Here is the latest RRTrack Plan which includes scenery
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Can you include the RRTrack file? Looks like you have a reach greater than 6 feet to the rear of the coal mine area unless there is a walkway or pop-up back there.
Steve
Steve
quote:Originally posted by KnobKnee:
Can you include the RRTrack file? Looks like you have a reach greater than 6 feet to the rear of the coal mine area unless there is a walkway or pop-up back there.
Steve
Thanks Steve for taking time to review and respond. Appreciate it.
Would be a little hard and can probably add the pop-up. Any ideas for Tinplate City? Here is the RRTrack plan. I think I have added subway ("L" Train) on far right since I posted the .jpg last night.
By the way: Originally from Muncie, Ball State Grad, moved to Florida to work for Disney 21 yrs ago. Retired and enjoying life.
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Files (1)
Do you have some Dept 56 or Thomas Kincaid buildings? We have a bunch of Thomas Kincaid Christmas Village buildings that I'm putting on my upper level on the KnobKnee-Boredom RR (see my thread). Are you going to run a trolley on the Super Streets? I started over and so far have not put my trolley line back in the Christmas village but may have to squeeze it in.
I'm not a tinplate guy so no help there. I run all scale Diesel from 1940 - 1965.
I lived and worked in Connersville in the late 60's but am from New Albany.
Steve
I'm not a tinplate guy so no help there. I run all scale Diesel from 1940 - 1965.
I lived and worked in Connersville in the late 60's but am from New Albany.
Steve
Wow Steve, 20 x 50 ! I wish I had that kind of room. You didn't state if you had an interest in a particular RR or area you are going to model so I'll just point some things out from a general operations perspective. The first thing I noticed was the placement of the Turn-table. Though I agree having access to both sides of a feature like that is a plus,It seems to serve no purpose where it is. I'd say a TT needs to be connected to a railyard of some sort or a passenger station. If it were me, I'd strive to connect it to the end of a railyard and a engine facility. Try to make it a FUNCTIONAL part of the layout and not just a neat feature.
I also noticed you run track parallel with the rooms walls a great deal and you are very close to them as well. Two things I would suggest you avoid as much as possible.I also don't see why with such a large room you should need to resort to the "Bent Dog-bone" in any way shape or form. If you noticed the Cherry Valley layout doesn't employ it at all and for good reason. I have seen the Cherry Valley and it has a 12' min dia for its track. That enables them to be "more" prototypical in the way the layout looks and functions.BTW for tose of you who havent seen the Cherrey Valley layout I suggest doing so if you can,Its a great 2-rail scale layout!
Steve I don't mean to pick these are just suggestions take-em or leave-em.
Gizzmo ON the waterfront
I also noticed you run track parallel with the rooms walls a great deal and you are very close to them as well. Two things I would suggest you avoid as much as possible.I also don't see why with such a large room you should need to resort to the "Bent Dog-bone" in any way shape or form. If you noticed the Cherry Valley layout doesn't employ it at all and for good reason. I have seen the Cherry Valley and it has a 12' min dia for its track. That enables them to be "more" prototypical in the way the layout looks and functions.BTW for tose of you who havent seen the Cherrey Valley layout I suggest doing so if you can,Its a great 2-rail scale layout!
Steve I don't mean to pick these are just suggestions take-em or leave-em.
Gizzmo ON the waterfront
quote:Originally posted by KnobKnee:
Do you have some Dept 56 or Thomas Kincaid buildings? We have a bunch of Thomas Kincaid Christmas Village buildings that I'm putting on my upper level on the KnobKnee-Boredom RR (see my thread). Are you going to run a trolley on the Super Streets? I started over and so far have not put my trolley line back in the Christmas village but may have to squeeze it in.
I'm not a tinplate guy so no help there. I run all scale Diesel from 1940 - 1965.
I lived and worked in Connersville in the late 60's but am from New Albany.
Steve
Yes, I have several Dept 56 buildings and using them in the SW corner of layout along with the SuperStreets or equivalent. Will be adding a trolley just not sure where yet. Sorry to have mislead by calling the one area Tinplate City. My grandson (8) loves two types of trains, Steamers and Tinplates. Not real fond of Diesels. So, I put glass shelves around ceiling (9') and have Standard Gauge track running a loop with one simple passing track in front of station. In addition the grandson wanted the MTH Blue Streak and Christmas Train both tinplate O gauge. I should have made it clearer but I don't know what to do yet in Tinplate City, but it won't be all tinplate stuff, if any.
I just now saw your posting involving your layout. It appears like you are having many of the same issues I have had over the last year. It can be very frustrating at times. Since I am not close to a train group I haven't had the opportunity to participate or even watch an operational session. As one member suggested, he has learned much from doing so. I really like your island approach, very similar to my major yard. This provides plenty of room for aisle and accessibility. I know I will need one or two pop ups when I finally determine where the mountains will be. Trying to get the track work / operational functionality completed first. Are you pretty comfortable with you final posting of your layout?
I'll have to admit, I do have some tinplate operating accessories planned for the layout! My grandchildren love pushing the buttons! Your tinplate area might be a good place for a Circus.
I am more comfortable now with this layout than any I've designed in the past year and a half. But, it's a radical departure for me so I'm hoping to get more input from those wiser than I before I start laying track.
Steve
I am more comfortable now with this layout than any I've designed in the past year and a half. But, it's a radical departure for me so I'm hoping to get more input from those wiser than I before I start laying track.
Steve
quote:Originally posted by KnobKnee:
I'll have to admit, I do have some tinplate operating accessories planned for the layout! My grandchildren love pushing the buttons! Your tinplate area might be a good place for a Circus.
I am more comfortable now with this layout than any I've designed in the past year and a half. But, it's a radical departure for me so I'm hoping to get more input from those wiser than I before I start laying track.
Steve
Thats good, because at the end of the day you are the one that has to be happy with it. But I, like you, are trying to get the best advise and ideas as possible before starting. I have 26 sheets of 3/4 cabinet grade birch and I don't know how many 1x2, 1x4's, and 2x3's. I have over $8K of track, including 62 switches just waiting for a layout design to be completed.
Simple question. Looking at my layout does it appear to be too busy with track? It seems to me like plenty of room for scenery, but having never done a large layout, not sure. Did you simplify track as you moved to the layout design you have now?
By the way you can see room with glass shelves and Standard Gauge track here:
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve...11056622/m/678109634
GSN1
You made a good choice with ScaleTrax, you should be very happy with the result. There are have been some very helpful tips on the forum about working with ScaleTrax flex and tuning the switches. If you don't already have them, I highly recommend Rich Battista's videos. You might also enjoy following the progress of the Northwest Trunk Lines, a very large Sccaletrax layout being built in the Seattle are by my brother Dave. I have built a few custom switches for the NWTL and have been the dispatcher or Yardmaster at the operating sessions.
I have only taken a quick look at your design but will offer a few thoughts based on that and the previous discussion on this thread.
You are concerned about your layout being too busy. Good for you! If you are thinking that way you are miles ahead of many of us and are unlikely to become a spaghetti chef.
Keep the look you desire in mind as you think about what you want scenically and operationally.
There have been some very good comments here already. I'll second two of them. First, mainlines parallel to the walls are not very scenically interesting. Rich Melvin started a good thread on just that topic. Second, a roundhouse and associated engine service facilities are usually located adjacent to a yard. Rich's thread on switching leads might be good reading too. Right now it looks like your yard lead is quite a bit shorter than your yard tracks. You will foul the yellow mainline if you are switching the yard.
