UP 4014

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Can one purchase "Bunker C" fuel today?

Not easily, nor cheaply. Besides, the large oil burning steam locomotives, first began using #5 "power plant oil" back in the mid 1970s, such as the 4449 on the American Freedom Train. More than 15 years ago the change was made to reclaimed waste oil, and locomotives such as 4449, 844, 3985, and 3751 have been using that fuel ever since (except 844 which used #2 diesel fuel for a year, with resulting firebox damage).

With what would seemingly be a large supply of reclaimed waste oil around the country, one would question why diesel would have been used int he first place?  Maybe there is something I am unaware of, but it seems the waste oil would never have a shortage issue.

Also, at this point, having seen 3985 run, I would much rather see it back up and running along with 844 than the Big Boy.  As impressive as it would be to see the BB, it just seems like it was a lot of effort over nothing.  Glad they didn't take 4018 from Frisco, TX so I can at least take my kids to see one relatively close by.  There is no logical reason I can see to having brought the BB to Cheyenne with 3985 sitting in storage and perfectly operational.

TexasSP posted:

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Can one purchase "Bunker C" fuel today?

Not easily, nor cheaply. Besides, the large oil burning steam locomotives, first began using #5 "power plant oil" back in the mid 1970s, such as the 4449 on the American Freedom Train. More than 15 years ago the change was made to reclaimed waste oil, and locomotives such as 4449, 844, 3985, and 3751 have been using that fuel ever since (except 844 which used #2 diesel fuel for a year, with resulting firebox damage).

With what would seemingly be a large supply of reclaimed waste oil around the country, one would question why diesel would have been used int he first place?  Maybe there is something I am unaware of, but it seems the waste oil would never have a shortage issue.

Also, at this point, having seen 3985 run, I would much rather see it back up and running along with 844 than the Big Boy.  As impressive as it would be to see the BB, it just seems like it was a lot of effort over nothing.  Glad they didn't take 4018 from Frisco, TX so I can at least take my kids to see one relatively close by.  There is no logical reason I can see to having brought the BB to Cheyenne with 3985 sitting in storage and perfectly operational.

I heavily agree on this statement. The challenger is already a very impressive machine that can be taken almost anywhere on the UP. I'll say this again but if UP really wanted a big boy to run they should've grabbed 4023 before it went up to the lauritzen gardens on that massive hill off of I80. They had a perfect chance in 2001 when they had Steve Lee and crew help move it out of Kenefick. 

TexasSP posted:

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Can one purchase "Bunker C" fuel today?

Not easily, nor cheaply. Besides, the large oil burning steam locomotives, first began using #5 "power plant oil" back in the mid 1970s, such as the 4449 on the American Freedom Train. More than 15 years ago the change was made to reclaimed waste oil, and locomotives such as 4449, 844, 3985, and 3751 have been using that fuel ever since (except 844 which used #2 diesel fuel for a year, with resulting firebox damage).

With what would seemingly be a large supply of reclaimed waste oil around the country, one would question why diesel would have been used int he first place?  Maybe there is something I am unaware of, but it seems the waste oil would never have a shortage issue.

The truth of what happened, and why the change to "readily available #2 locomotive diesel fuel".

1) The current manager got into an argument with one of the waste oil sully company's truck drivers. It seems the current manager wanted the truck driver to "go up on top of the tender, and watch when the oil bunker was full". The truck driver refused as, that was NOT his responsibility, as there was ALWAYS a member, or two, of the Mechanical Crew present to haul the oil hose up to the top of the tender, with a rope, then hook up the cam-lock fitting on the oil hose to the cam-lock fitting adapter on the lid of the oil bunker tank. The steam crew member would then monitor the big "dip-stick", so as to know when to yell down to the truck driver to shut off the waste oil flow and NOT overfill the fuel bunker.

2) The current manager thought that it would be much easier to simply obtain "free #2 locomotive fuel" from any nearby UP diesel shop, instead of dealing with all the "hassles" from "uncooperative oil truck drivers". He was told by many, many, many people in the steam locomotive field that using #2 diesel fuel, over a long period of time, would be detrimental to the firebox interior sheets, on a locomotive as large as 844.

