have somewhere to run it. Remember, Strasburg and Spencer were options long before the 611 was restored. Sad to say, but short of something changing for the positive in the near future, I see the end result of 611 going back on display in Roanoke. It's just hardly worth the effort for something that size if all you can do is run it on 4 miles of track. Find a place to run the engine enough to justify putting the money into it, you'll see 1218 under steam again. But you have to have the place to run it.

The 611 was returned to service to great fanfare here in Roanoke and now It can't run here anymore.  You have to go to Strasburg or Spencer to see her run.   I do not think money would be spent on an engine you cannot run anywhere.

@scott.smith posted:

Don't forget that a few months ago it was suggested to the state to bring the museum under state control. That could either make fund issues worse or better. I remember seeing some fans on FB asking if the museum would be relocated if such a take over happened.

Interested in what exactly happened to it's "insides"?  Saw it run in Chillicothe Ohio a while back and it was awesome.

Scott can answer this better than anyone which he pretty much has but I believe that parts were robbed off of 1218 for 611 and those parts were/are no longer available or can be reproduced. Again read Scott’s previous post.

@RJT posted:

Scott can answer this better than anyone which he pretty much has but I believe that parts were robbed off of 1218 for 611 and those parts were/are no longer available or can be reproduced. Again read Scott’s previous post.

They were not robbed for the 611. The 1218 was to be restored back in the late 80's or early 90's.  The president of NS Goode decided to end the program for safety concerns. He saw kids charging towards the locomotive as to arrived and thought it would lead to a disastrous event. The 1218 had already been broken down for the restoration. Instead of allowing the work to proceed he had the internal workings auctioned off. UP bought some of the parts.

Scott Smith

@scott.smith posted:

1)We can't even get enough money to build the maintence building.

2)NS is now very anti-steam. The engine is not even allowed to run locally

3)Stupid city council moved the bus depot right in front of the museum eliminating the parking used for special events that the museum needs for funding.

4) The bus depot has brought a large amount of drug traffic to the front of the museum. Every morning the staff has to collect piles of used needles in front of the museum.  The museum has complained and the council said the museum should more tolerate of those who struggle with issues. They called the complaints racist.

Raising money to fund a train that was stripped of its insides, without anywhere to run it when the museum is struggling to stay afloat isn't going to happen.

Scott Smith

unfortunate sign of the times Scott...try to hang in there   joe

Thanks Scott.  I understand now and remember that happening.  The weird thing is that we have more steam operational than ever but fewer places for it to run.  The one in Nashville, the SF steamer in Albuquerque, the list goes on.  Maybe they could all run with 1309 on WM?  261 has to run on short lines at this point.  4449 hasn't been out in forever.  Indeed, why restore more of them when the ones we have (save the 4014 and 844) can't stretch their legs?

@scott.smith posted:

1)We can't even get enough money to build the maintence building.

2)NS is now very anti-steam. The engine is not even allowed to run locally

3)Stupid city council moved the bus depot right in front of the museum eliminating the parking used for special events that the museum needs for funding.

4) The bus depot has brought a large amount of drug traffic to the front of the museum. Every morning the staff has to collect piles of used needles in front of the museum.  The museum has complained and the council said the museum should more tolerate of those who struggle with issues. They called the complaints racist.

Raising money to fund a train that was stripped of its insides, without anywhere to run it when the museum is struggling to stay afloat isn't going to happen.

Scott Smith

Sad, I’ve visited once but after reading this I’ll never visit again.  If the city won’t support their Heritage and the museum it may be time to take drastic measures.  Two options as I see it.  Move or dissolve the museum and sell the assets.

@Dougklink posted:

Interested in what exactly happened to it's "insides"?  Saw it run in Chillicothe Ohio a while back and it was awesome.

Short version.  In late 1991/early 1992, 1218 was torn down for an overhaul.  Then plan (as of Spring 1994) was that 1218 would be back for the 1996 season.  NS was planning for a flue extension for 611 in 1995, and then 1218 would return the following year.  The engine was still in the torn down state when the plug was pulled on the steam program in the fall of 1994.

Here's the current state from what I've been told...

Running gear work is finished.  Firebox was tack welded back in place.  Would need finishing.  Needs a front and/or rear tube sheet.  This isn't a big deal--611 got a new rear sheet in 2014.  Flues and tubes are gone.  They would need replacing anyways.  Less work to do.  Superheaters are gone.  This is probably the single most expensive thing to replace.  A few appliances were sold at the auction.  They can be replaced.  The engine was reassembled to the point that it looked good cosmetically.  A lot of extra parts were stored in a boxcar, which VMT has.