To get a better idea of what you would like and what you need to operate your equipment could you tell us more about your present collection or what equipment you would like to get in the future? What locomotives do you have or do you want to get? What is your freight and passenger car fleet like? How many cars do you have and how big are they? Your yard looks to be large enough for about one hundred 40 foot freight cars OR about sixty 72 foot passenger cars. Is that enough for what you have? Do you want to use your yard as a working yard or is it just on-layout car storage?
You have mentioned operating. On most larger layouts that means running a mix of through freight and passenger trains with local freights serving industries. What industries (or operating accessories) do you want to depict and what type and how many cars will they need? What length passenger and freight trains do you want to run? Picking a maximum typical train length can be used set siding and yard track length. If you have 10 car passenger sets pulled by A-B-A or A-B-B-A E or F units that can be a good length to work with as it allows respectable sized freight trains as well.
Reach in will also be a consideration in some areas of the plan you have now. Thirty inches is a good goal, 36 inches can be OK, especially if you are taller or it is an area with little or simple track where derailments will be infrequent. Duckunders can be useful and not too unfriendly if you have a relatively high track height but they never get easier to use as time passes.
You may want to consider reducing the depth of the benchwork around the perimeter of your layout and having a wider center peninsula with yards and engine facilities including your turntable and roundhouse. This solution works very on the NWTL and lengthens the mainline run while allowing a less busy track plan around the perimeter for an emphasis on the scenery.
You have a great space to work with and it sounds like many of your inclinations are in directions that can lead to realistic operation and long term enjoyment. Keep us posted as your thinking develops. I can guarantee that you will receive plenty of advice, some of which may even prove helpful.
You made a good choice with ScaleTrax, you should be very happy with the result. There are have been some very helpful tips on the forum about working with ScaleTrax flex and tuning the switches. If you don't already have them, I highly recommend Rich Battista's videos. You might also enjoy following the progress of the Northwest Trunk Lines, a very large Sccaletrax layout being built in the Seattle are by my brother Dave. I have built a few custom switches for the NWTL and have been the dispatcher or Yardmaster at the operating sessions.
I have only taken a quick look at your design but will offer a few thoughts based on that and the previous discussion on this thread.
You are concerned about your layout being too busy. Good for you! If you are thinking that way you are miles ahead of many of us and are unlikely to become a spaghetti chef.
Keep the look you desire in mind as you think about what you want scenically and operationally.There have been some very good comments here already. I'll second two of them. First, mainlines parallel to the walls are not very scenically interesting. Rich Melvin started a good thread on just that topic. Second, a roundhouse and associated engine service facilities are usually located adjacent to a yard. Rich's thread on switching leads might be good reading too. Right now it looks like your yard lead is quite a bit shorter than your yard tracks. You will foul the yellow mainline if you are switching the yard.
To get a better idea of what you would like and what you need to operate your equipment could you tell us more about your present collection or what equipment you would like to get in the future? What locomotives do you have or do you want to get? What is your freight and passenger car fleet like? How many cars do you have and how big are they? Your yard looks to be large enough for about one hundred 40 foot freight cars OR about sixty 72 foot passenger cars. Is that enough for what you have? Do you want to use your yard as a working yard or is it just on-layout car storage?
You have mentioned operating. On most larger layouts that means running a mix of through freight and passenger trains with local freights serving industries. What industries (or operating accessories) do you want to depict and what type and how many cars will they need? What length passenger and freight trains do you want to run? Picking a maximum typical train length can be used set siding and yard track length. If you have 10 car passenger sets pulled by A-B-A or A-B-B-A E or F units that can be a good length to work with as it allows respectable sized freight trains as well.
Reach in will also be a consideration in some areas of the plan you have now. Thirty inches is a good goal, 36 inches can be OK, especially if you are taller or it is an area with little or simple track where derailments will be infrequent. Duckunders can be useful and not too unfriendly if you have a relatively high track height but they never get easier to use as time passes.
You may want to consider reducing the depth of the benchwork around the perimeter of your layout and having a wider center peninsula with yards and engine facilities including your turntable and roundhouse. This solution works very on the NWTL and lengthens the mainline run while allowing a less busy track plan around the perimeter for an emphasis on the scenery.
You have a great space to work with and it sounds like many of your inclinations are in directions that can lead to realistic operation and long term enjoyment. Keep us posted as your thinking develops. I can guarantee that you will receive plenty of advice, some of which may even prove helpful.
quote:Originally posted by Ted Hikel:
GSN1
You made a good choice with ScaleTrax, you should be very happy with the result. There are have been some very helpful tips on the forum about working with ScaleTrax flex and tuning the switches. If you don't already have them, I highly recommend Rich Battista's videos. You might also enjoy following the progress of the Northwest Trunk Lines, a very large Sccaletrax layout being built in the Seattle are by my brother Dave. I have built a few custom switches for the NWTL and have been the dispatcher or Yardmaster at the operating sessions.
I have only taken a quick look at your design but will offer a few thoughts based on that and the previous discussion on this thread.
You are concerned about your layout being too busy. Good for you! If you are thinking that way you are miles ahead of many of us and are unlikely to become a spaghetti chef.
There have been some very good comments here already. I'll second two of them. First, mainlines parallel to the walls are not very scenically interesting. Rich Melvin started a good thread on just that topic. Second, a roundhouse and associated engine service facilities are usually located adjacent to a yard. Rich's thread on switching leads might be good reading too. Right now it looks like your yard lead is quite a bit shorter than your yard tracks. You will foul the yellow mainline if you are switching the yard.
To get a better idea of what you would like and what you need to operate your equipment could you tell us more about your present collection or what equipment you would like to get in the future? What locomotives do you have or do you want to get? What is your freight and passenger car fleet like? How many cars do you have and how big are they? Your yard looks to be large enough for about one hundred 40 foot freight cars OR about sixty 72 foot passenger cars. Is that enough for what you have? Do you want to use your yard as a working yard or is it just on-layout car storage?
You have mentioned operating. On most larger layouts that means running a mix of through freight and passenger trains with local freights serving industries. What industries (or operating accessories) do you want to depict and what type and how many cars will they need? What length passenger and freight trains do you want to run? Picking a maximum typical train length can be used set siding and yard track length. If you have 10 car passenger sets pulled by A-B-A or A-B-B-A E or F units that can be a good length to work with as it allows respectable sized freight trains as well.
Reach in will also be a consideration in some areas of the plan you have now. Thirty inches is a good goal, 36 inches can be OK, especially if you are taller or it is an area with little or simple track where derailments will be infrequent. Duckunders can be useful and not too unfriendly if you have a relatively high track height but they never get easier to use as time passes.
You may want to consider reducing the depth of the benchwork around the perimeter of your layout and having a wider center peninsula with yards and engine facilities including your turntable and roundhouse. This solution works very on the NWTL and lengthens the mainline run while allowing a less busy track plan around the perimeter for an emphasis on the scenery.
You have a great space to work with and it sounds like many of your inclinations are in directions that can lead to realistic operation and long term enjoyment. Keep us posted as your thinking develops. I can guarantee that you will receive plenty of advice, some of which may even prove helpful.
Thank you so much for looking at the layout, I really do respect your time and enjoy your feedback / suggestions. I hope I have addressed your questions detailed enough and look forward to hearing from you.