 

Also, at this point, having seen 3985 run, I would much rather see it back up and running along with 844 than the Big Boy.  As impressive as it would be to see the BB, it just seems like it was a lot of effort over nothing.  Glad they didn't take 4018 from Frisco, TX so I can at least take my kids to see one relatively close by.  There is no logical reason I can see to having brought the BB to Cheyenne with 3985 sitting in storage and perfectly operational.

So there is space in the fuel part of the tender to allow for "sloshing"?

Dominic Mazoch posted:

So there is space in the fuel part of the tender to allow for "sloshing"?

The various baffles tend to dampen that, as the fuel level reduces. 

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Is that radio "narrow" banded?

Yes.

From: <jeanne@cheyenne.org>

March 30, 2016

To me: Hello Gary,

This year Cheyenne Frontier Days will be July 22-31.  The Union Pacific’s steam engine 844 will be running this year for Frontier Days. The 4014 will not be ready yet.

http://www.cheyenne.org/

trainroomgary posted:

From: <jeanne@cheyenne.org>

March 30, 2016

To me: Hello Gary,

This year Cheyenne Frontier Days will be July 22-31.  The Union Pacific’s steam engine 844 will be running this year for Frontier Days. The 4014 will not be ready yet.

http://www.cheyenne.org/

How much money are you willing to bet that 844 will actually be on the Frontier Days Special?

From: <jeanne@cheyenne.org>

March 30, 2016

To me: Hello Gary,

This year Cheyenne Frontier Days will be July 22-31.  The Union Pacific’s steam engine 844 will be running this year for Frontier Days. The 4014 will not be ready yet.

http://www.cheyenne.org/

No Thank-you "HOT WATER" - You have no photo on the OGR Forum, so I do not bet with strangers and you turn off your "OGR Forum Red Dot" = Status on Forum.  I have no idea who you are or where you are............ 

trainroomgary posted:

 

No Thank-you "HOT WATER" - You have no photo on the OGR Forum, so I do not bet with strangers and you turn off your "OGR Forum Red Dot" = Status on Forum.  I have no idea who you are or where you are............ 

So,,,,,did you happen to view my person profile? How about the OGR "Great Layout Adventures, Volume 8"?

If you don't know who I am, then YOU have not been paying attention!

Again,,,,,,,,do you REALLY believe that UP 844 will be on the Cheyenne Frontier Day's Special, this coming July? 

Hot Water posted:

How much money are you willing to bet that 844 will actually be on the Frontier Days Special?

Oh boy is that a loaded question....I'm going with a big negative.

I wouldn't bet Bill Gates paycheck on 844 being ready for frontier days

Hot Water posted

So,,,,,did you happen to view my person profile? How about the OGR "Great Layout Adventures, Volume 8"?

If you don't know who I am, then YOU have not been paying attention!

Again,,,,,,,,do you REALLY believe that UP 844 will be on the Cheyenne Frontier Day's Special, this coming July? 

Hi Hot Water: Yes as of todays date I feel that the Union Pacific Steam Team, will have the 844 done for Cheyenne Frontier Days.  I trust 

Jeanne <jeanne@cheyenne.org> at  http://www.cheyenne.org/

Just a little side bar: my wife and her family are from Colorado and we have spent a lot of time in the Great State of Wyoming. I do not have the OGR "Great Layout Adventures #8". With over 2000 model railroaders on You Tube, I no long buy DVD's, it is all for free on You Tube. If you are on YT, please leave me a link, and I will take a look.

Yes: I know who you are, been talking to you for years. I just was shaking your bucket of railroad spikes and your kool-Aid.

Gary

Just one more thing, for all you guys that want to take bets. You better get over to “Google” and do some reading.

Union Pacific Railroad and their donors are going to lay temporary tracks on 5th. Street, Cheyenne. The 844 will come on its own power or come down the main drag with a modern diesel pulling and pushing the Historic 844 for Cheyenne Frontier Days, 2016.

Good Luck - Gary

Pride goeth before the fall . . . . Yikes !!!