So if you want to run it.  Finish the firebox work.  Do your 1472.  Cut and flange 2 sheets.  Order tubes/flues and make new superheaters.  Source a few appliances.  There's probably a bit more, but it's not as bad as you think.  The knowledge and people are out there to do the work.  Oh...the biggest one...find some track where it can make enough money to justify doing the above work.  Strasburg and Spencer are not viable options to justify the cost of rebuilding it.

In the meantime, it's protected.  Visit the museum.  Give a donation.  Tomorrow may be a brighter day.

Well said.  Thanks!

@kgdjpubs posted:

The knowledge and people are out there to do the work.  Oh...the biggest one...find some track where it can make enough money to justify doing the above work.  Strasburg and Spencer are not viable options to justify the cost of rebuilding it.

In the meantime, it's protected.  Visit the museum.  Give a donation.  Tomorrow may be a brighter day.

This 100%.  VMT is great and a must-see for anyone visiting Roanoke.  It's in an urban center whose crime and drug problems pale in comparison to others (e.g., B & O Railroad Museum in Baltimore).  But there's a lot of cool stuff to do in and around Roanoke too.  Visit one of the many outstanding breweries immediately around the Museum -- VA and NC make some of the best craft beer in the country!  Drive up to Mill Mountain and see the Star and the city from the overlook.  Check out the restored Virginian station.  Stay at the Hotel Roanoke, N & W's crown jewel (Christmastime is especially magnificent).  Peek thru the fence at the Roanoke Shops (yep, still there for now, albeit shut down).  Venture out a little and drive on the Blue Ridge Parkway.  And of course, visit the O. Winston Link Museum too!

If / once there is a place to run 1218, the money will be there for its restoration.  It's not running on NS trackage any time soon, unless it's en route to go run somewhere else.

@scott.smith posted:

1)We can't even get enough money to build the maintence building.

2)NS is now very anti-steam. The engine is not even allowed to run locally

3)Stupid city council moved the bus depot right in front of the museum eliminating the parking used for special events that the museum needs for funding.

4) The bus depot has brought a large amount of drug traffic to the front of the museum. Every morning the staff has to collect piles of used needles in front of the museum.  The museum has complained and the council said the museum should more tolerate of those who struggle with issues. They called the complaints racist.

Raising money to fund a train that was stripped of its insides, without anywhere to run it when the museum is struggling to stay afloat isn't going to happen.

Scott Smith

Hang in there Scott.  There are many people all over the country who love the museum and its collections and most importantly the history of railroading in Roanoke.  The history of railroading *IS* the history of Roanoke, and that's not going to change. 

Why is NS so anti-steam?

@leonxu4198 posted:

Why is NS so anti-steam?

Liability.  The 1986 derailment of a 23 car passenger train pulled by 611 during an employee appreciation event injured 177 NS employees and their family members.  That was the beginning of the end for heritage steam under the modern NS.

No, it has nothing to do with that 1986 accident. NS ran a lot of steam in 2011 through 2015. I know…I ran a lot of it in NKP 765.

It is the nonsense surrounding PSR, which is supposed to mean “Precision Scheduled Railroading” but in reality is more like “Pretty Sh***y Railroading.” NS, and most of the other Class 1 railroads, are hurting for crews right now because so many people have left the industry because of PSR. In fact, NS is hurting for crews so bad that they approved for service a female conductor candidate who actually FELL OFF a moving freight car during training. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.

The railroads are entirely focused on improving shareholder value right now, while crews and customers are taking it on the chin. And many of their experienced crew people have simply left the industry and found other work.

@Rich Melvin posted:

No, it has nothing to do with that 1986 accident. NS ran a lot of steam in 2011 through 2015. I know…I ran a lot of it in NKP 765.

It is the nonsense surrounding PSR, which is supposed to mean “Precision Scheduled Railroading” but in reality is more like “Pretty Sh***y Railroading.” NS, and most of the other Class 1 railroads, are hurting for crews right now because so many people have left the industry because of PSR. In fact, NS is hurting for crews so bad that they approved for service a female conductor candidate who actually FELL OFF a moving freight car during training. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.

The railroads are entirely focused on improving shareholder value right now, while crews and customers are taking it on the chin. And many of their experienced crew people have simply left the industry and found other work.

To be clear, I said the 1986 accident was the beginning of the end of NS heritage steam, not the end.  And given your personal experience, obviously you would know more than me.  However, I will say that while you're correct about PSR, liability is intrinsically tied to shareholder value.  All it takes is one high-profile incident to make a very expensive mess for a Class I.  Ask the UP Steam Team about their biggest fear -- it's some moron running onto the track and getting hit, and having the whole shindig permanently cancelled because an idiot couldn't be bothered with following basic safety instructions.