I am really excited about using ScaleTrax and Rich’s videos were most instrumental in that decision.
I get your point about straight runs along the wall. This is one of the things that bother me about the layout designs that I have worked on. I am not very creative when it comes to avoiding them. Will try to make beneficial changes and repost.
Thanks for directing me to Melvin’s article on switching leads. Easy to understand and makes sense. I will make the adjustments.
Current collection of equipment
Premier:
Great Northern Freight Set – 18 ore car consist
CSX Dash 8
NASA Solid Rocket Carrier Set
R40 Subway Set with extra cars
BNSF Corrugated Auto Carrier 6 car set
Assorted Freight Cars including 6 2 Car Spine Sets 48’
RailKing
4-6-2 PRR K4 Torpedo Steam Loco
4-8-4 Northern Imperial Steam Union Pacific
4-8-4 Imperial GS4 Northern – American Freedom
4-8-4 Imperial GS4 Northern – Southern Pacific
F-3 ABA Diesel Canadian National w/dummy
E-8 AA Southern Pacific w/dummy
Chessie SW9 Switcher (includes calf)
C&O Switcher
NY Transit Q Type Subway + 3 car add on
7-Car set ABS Passenger Pennsylvania
7-Car set ABS Passenger Canadian National
7-Car set ABS Passenger Southern Pacific
7-Car set ABS Passenger American Freedom
Other odds and ends –freight cars
Future: Plans are to stick mostly with Premier, both steamers and diesels. Want to add 18+ car consists of coal cars and 18+ 40’ AAR box cars. Actually a variety of freight cars.
I definitely want a working yard and close to a classification yard.
Industries would include, coal, lumber, fuel storage, general supply warehouses. I want a fairly large passenger station with several tracks leading into / alongside it. I would also like to work in a Christmas Village with Dept 56 buildings, currently I have around 30. Subway / “L” train in the city area. And if possible I would like to work in SuperStreets or equivalent. I am aware that K-Line will be no more.
I will be using DCS and have bought Barry's book. Barry has also been so kind as to help me with the wiring needs. I will be using Y4K tracks in Super Mode.
I am planning on a main height of 41 inches and upper level around 49. But I would be willing to raise the layout even higher if someone suggested it???
Don't forget that you really do need to be able to reach everywhere on the layout, even if it is just to hunt down and capture the dust bunnies. 
gsn1
Is your GN freight set headed up by the R-2 2-8-8-2? If so you are definitely into big steam with the likes of the Big Boy, Yellowstone, and Z-6 challenger. You will need to plan clearances accordingly.
It look like you should plan sidings and yards around 20 car freights. Those will run 240 to 300 inches depending on locomotives and cars.
Start thinking about scenery, particularly water and mountains, and then think about how your railroad will traverse them. That will help break up the parallel to the walls habit.
Is your GN freight set headed up by the R-2 2-8-8-2? If so you are definitely into big steam with the likes of the Big Boy, Yellowstone, and Z-6 challenger. You will need to plan clearances accordingly.
It look like you should plan sidings and yards around 20 car freights. Those will run 240 to 300 inches depending on locomotives and cars.
Start thinking about scenery, particularly water and mountains, and then think about how your railroad will traverse them. That will help break up the parallel to the walls habit.
gsn1,
You should show Ted your other design.
Rich
You should show Ted your other design.
Rich
Sorry, but I had to spend the last couple of days in the Hospital, that Liver thing. I have been thinking about everything that has been said, especially Ted your comments, and started yet another layout. Lots of changes in elevation and lots of slow winding curves. Added a transfer table, kept the turntable, and Rich, doubled or triple the room for your mountains. Has plenty of walk thru space and can reach every area of the layout. Very excited about it and hopefully can post tomorrow. I will also post the layout that Rich referred to. He has been most kind to assist me.
Ok, the first layout is one that I worked on for several weeks and Rich helped me out quite a bit. I still like this plan but was not sure about two major things. First, while their was plenty of access space it was not easy to get to and my health is very suspect. Second, the turntable and yard were up front and when I tried switching the city to up front, it just didn't work too well.
http://www.photos.jcstudiosinc.com/user282/gn4.jpg
This second file is my latest effort and I would really appreciate it if you could take a look and provide comments.
http://www.photos.jcstudiosinc.com/user282/cvrn4.jpg
http://www.photos.jcstudiosinc.com/user282/gn4.jpg
This second file is my latest effort and I would really appreciate it if you could take a look and provide comments.
http://www.photos.jcstudiosinc.com/user282/cvrn4.jpg
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Files (1)
GSN
I hope you are feeling well. I just had a chance to take a quick peek at the jpegs. Rich has you going in a good direction. Your latest concept with aisles and peninsulas will give you and your guests more vantage points from which to watch trains and the opportunity to follow a train without ducking from access hole to access hole.
Transfer tables can help to put a great number of locomotives in a relatively small space. That is why railroads use them at major shops. Are you thinking about modeling a shop complex or just using the transfer table to provide locomotive storage? Ross makes a great transfer table, is that the one you have in mind?
I like the direction you have gone with the yard and roundhouse. You might want to consider reversing the switch ladder on the right end of the yard to give more even track lengths and make use of that question marked space.
I hope you are feeling well. I just had a chance to take a quick peek at the jpegs. Rich has you going in a good direction. Your latest concept with aisles and peninsulas will give you and your guests more vantage points from which to watch trains and the opportunity to follow a train without ducking from access hole to access hole.
Transfer tables can help to put a great number of locomotives in a relatively small space. That is why railroads use them at major shops. Are you thinking about modeling a shop complex or just using the transfer table to provide locomotive storage? Ross makes a great transfer table, is that the one you have in mind?
I like the direction you have gone with the yard and roundhouse. You might want to consider reversing the switch ladder on the right end of the yard to give more even track lengths and make use of that question marked space.
quote:Originally posted by Ted Hikel:
GSN
I hope you are feeling well. I just had a chance to take a quick peek at the jpegs. Rich has you going in a good direction. Your latest concept with aisles and peninsulas will give you and your guests more vantage points from which to watch trains and the opportunity to follow a train without ducking from access hole to access hole.
Transfer tables can help to put a great number of locomotives in a relatively small space. That is why railroads use them at major shops. Are you thinking about modeling a shop complex or just using the transfer table to provide locomotive storage? Ross makes a great transfer table, is that the one you have in mind?
I like the direction you have gone with the yard and roundhouse. You might want to consider reversing the switch ladder on the right end of the yard to give more even track lengths and make use of that question marked space.
Thanks so much Ted, really appreciate your time.
The transfer table was added for Diesel storage, but will work shop complex in (how much room would you recommend?) There is small amount of room North of transfer table and then at far east end of yard a small area. The shop complex would be nice but not essential. I really have not researched any transfer tables. I will take a look at Ross.
I think I understand about the ladder on the right and have made the change. I have also made significant changes to the downtown area, providing lots of industry opportunities and added a area for a Christmas Village (west end of town).
I have lots of grade changes but I really think it would add to the visual effect. On the far North side I envision almost complete mountain coverage. With the trains darting out of mountains to go accross bridges and then winding curves into yet another mountain. I believe that I have room for four different mountain ranges. I am hoping that Rich will like that.
http://www.photos.jcstudiosinc.com/user282/cvrn52.jpg
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GSN
Your changes to the yard are exactly what I was thinking. You now have more car storage for the same number of switches and equal length yard tracks. That will make it easier to make up or break down trains.