Hot Water posted:

trainroomgary posted:

 

No Thank-you "HOT WATER" - You have no photo on the OGR Forum, so I do not bet with strangers and you turn off your "OGR Forum Red Dot" = Status on Forum.  I have no idea who you are or where you are............ 

So,,,,,did you happen to view my person profile? How about the OGR "Great Layout Adventures, Volume 8"?

If you don't know who I am, then YOU have not been paying attention!

Again,,,,,,,,do you REALLY believe that UP 844 will be on the Cheyenne Frontier Day's Special, this coming July? 

And his favorite song is Carly Simon's "You're So Vain".

Notes:

1.  No total eclipse of the sun forcasted.

2.  Not that the 844 will be "pushed" by diesels.  The post gives the pssibility that the 844 will be non-powered!   That post is like Yogi's line:  If you come to a fork, take it!

Well, if the current manager is not up to the task we should all be encouraging his foolish escapades. The sooner the makes a public embarrassment of himself and the Union Pacific the sooner they will get rid of him and put a more qualified person at the helm

Question to fellow rail fans: What percentage of you find it satisfying to see a steam locomotive "operating" as a diesel (s) is pushing and/or pulling it?

In answer to your question, if a Steam Locomotive is not operating under it's own power, I won't go to see it. It is just another Museum Queen.

I vote no.  Steve Lee never needed a helper.  those darn things   8444  3985  have incredible power too spare per original design.

Doesnt 844 have a stripped down boiler right now?

Matt Makens posted:

Doesnt 844 have a stripped down boiler right now?

Pretty much, yes. They are attempting to put it back together now.

It took a lot longer than 4 months to do that to 261

Matt Makens posted:

It took a lot longer than 4 months to do that to 261

True, but then the 261 crew were volunteers and knew what they were doing. Just like the N&W 611 crew, and the SP 4449 crew.

trainroomgary posted:

From: <jeanne@cheyenne.org>

March 30, 2016

To me: Hello Gary,

This year Cheyenne Frontier Days will be July 22-31.  The Union Pacific’s steam engine 844 will be running this year for Frontier Days.

This is funny. One of those "define" things, as in "Define 'running.'" And it would make a fairly good "pulled one over on you" kind of statement.

"...will be running this year at Frontier Days," then, means being pushed on temporary tracks down a street in Cheyenne by a diesel engine. So "running" just means that something is making the wheels turn.

I'd think highly of Jeanne if she had made this statement intentionally as a joke.

But, alas, undoubtedly she didn't.  

So, the boiler is going back together!

How about the flat spots on the engine wheels, as I believe that would be more than a mere "Pit Stop"!.......

But hey, we got "Chrome on the Throttle Handle", so all is well!

Brandy posted:

So, the boiler is going back together!

How about the flat spots on the engine wheels, as I believe that would be more than a mere "Pit Stop"!.......I don't know, just askin!...........

That "event" was more than 3 years ago, down in Texas. The four drive wheels were removed, shipped out for tire turning, received back and re-installed; all down in Texas.

breezinup posted:

trainroomgary posted:

From: <jeanne@cheyenne.org>

March 30, 2016

To me: Hello Gary,

This year Cheyenne Frontier Days will be July 22-31.  The Union Pacific’s steam engine 844 will be running this year for Frontier Days.

This is funny. One of those "define" things, as in "Define 'running.'" And it would make a fairly good "pulled one over on you" kind of statement.

"...something iwill be running this year at Frontier Days," then, means being pushed on temporary tracks down a street in Cheyenne by a diesel engine. So "running" just means that s making the wheels turn.

I'd think highly of Jeanne if she had made this statement intentionally as a joke.

But, alas, undoubtedly she didn't.  

You've got to be "Sh*iting me", that would get the UP laughed out of the Railroad Industry! 

trainroomgary posted:

Just one more thing, for all you guys that want to take bets. You better get over to “Google” and do some reading.

Union Pacific Railroad and their donors are going to lay temporary tracks on 5th. Street, Cheyenne. The 844 will come on its own power or come down the main drag with a modern diesel pulling and pushing the Historic 844 for Cheyenne Frontier Days, 2016.