Transfer tables are pretty rare. You generally only find them at major locomotive or car shops where a switch ladder would be too complex or eat up too much real estate. Often there are shop buildings on either side of the transfer table. That could work nicely for your locomotive storage needs and depict real world or at least real wold type heavy maintenance facilities. Take a look at this Milwaukee Road shop photo to see one such installation.
Grades can be challenging operationally. Why do the grades exist on your railroad? Is is just for scenic interest? Are the grades there to get your railroad over a mountain pass or get to a timber landing or a mine???????
Do you need helpers to get your trains over the grades???????
This could get fun!
Your changes to the yard are exactly what I was thinking. You now have more car storage for the same number of switches and equal length yard tracks. That will make it easier to make up or break down trains.
Transfer tables are pretty rare. You generally only find them at major locomotive or car shops where a switch ladder would be too complex or eat up too much real estate. Often there are shop buildings on either side of the transfer table. That could work nicely for your locomotive storage needs and depict real world or at least real wold type heavy maintenance facilities. Take a look at this Milwaukee Road shop photo to see one such installation.
Grades can be challenging operationally. Why do the grades exist on your railroad? Is is just for scenic interest? Are the grades there to get your railroad over a mountain pass or get to a timber landing or a mine???????
Do you need helpers to get your trains over the grades???????
This could get fun!
for a round house here is another idea
[IMG]http://fowlerdreamlayout.com/roundhouse%20m27.jpg[/IMG]
using more track and a bit of a run through
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Unless you have a brake mechanism to lock the turntable bridge in place, curved approach tracks to the table are asking for trouble.
both turn tables a re using a stepper motor.
[IMG:left]http://fowlerdreamlayout.com/roundhouse-m6.jpg[/IMG].
[URL=http://fowlerdreamlayout.com]Fowler layout[/URL]
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it does use a bkake mech also. http://www.nyrs.com/default.aspx .
[URL=http://www.nyrs.com/default.aspx]New York Railway Supply, Inc[/URL]
I don't want to hijack the thread, but the design in roundhouse-m6.jpg is probably okay because the two approach tracks have straight segments before they enter the table. The design in roundhouse_m27.jpg is problematic since three of the four approach tracks are curved where they enter the table.
One of the local guys here has an AAA turntable with a New York Railway Supply stepper motor indexing system. Due to space constraints, two of his approach tracks are curved like the roundhouse_m27.jpg design. When he would run a large locomotive (particularly anything articulated) onto the turntable from one of these tracks, the locomotive would move the bridge enough to disrupt the indexing. The locomotive may or may not derail, but he would need to reprogram the system to get the table to line up with the tracks again. He finally had a positive brake installed (air cylinders that force a pair of rubber-tipped plungers against the pit wall sides) to lock the bridge in place while locomotives are run onto the table.
For what it's worth...
One of the local guys here has an AAA turntable with a New York Railway Supply stepper motor indexing system. Due to space constraints, two of his approach tracks are curved like the roundhouse_m27.jpg design. When he would run a large locomotive (particularly anything articulated) onto the turntable from one of these tracks, the locomotive would move the bridge enough to disrupt the indexing. The locomotive may or may not derail, but he would need to reprogram the system to get the table to line up with the tracks again. He finally had a positive brake installed (air cylinders that force a pair of rubber-tipped plungers against the pit wall sides) to lock the bridge in place while locomotives are run onto the table.
For what it's worth...
quote:Originally posted by Ted Hikel:
GSN
Your changes to the yard are exactly what I was thinking. You now have more car storage for the same number of switches and equal length yard tracks. That will make it easier to make up or break down trains.
Transfer tables are pretty rare. You generally only find them at major locomotive or car shops where a switch ladder would be too complex or eat up too much real estate. Often there are shop buildings on either side of the transfer table. That could work nicely for your locomotive storage needs and depict real world or at least real wold type heavy maintenance facilities. Take a look at this Milwaukee Road shop photo to see one such installation.
Grades can be challenging operationally. Why do the grades exist on your railroad? Is is just for scenic interest? Are the grades there to get your railroad over a mountain pass or get to a timber landing or a mine???????
Do you need helpers to get your trains over the grades???????
This could get fun!
Thanks again Ted, I really appreciate your thoughts and suggestions. I was really pleased with the yard after the changes. Looks much better with the tracks being about the same length. The transfer table is a cool way of getting a lot more engines on the table. I really don't like looking at trains thru glass or especially in boxes. I want to see them run. Rich got back with me and pointed out that the mountain area was pretty busy and the blue line, bridge was lower that the yellow and green lines. Not very visually appealing. I agree and will be playing with the grades. The change in the blue line will push the green line to the bottom. This is okay but the transfer table is at the green level and will force it down. It might make the transfer table nothing more than a place for engine storage. But I am ok with that. However it could also open up more real estate for the buildings. They would just be lower. The grades were definately for the visual effect. I really like trains running over bridges on top of other tracks below. Passing thru the same mountain at two different levels is also very nice. All of the grades so far are 3.0 or below. So, I was feeling pretty good about them. Should I be concerned if I keep them all under 3.0?
And for the fun, designing is ok, but I am anxious to get started on the benchwork. I was really hoping to have some trains running by Christmas. The lonely Standard Gauge Tinplate around the ceiling needs some O gauge company.
Will post after I have completed the changes prompted by Rich.
Thanks Again Ted, really appreciate it.
I downloaded your layout again to RRTrack and really like what you've done with that huge space you have. One thing that I don't believe anyone has commented on is your main entrance. If that is where most traffic will occur might you consider flipping the entire layout so the walk in is located at the end where the main entrance is. That way you won't need a duck-under or lift bridge that you'll have to negotiate at the main entrance.
Steve
Steve
Lots of good thoughts on this thread, just a few concepts to add,
When working with 0 gauge I always first seek to use all four walls of the room as the max outside limit of the benchwork. No matter what style of 0 gauge equipment one runs IMO there can never be wide enough radius (diameter) of curve to enhance large steam engines and passenger trains.
Duck unders: Not sure of your structure, but an idea I picked up from the Cherry Valley Model RR of Merchantville NJ (who has a 0 scale train swap meet and train show in two weeks) is a three step down, three step up walk under. I did the same for my last layout. Four 7" risers provided 28 extra inches of head clearance. The depression only had to be one 16" block wide because only my lower legs need clear the low walls of the pit. I had a concrete guy do the work, came in around $350.
Yards: use large double ended off stage lower level yards to store most of your stock. On most layouts, no matter how large, it is hard to have exposed yards w/o having a over powering or over crowded condition.
Subway: Run totally seperate and isolated inside the lower edge of a fascia with long oval port holes at the stations. Either single track with a reverse loop at each end or dual track w/ a dogbone loop at each end with center passender platforms. The MTH subways can be programed for automatic stops either in a row or staggered.
Basic mainline config: It seems as though you want operations to some degree, have you considered a three level point to point? Something like a constant gradual slinky spring right of way with a couple of display loops buried within the design. That way you can have the ongoing scurring roundy-de-round fishtank activity of loopers providing back ground ambiance for point to point prototype or semi prototype operations.
Turntables: These can use up enormous space. If you are going to use one have you thought to consider NOT using a round house. That is the real space killer. Maybe a two or three track rectangular engine house.
Also if you run a three level spirialing layout in a point to point fashion you may wish to NOT use reverse loops, instead use turntables at each end for turning engines. With embedded display loops continually running the activity "down time" of prototypically turning a train is not boring to non choo-choo visitors.
Considering that you say you have never built something on such a scale as that on which you are embarking, it is good to go slow and work through different designs now. An enormous layout like you are planning is not something to easily rework when some design flaws or elevated expectation levels develop.
When working with 0 gauge I always first seek to use all four walls of the room as the max outside limit of the benchwork. No matter what style of 0 gauge equipment one runs IMO there can never be wide enough radius (diameter) of curve to enhance large steam engines and passenger trains.
Duck unders: Not sure of your structure, but an idea I picked up from the Cherry Valley Model RR of Merchantville NJ (who has a 0 scale train swap meet and train show in two weeks) is a three step down, three step up walk under. I did the same for my last layout. Four 7" risers provided 28 extra inches of head clearance. The depression only had to be one 16" block wide because only my lower legs need clear the low walls of the pit. I had a concrete guy do the work, came in around $350.
Yards: use large double ended off stage lower level yards to store most of your stock. On most layouts, no matter how large, it is hard to have exposed yards w/o having a over powering or over crowded condition.
Subway: Run totally seperate and isolated inside the lower edge of a fascia with long oval port holes at the stations. Either single track with a reverse loop at each end or dual track w/ a dogbone loop at each end with center passender platforms. The MTH subways can be programed for automatic stops either in a row or staggered.
Basic mainline config: It seems as though you want operations to some degree, have you considered a three level point to point? Something like a constant gradual slinky spring right of way with a couple of display loops buried within the design. That way you can have the ongoing scurring roundy-de-round fishtank activity of loopers providing back ground ambiance for point to point prototype or semi prototype operations.
Turntables: These can use up enormous space. If you are going to use one have you thought to consider NOT using a round house. That is the real space killer. Maybe a two or three track rectangular engine house.
Also if you run a three level spirialing layout in a point to point fashion you may wish to NOT use reverse loops, instead use turntables at each end for turning engines. With embedded display loops continually running the activity "down time" of prototypically turning a train is not boring to non choo-choo visitors.
Considering that you say you have never built something on such a scale as that on which you are embarking, it is good to go slow and work through different designs now. An enormous layout like you are planning is not something to easily rework when some design flaws or elevated expectation levels develop.
quote:Originally posted by KnobKnee:
I downloaded your layout again to RRTrack and really like what you've done with that huge space you have. One thing that I don't believe anyone has commented on is your main entrance. If that is where most traffic will occur might you consider flipping the entire layout so the walk in is located at the end where the main entrance is. That way you won't need a duck-under or lift bridge that you'll have to negotiate at the main entrance.
Steve
That is an excellent suggestion. Will have to work middle island (mirror image) because I would want the main Passenger Station area facing the south wall. If I simply rotate 180 degress it would be facing North. I am going to use the gate method rather than a duckunder of lift. And since it was only a single track around 8' it would not have been a very big problem, other than it was at a diagonal instead of straight. But your suggestion avoids the issue completely. Will see if I can make it work. Thank You.
quote:Originally posted by Tom Tee:
Lots of good thoughts on this thread, just a few concepts to add,
When working with 0 gauge I always first seek to use all four walls of the room as the max outside limit of the benchwork. No matter what style of 0 gauge equipment one runs IMO there can never be wide enough radius (diameter) of curve to enhance large steam engines and passenger trains.
Duck unders: Not sure of your structure, but an idea I picked up from the Cherry Valley Model RR of Merchantville NJ (who has a 0 scale train swap meet and train show in two weeks) is a three step down, three step up walk under. I did the same for my last layout. Four 7" risers provided 28 extra inches of head clearance. The depression only had to be one 16" block wide because only my lower legs need clear the low walls of the pit. I had a concrete guy do the work, came in around $350.
Yards: use large double ended off stage lower level yards to store most of your stock. On most layouts, no matter how large, it is hard to have exposed yards w/o having a over powering or over crowded condition.
Subway: Run totally seperate and isolated inside the lower edge of a fascia with long oval port holes at the stations. Either single track with a reverse loop at each end or dual track w/ a dogbone loop at each end with center passender platforms. The MTH subways can be programed for automatic stops either in a row or staggered.
Basic mainline config: It seems as though you want operations to some degree, have you considered a three level point to point? Something like a constant gradual slinky spring right of way with a couple of display loops buried within the design. That way you can have the ongoing scurring roundy-de-round fishtank activity of loopers providing back ground ambiance for point to point prototype or semi prototype operations.
Turntables: These can use up enormous space. If you are going to use one have you thought to consider NOT using a round house. That is the real space killer. Maybe a two or three track rectangular engine house.
Also if you run a three level spirialing layout in a point to point fashion you may wish to NOT use reverse loops, instead use turntables at each end for turning engines. With embedded display loops continually running the activity "down time" of prototypically turning a train is not boring to non choo-choo visitors.
Considering that you say you have never built something on such a scale as that on which you are embarking, it is good to go slow and work through different designs now. An enormous layout like you are planning is not something to easily rework when some design flaws or elevated expectation levels develop.
Tom:
Thanks for all of your thoughts. I will take another look at using all four walls. What you say about the wide radius makes great sense.
I am not going to use duck unders or lifts, but rather gate concept with door type hinges swinging out or in.
I appreciate your comments on yards: I like to see plenty of stock on top of layout, but can reach a point of over kill. I am not sure that I am at that point but will definitely consider putting additional tracks down under to store even more stock. That way I can adjust the look as required. And I am sure that you can never get too much track for storage.
Subway: I had kind of given up on putting subways underneath because of low visibility. I was going with an “L” train instead. And use the Main Passenger Train Station as multi level to service both the Passenger Trains below and “L” train above. With the MTH out and back program capability do you even need to join the tracks? I was thinking of having a “L” train servicing area / storage barn and then three lines servicing the downtown area. The trains would go out and then back.
Basic mainline config: You kind of lost me on this one, but would like to understand you concept here. Do you have an designs that utilize this approach or drawn examples?
Turntables: I agree they do in fact take up a lot of room. However, I really like the appearance of the turntable in front of a nice round house. And I really think the operations around the turntable can be enjoyable to many.
I appreciate your reminder of going slow. In my professional career I ran at a very fast pace. In retirement, past 18 months, I have learned to slow down pretty well. However, I seem to be in a hurry to get started and I completely agree and understand your warning on NOT rushing thru design. I have spent the last 18 months playing with designs and visiting as many large layouts as possible. In the last three months I have seen Tony Lash’s layout, the Misty Mountain Railroad and Jim Steed’s layout in Blairsville Ga. Each visit I learn more and have received great advice and suggestions from folks like you here on the forum. I really appreciate the feedback and guys taking the time to look at my designs. Please let me know more about the three level point to point config and the embedded display loops. I am sorry that I am not following it.
Gary
I'm pleased to see that we are beginning to reach people with ideas about how to build an OPERATING layout as opposed to a LOOP RUNNING layout. I'm also pleased to see that several of you have already mentioned the straight track issue and the need for a switching lead.
A couple comments on your latest version - cvm52.jpg - if I may.
1) Too many LONG, STRAIGHT tracks.