Good Luck - Gary

Ok, I'll bite.....got a link to Google proof for this (insane) claim?

FWIW, I did some Googling and got nothing about this.....

Hot Water posted:

Brandy posted:

So, the boiler is going back together!

How about the flat spots on the engine wheels, as I believe that would be more than a mere "Pit Stop"!.......I don't know, just askin!...........

That "event" was more than 3 years ago, down in Texas. The four drive wheels were removed, shipped out for tire turning, received back and re-installed; all down in Texas.

Hot Water, that's great to hear, and I'm glad that one is behind them. I got from reading some of these posts, that job was still on the table to do! 

3 years ago, did the then "steam team " do the honors, or was it out shopped? 

Why do some of you guys feel that Union Pacific "owes you" operating steam locomotive performances? 

From the standpoint of company politics, UP is very likely stalling on the "unnecessary" steam program because restoration work could be subject to criticism from employees and former employees who are being affected by major work force reductions. Investors would be critical of an unnecessary program at a time when revenues are down and the future clouded.

The steam program is an expendable sideshow. If they can't be assured of a perfect performance and positive PR with a steam loco on their turf, for whatever reason, they are going to not run it.

Ace posted:

Why do some of you guys feel that Union Pacific "owes you" operating steam locomotive performances? 

From the standpoint of company politics, UP is very likely stalling on the "unnecessary" steam program because restoration work could be subject to criticism from employees and former employees who are being affected by major work force reductions. Investors would be critical of an unnecessary program at a time when revenues are down and the future clouded.

The steam program is an expendable sideshow. If they can't be assured of a perfect performance and positive PR with a steam loco on their turf, for whatever reason, they are going to not run it.

OK than,,,,,,just why are they still spending HUGE amounts of money on the steam shop work force and materials for 844? 

Hot Water posted:

Ace posted:

Why do some of you guys feel that Union Pacific "owes you" operating steam locomotive performances? 

From the standpoint of company politics, UP is very likely stalling on the "unnecessary" steam program because restoration work could be subject to criticism from employees and former employees who are being affected by major work force reductions. Investors would be critical of an unnecessary program at a time when revenues are down and the future clouded.

The steam program is an expendable sideshow. If they can't be assured of a perfect performance and positive PR with a steam loco on their turf, for whatever reason, they are going to not run it.

OK than,,,,,,just why are they still spending HUGE amounts of money on the steam shop work force and materials for 844? 

Define "huge", and your source of information.

There's no such thing as a small amount of money spent on a steam locomotive restoration.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

There's no such thing as a small amount of money spent on a steam locomotive restoration.

Rusty

Right. The labor alone, what with 10 or 12 employees working 12 hour days 6 and/or 7 days a week.

Rusty Traque posted:

There's no such thing as a small amount of money spent on a steam locomotive restoration.

Rusty

Hot Water posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

There's no such thing as a small amount of money spent on a steam locomotive restoration.

Rusty

Right. The labor alone, what with 10 or 12 employees working 12 hour days 6 and/or 7 days a week.

Actual numbers? And sources of information?

I can try to get t an actual cost of the boiler rebuild on 261. My girlfriend is very good friends with her owner and he may give up that info

Brandy posted:

You've got to be "Sh*iting me", that would get the UP laughed out of the Railroad Industry! 

You mean for a second time -- the first time being their negligent actions which destroyed the interior workings of 844.  

Ace posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

There's no such thing as a small amount of money spent on a steam locomotive restoration.

Rusty

Hot Water posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

There's no such thing as a small amount of money spent on a steam locomotive restoration.

Rusty

Right. The labor alone, what with 10 or 12 employees working 12 hour days 6 and/or 7 days a week.

Actual numbers? And sources of information?

Waste oil goes for 0.25-0.50 a gallon, that's $1500-$3000 just to fill the tender bunker once for starters.

You can do the math on the labor, http://www.railserve.com/Railr...cupations_wages.html

But figure at least $1400 for one man for one 6 day week, not including overtime or Ed's salary, multiplied over the number of days of the restoration.

Then there's all the raw and finished material needed and shiny new tools Ed bought.

Rusty