Do something with those long straights. Build them with flex track and gently curve them a little until they look right. You don't have to calculate the radius or even draw the track line on the table. Just put the flex track in place and start moving it around until you get a nice, 40-foot long reverse curve. You have no idea how much better that will look than a 40-foot long straight!
2) The Switching Lead
You have a great start on what will ultimately be a railroad that is really going to be fun to OPERATE. But I think you have short-changed yourself on the switching lead in the green yard at the bottom. I see you have a bypass track and what looks like the beginning of a switching lead, but the image is a little too small and fuzzy for me to tell exactly what you did at the East End of that big yard. To make the yard operate smoothly, your switching lead needs to be within a car length or two as long as the longest track in the yard. I'm not sure because of the small image, but it looks like your lead is a lot shorter than that. Trying to switch a big yard with a short lead is an exercise in frustration.
3 - Lineside Industries & Passing Sidings
While you have a tremendous amount of running room, but I don't see a lot of things for the trains to DO once they leave the green yard. Where are the customers that the big green yard will serve? There's room for two or three along the big straight section at the top (after you put the curves in ) There should be room for another customer or two on the center island. Think in terms of producing/consuming combinations. For example, a saw mill makes lumber for a furniture factory. A coal mine and a power plant - you get the idea.
You've got a great start here.
A couple comments on your latest version - cvm52.jpg - if I may.
1) Too many LONG, STRAIGHT tracks.
Do something with those long straights. Build them with flex track and gently curve them a little until they look right. You don't have to calculate the radius or even draw the track line on the table. Just put the flex track in place and start moving it around until you get a nice, 40-foot long reverse curve. You have no idea how much better that will look than a 40-foot long straight!
2) The Switching Lead
You have a great start on what will ultimately be a railroad that is really going to be fun to OPERATE. But I think you have short-changed yourself on the switching lead in the green yard at the bottom. I see you have a bypass track and what looks like the beginning of a switching lead, but the image is a little too small and fuzzy for me to tell exactly what you did at the East End of that big yard. To make the yard operate smoothly, your switching lead needs to be within a car length or two as long as the longest track in the yard. I'm not sure because of the small image, but it looks like your lead is a lot shorter than that. Trying to switch a big yard with a short lead is an exercise in frustration.
3 - Lineside Industries & Passing Sidings
While you have a tremendous amount of running room, but I don't see a lot of things for the trains to DO once they leave the green yard. Where are the customers that the big green yard will serve? There's room for two or three along the big straight section at the top (after you put the curves in
) There should be room for another customer or two on the center island. Think in terms of producing/consuming combinations. For example, a saw mill makes lumber for a furniture factory. A coal mine and a power plant - you get the idea.You've got a great start here.
quote:Originally posted by OGR Webmaster:
I'm pleased to see that we are beginning to reach people with ideas about how to build an OPERATING layout as opposed to a LOOP RUNNING layout. I'm also pleased to see that several of you have already mentioned the straight track issue and the need for a switching lead.
A couple comments on your latest version - cvm52.jpg - if I may.
1) Too many LONG, STRAIGHT tracks.
Do something with those long straights. Build them with flex track and gently curve them a little until they look right. You don't have to calculate the radius or even draw the track line on the table. Just put the flex track in place and start moving it around until you get a nice, 40-foot long reverse curve. You have no idea how much better that will look than a 40-foot long straight!
2) The Switching Lead
You have a great start on what will ultimately be a railroad that is really going to be fun to OPERATE. But I think you have short-changed yourself on the switching lead in the green yard at the bottom. I see you have a bypass track and what looks like the beginning of a switching lead, but the image is a little too small and fuzzy for me to tell exactly what you did at the East End of that big yard. To make the yard operate smoothly, your switching lead needs to be within a car length or two as long as the longest track in the yard. I'm not sure because of the small image, but it looks like your lead is a lot shorter than that. Trying to switch a big yard with a short lead is an exercise in frustration.
3 - Lineside Industries & Passing Sidings
While you have a tremendous amount of running room, but I don't see a lot of things for the trains to DO once they leave the green yard. Where are the customers that the big green yard will serve? There's room for two or three along the big straight section at the top (after you put the curves in
You've got a great start here.
Thanks for your feedback. The top section with all of the long straights I had envision about 4 mountains starting in the far left upper corner. The highest point coming out of a mountain and across the bridge spanning the tracks below and then darting behind a mountain only to be visable for a little span before back into yet anothe mountain. would be repeated twice. The long straight track wouldn't bee seen very much at all. Only between moutain ridges. However, I like you thoughts on curving the track and since I was using MTH ScaleTrax I have purchased 150 pieces of flex.
I understand what you are saying about the switching lead. But I was trying to keep the reach to 36'. I am 6' and hope that I can manage 36". However, I thought that trains could be dropped off at the bottom track of the yard and then the switcher engine take it from there. But I do understand your point and welcome any additional thoughts. Will the drop off track avoid the frustrations or not?
I have lots of little industries behind the downtown area and again utilized a drop track and then have switchers take over from there in this area. Then on the green line in the mountains I was planning on the lumber and coal industries.
I love the prototypical layouts, but I also like lots of action with lots of trains moving. While I have a nice area 20x50, the space runs out quickly. But the layout is mostly for the grandkids and they love to push the little cars on the roads, use switcher engines to move cars from place to place and to see animation in action.
I guess we can't have it all, even with 20x50 to work with. Mountains, turntables, transfer table, Christmas Villages, Downtowns, "L" trains. They all take up a lot of room especially if you want 080 curves or bigger. Wish I had a warehouse.
I want to thank you once again for you time and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate and value your input. I really want to get the design right and will take the time it deserves. This is my first and probably my last attempt at a large layout and I really would like for it to be something that I and others can enjoy.
Is there an adjacent room/area where a staging yard could be built along a wall as a shelf? Is there room in the yard to project a 2' X 2' 10'+/- enclosed arm?
Picture three medium sized dog houses connected end to end. On a three level layout you can have yards for the 1st and 3rd levels within the dog houses.
If you need a photo I can run to my last home for some shots. I got the idea from John Armstrong's book. He was thinking of a basement extension. I had built a free standing structure so my extension went out over the yard and the far end was supported on a 8" dia. poured concrete piling by the same guy who did my step down.
The enclosure was 22" wide on the inside dimension which allowed for five 0 scale tracks on both levels. That takes a huge burden off the layout design. I had it finished off with the same siding,soffet & shingles. In a weird way it looked like it belonged.
Picture three medium sized dog houses connected end to end. On a three level layout you can have yards for the 1st and 3rd levels within the dog houses.
If you need a photo I can run to my last home for some shots. I got the idea from John Armstrong's book. He was thinking of a basement extension. I had built a free standing structure so my extension went out over the yard and the far end was supported on a 8" dia. poured concrete piling by the same guy who did my step down.
The enclosure was 22" wide on the inside dimension which allowed for five 0 scale tracks on both levels. That takes a huge burden off the layout design. I had it finished off with the same siding,soffet & shingles. In a weird way it looked like it belonged.
quote:Originally posted by OGR Webmaster:
I'm pleased to see that we are beginning to reach people with ideas about how to build an OPERATING layout as opposed to a LOOP RUNNING layout. I'm also pleased to see that several of you have already mentioned the straight track issue and the need for a switching lead.
A couple comments on your latest version - cvm52.jpg - if I may.
1) Too many LONG, STRAIGHT tracks.
Do something with those long straights. Build them with flex track and gently curve them a little until they look right. You don't have to calculate the radius or even draw the track line on the table. Just put the flex track in place and start moving it around until you get a nice, 40-foot long reverse curve. You have no idea how much better that will look than a 40-foot long straight!
2) The Switching Lead
You have a great start on what will ultimately be a railroad that is really going to be fun to OPERATE. But I think you have short-changed yourself on the switching lead in the green yard at the bottom. I see you have a bypass track and what looks like the beginning of a switching lead, but the image is a little too small and fuzzy for me to tell exactly what you did at the East End of that big yard. To make the yard operate smoothly, your switching lead needs to be within a car length or two as long as the longest track in the yard. I'm not sure because of the small image, but it looks like your lead is a lot shorter than that. Trying to switch a big yard with a short lead is an exercise in frustration.
3 - Lineside Industries & Passing Sidings
While you have a tremendous amount of running room, but I don't see a lot of things for the trains to DO once they leave the green yard. Where are the customers that the big green yard will serve? There's room for two or three along the big straight section at the top (after you put the curves in
You've got a great start here.
Melvin
I have rotated the entire layout 180 degrees. This eliminated the duckunder at the far right side of layout, as suggested by Steve. This resulted in some other modifications and I reworked the turntable area and yard. Will you please tell me if I am thinking correctly. If a train headed east into the yard on the pink track, drops its cars, then can proceed directly to round house or go back out on the green line. Then the Yard's switcher engine can hook onto the cars, left on the pink track, and move them around to where they need to go. Would it also make sense to connect the pink track to the green track either above or below the pink track with another set of #4 switches? Kind of a set of working tracks for the yard swithcer. The other way of dropping cars off at yard is for the train to pull directly into the yard track from the west and once again either proceed to roundhouse or go back out on the green line. If not prototypical, is it at least a workable yard?
Same layout without buildings, roads, houses, etc.
Anyway to layout a design that uses a minimum curve of 096 or larger? If this is to be a long term layout it is safe IMO to say you will eventually regret what looks like small 072 curves.
quote:Originally posted by Tom Tee:
Anyway to layout a design that uses a minimum curve of 096 or larger? If this is to be a long term layout it is safe IMO to say you will eventually regret what looks like small 072 curves.
Tom: I am sorry but not following your last reply.
East End South wall- Green is 100+, Yellow is 90+ and Blue is 80
West End South wall - Green is 100+, Yellow is 90+ and Blue is 90
All of the other curves, accept inside the downtown area, is 080 or larger. And as you can see I am cutting the access pretty close, around 22 inches. I would have to eliminate lines and probably loss the middle.
Can you include the RRTrack file? It's much easier to follow along in RRTrack.
Steve
Steve
Ok, FINAL CHANGES:
After talking with Rich Battista, I had to flip the layout once again. Rich encouraged me and I agreed that it was too important for the mountain area to be up against the back wall because of the scenery that will be painted on the back wall. Down side - once again I have a single piece of track that will have to be raised, lifted or hinged out of the way of the main entrance. Up side - gives me a path to the far west end of layout where the tool room is located. All of the power tools to construct the benchwork etc will be in the work room. In addition there is clear access to every area of the layout now.
So: I need ideas on what is the best way to give access from the main entrance. Lift, hinged, duckunder. I would perfer ideas on how to hing that section of track, out and back towards the east wall.
Any final thoughts on the track layout would also be appreciated. The south side, "yard" green track is at 38" along with the transfer table area. The center island, "Downtown" is at 45", subway at 52". The blue line in the mountain area will be at 58" - 60" and the yellow and green line in mountain area will be at 45"
Ted: Would appreciate your thoughts, Considering your last response I have made a few changes and would like to get your reaction. Rich is on board with this latest layout design and will be assisting me with the mountains.
After talking with Rich Battista, I had to flip the layout once again. Rich encouraged me and I agreed that it was too important for the mountain area to be up against the back wall because of the scenery that will be painted on the back wall. Down side - once again I have a single piece of track that will have to be raised, lifted or hinged out of the way of the main entrance. Up side - gives me a path to the far west end of layout where the tool room is located. All of the power tools to construct the benchwork etc will be in the work room. In addition there is clear access to every area of the layout now.
So: I need ideas on what is the best way to give access from the main entrance. Lift, hinged, duckunder. I would perfer ideas on how to hing that section of track, out and back towards the east wall.
Any final thoughts on the track layout would also be appreciated. The south side, "yard" green track is at 38" along with the transfer table area. The center island, "Downtown" is at 45", subway at 52". The blue line in the mountain area will be at 58" - 60" and the yellow and green line in mountain area will be at 45"
Ted: Would appreciate your thoughts, Considering your last response I have made a few changes and would like to get your reaction. Rich is on board with this latest layout design and will be assisting me with the mountains.
Attachments
Files (1)
GSN
The lift out on a curve is a double whammy and you will want to have something in place early on so you can use your yard and roundhouse. Dave has built a temporary lift out on the NWTL that has very effectively served it's purpose although it is strait. I'll see if I can send you a close up shot or two of the details.
You present yard configuration will present some significant operational constraints. The green line has a short segment of single track connecting two elongated balloon tracks. Because your main line either crosses the yard throat or goes through the yard any switching activity will tie up the main line. If you are going to have friends over for an operating session with a yard crew or you want to switch the yard while just letting trains run on the mainline your switching will not be very efficient and come with increased risk of a collision or derailment. Try and give traffic on the main line the path through switches that uses the strait route, this will help make derailments less common. Consider coming out of the yard at an angle to require less than a 90 degree curve over the aisle. And lets see if a yard lead is something that can be worked in.
Your turntable and north engine house access come down long lead tracks. The crossover coming out of the turntable will make the rest of that lead track usable for car storage but the north engine house lead will be underutilized or you will be blocking the engine house. Consider eliminating one of the engine houses near the turntable and having two shorter turntable access tracks, one for incoming and one for outbound locomotives. Have coal (or oil) and water available there.
Be wary of clearance issues on the corners of your roundhouse and at the ends of the turntable tracks. I'm not saying there is definitely a problem but be aware that there is a potential problem there.
There isn't much horizontal separation between the green and blue lines at the west end of the peninsula. I believe there will be quite a bit of vertical separation between those two tracks. How will that be handled scenically to look plausible?
The yellow line will fly over the transfer table. That may require the elimination of some tracks on the north side for supporting piers. Will the overall scene with the yellow line over the transfer table look satisfying to you?
Areas of your plan have the potential to look very realistic. Other areas are very toy train like. If you like both looks that is great. If over time you think you might want more of a "model railroad" than "toy train layout" look there are some areas that you might want to rethink before firing up the skill saw.
I hope all that doesn't come across as a downer. There is excitement that comes with getting ready to start building benchwork. I hope you don't feel like you need to go backward but taking a moment to consider a few details might save some reworking in the not too distant future.
I have read your other post about grades and roadbed thickness. You have become an advanced user of RR track and that should save you a lot of grief. It is a great tool to identify and resolve issues that were often only discovered in the construction stage in the pencil and paper planning era.
Let us know when the sawdust starts flying.
The lift out on a curve is a double whammy and you will want to have something in place early on so you can use your yard and roundhouse. Dave has built a temporary lift out on the NWTL that has very effectively served it's purpose although it is strait. I'll see if I can send you a close up shot or two of the details.
You present yard configuration will present some significant operational constraints. The green line has a short segment of single track connecting two elongated balloon tracks. Because your main line either crosses the yard throat or goes through the yard any switching activity will tie up the main line. If you are going to have friends over for an operating session with a yard crew or you want to switch the yard while just letting trains run on the mainline your switching will not be very efficient and come with increased risk of a collision or derailment. Try and give traffic on the main line the path through switches that uses the strait route, this will help make derailments less common. Consider coming out of the yard at an angle to require less than a 90 degree curve over the aisle. And lets see if a yard lead is something that can be worked in.
Your turntable and north engine house access come down long lead tracks. The crossover coming out of the turntable will make the rest of that lead track usable for car storage but the north engine house lead will be underutilized or you will be blocking the engine house. Consider eliminating one of the engine houses near the turntable and having two shorter turntable access tracks, one for incoming and one for outbound locomotives. Have coal (or oil) and water available there.
Be wary of clearance issues on the corners of your roundhouse and at the ends of the turntable tracks. I'm not saying there is definitely a problem but be aware that there is a potential problem there.
There isn't much horizontal separation between the green and blue lines at the west end of the peninsula. I believe there will be quite a bit of vertical separation between those two tracks. How will that be handled scenically to look plausible?
The yellow line will fly over the transfer table. That may require the elimination of some tracks on the north side for supporting piers. Will the overall scene with the yellow line over the transfer table look satisfying to you?
Areas of your plan have the potential to look very realistic. Other areas are very toy train like. If you like both looks that is great. If over time you think you might want more of a "model railroad" than "toy train layout" look there are some areas that you might want to rethink before firing up the skill saw.
I hope all that doesn't come across as a downer. There is excitement that comes with getting ready to start building benchwork. I hope you don't feel like you need to go backward but taking a moment to consider a few details might save some reworking in the not too distant future.
I have read your other post about grades and roadbed thickness. You have become an advanced user of RR track and that should save you a lot of grief. It is a great tool to identify and resolve issues that were often only discovered in the construction stage in the pencil and paper planning era.
Let us know when the sawdust starts flying.
quote:Originally posted by Ted Hikel:
GSN
The lift out on a curve is a double whammy and you will want to have something in place early on so you can use your yard and roundhouse. Dave has built a temporary lift out on the NWTL that has very effectively served it's purpose although it is strait. I'll see if I can send you a close up shot or two of the details.
Once again thanks for you time. Your in depth thoughts are greatly appreciated. I was hoping to avoid any duckunder but this was the best I could do. I am planning on a swing out arm, much like a door. The door hinge would be at the north end of track on the east side, swinging out south east. There are two sets of French doors, one labeled main entrance and the second is directly east, one foot in.
Here is a 3D close up of the swing out arm, the black on the floor represent 3.5 in rollers. I would really appreciate seeing the pictures of what Dave did on the NWTL
You present yard configuration will present some significant operational constraints. The green line has a short segment of single track connecting two elongated balloon tracks. Because your main line either crosses the yard throat or goes through the yard any switching activity will tie up the main line. If you are going to have friends over for an operating session with a yard crew or you want to switch the yard while just letting trains run on the mainline your switching will not be very efficient and come with increased risk of a collision or derailment. Try and give traffic on the main line the path through switches that uses the strait route, this will help make derailments less common. Consider coming out of the yard at an angle to require less than a 90 degree curve over the aisle. And lets see if a yard lead is something that can be worked in.
I will work on this. I had an earlier version of the yard that had the angled lead.
Your turntable and north engine house access come down long lead tracks. The crossover coming out of the turntable will make the rest of that lead track usable for car storage but the north engine house lead will be underutilized or you will be blocking the engine house. Consider eliminating one of the engine houses near the turntable and having two shorter turntable access tracks, one for incoming and one for outbound locomotives. Have coal (or oil) and water available there.
Here is the latest design with the south engine shed eliminated and the two tracks providing access to the turntables. It also made an area for coal and water.
Be wary of clearance issues on the corners of your roundhouse and at the ends of the turntable tracks. I'm not saying there is definitely a problem but be aware that there is a potential problem there.
Dennis B is running behind on his roundhouse. So, I don't have any dimensions to work with. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. There is some limited room all around that area, but not a lot.
There isn't much horizontal separation between the green and blue lines at the west end of the peninsula. I believe there will be quite a bit of vertical separation between those two tracks. How will that be handled scenically to look plausible?
This is the number one concern that I have at this point. You are correct there are actually 4 levels of track running on top of each other for approximately 6 - 8 feet. 1st level is yard and transfer table at ~38, then the yellow line at ~45, then the brown line (L train) at ~52 and finally the blue line at ~58. I say approximately because I realized that I had not consider the thickness of the plywood supporting the track. So right now everything is off either 3/4 inch or 1.25 if I add 1/2 in of foam. I added foam to the yard area based on a conversation I had with AL when I ordered the turntable from AL. Do you think I need to keep the foam over the entire layout or not?
The yellow line will fly over the transfer table. That may require the elimination of some tracks on the north side for supporting piers. Will the overall scene with the yellow line over the transfer table look satisfying to you?
It is not my first choice, but did solve some other problems and allowed me to get the yellow line through downtown. Will try again to see if I can move the yellow line west of transfer table to avoid the fly over. I really like the idea of the transfer table as a place for the Diesel engines. But if it needs to go to avoid the flyover and or the scenery treatment for the 4 levels then I guess I would be ok with that. But would want it to be the last resort.
Areas of your plan have the potential to look very realistic. Other areas are very toy train like. If you like both looks that is great. If over time you think you might want more of a "model railroad" than "toy train layout" look there are some areas that you might want to rethink before firing up the skill saw.
You are right on this one. The center island for downtown is right now all about the grandson. He is 7 and while he is very capable of completely operating DCS, including the setup of routes and running them, he is also 7 and loves to push the cars along the road and really wanted the Christmas Village with trolley etc. I also tried to design the industrial area, North of downtown, to allow him to play with a switcher engine at the various industries in that area, and not interfere with the mainlines around the town. This area will probably be changed out as time goes by to more of a model railroad theme. But yes, right now I am ok with it being more "toy train" like.
I hope all that doesn't come across as a downer. There is excitement that comes with getting ready to start building benchwork. I hope you don't feel like you need to go backward but taking a moment to consider a few details might save some reworking in the not too distant future.
No, no, no. This is what I am wanting. I don't want the excitement of starting benchwork to lead me to starting before the design is well vetted. I really appreciate you thoughts and they are all just right on. I would have already been building benchwork and laying track if it wasn't for RRTrack. It is amazing what you can do with it. As you can see from the RRTrack file I have most of the boards of the benchwork represented. I have tried to be as accurate as possible and have ferreted out numerious problems as a result. Discovering that I hadn't allowed enough clearance because of the thickness of the plywood is just one example. I don't want to redo anything because of poor planning. Re-doing because I just want to add details or improve scenery is one thing, but the benchwork and track has to be dead on.
I have read your other post about grades and roadbed thickness. You have become an advanced user of RR track and that should save you a lot of grief. It is a great tool to identify and resolve issues that were often only discovered in the construction stage in the pencil and paper planning era.
Having problems with RRTrack and getting the above meantioned pictures. When I save the .bmp in 3D view, all I am getting is a grey picture. Will keep trying and edit this post when I figure it out. Maybe calling Russ will help.
Let us know when the sawdust starts flying.
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