I am increasing a Legacy engine speed by sending in the appropriate commands via an LCS SER2 serial port. The engine speed changes but the CAB2 display doesn't display the new speed. Is there a way to update the CAB2 display?
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MyToyTrains posted:I am increasing a Legacy engine speed by sending in the appropriate commands via an LCS SER2 serial port. The engine speed changes but the CAB2 display doesn't display the new speed. Is there a way to update the CAB2 display?
I know the DCS App also does not update the Cab2 display when an engine speed is increased BUT the iCab app does. I'd be interested to know why as well.
Is it possible that the WiFi unit sends slightly different code that the base sends to Cab-2 to update it? Just thinking out loud here
Well since Lionel developed the WiFi App vs MTH's App and serial commands I am sure that's quite possible.
Could this shortcoming be an intentional omission, to avoid infringing on the DCS patent for two-way communication? I think the DCS patent refers to communication between the loco and the base. Not the same as a third-party app communicating with the base (or even with the remote directly, if a dongle plugged into the phone or LCS module could generate the same type of radio signals that the base uses to communicate with the remote.)
I don't have LCS-- yet! But here's my question: Let's say the train is going 40 and LCS decreases the speed to 20. I presume based on your post that the CAB-2 display still shows 40. So now what happens if you you turn the red knob on the CAB-2 one click to the left when it's like this? Does the loco suddenly speed back up to 39? Or does it display 39 (still wrong) but run at 19?
IIRC the CAB-1 (good riddance!) transmitted in RELATIVE speed steps (-1, -5, etc.) I believe the CAB-2 transmits commands in absolute speed steps, which would result in the sudden speed changes I described above. If the CAB-2 could be switched to relative commands (only when in companion use with LCS or the app), the speed graph would be incorrect, but it would provide smoother operating characteristics without sudden speed changes.
The above is all speculation, because I really don't know! How does your actual experience conform to what I wrote?
I wrote code that starts up all of my engines. I set their absolute speeds to 59 (Slow speed). When I access any engine via CAB2 the speed graph shows zero and the engine speed does not change. But if I try to change the speed via the CAB2 then the engine speed drops to match the speed graph on the CAB2 so it drops the speed to zero.
I have the Lionel published LCS codes. I thought that would be an all inclusive list of codes (it is pretty extensive). I may be missing a code which updates the CAB2 though.
MyToyTrains posted:I wrote code that starts up all of my engines. I set their absolute speeds to 59 (Slow speed). When I access any engine via CAB2 the speed graph shows zero and the engine speed does not change. But if I try to change the speed via the CAB2 then the engine speed drops to match the speed graph on the CAB2 so it drops the speed to zero.
Ugh. That's what I was afraid of.
I'm surprised that Lionel didn't include a provision for the CAB-2 to transmit speed steps in "relative" mode, like the CAB-1. If we describe what's happening to Lionel's tech team, perhaps a relative mode could be included in a future Legacy firmware update. Jon Z, and I think Rudy Trubitt used to be handling this stuff at Lionel. Jon is gone, and I thought I heard that Rudy retired recently too. Who can we reach out to?
Just an idea I’m gonna check this when I get home I have the software on my computer. But run this software and see if the code comes up different from the cab-2 or the iCab app compared to the serial communication.
I did a test with my CAB1 and CAB2. When I run an engine from the CAB1, the CAB2 display does not change.
I have a recollection from a long time ago that due to a MTH patent on the speed readout when they developed their DCS controller, Lionel was prevented from including it on their Cab2.
Does anyone have 2 CAB2's so they can see if changing on also changes the other?
MyToyTrains posted:Does anyone have 2 CAB2's so they can see if changing on also changes the other?
Yes if adjusting from one cab-2 all other cab-2’s will reflect the change
Yes all Cab2s will respond to a speed adjustment. When Legacy first came out if I am remembering correctly even Feedback would travel to all remotes. I think they stopped that ability. @SantaFeFan might be able to confirm this. He also might be able to shed some light on the serial vs WiFi speed tracking on Cab2s.
Marty if that's the case I would like to know what the last version of Legacy was that left this feature intact. I want it, and if it was removed in an update then I guess I just won't update beyond said version. Bummer when stuff like this happens 
Which feature? The throttle graph and the brake slider are displayed on all remotes to the current version. I don't use the feedback, so I don't know when or if it ever repeated. Other commands like whistle, bell, etc. don't appear to repeat.
I guess I don't know what "feedback" is. Here's the scenario I'm concerned about... I give little Jimmy a CAB-2. I also have a CAB-2 with the same loco selected. Jimmy turns the knob, and the train begins running faster and faster. I don't touch my remote unless I need to, so I guess it's at zero. If Jimmy gets the train going too fast, I want to be able to dial the speed back a little using my CAB-2.
But... If my remote doesn't know how fast the loco is going, then as soon as I select the loco or touch the red knob, the loco may slow to zero. This is the outcome I'm trying to avoid.
I never liked the CAB-1 with its "relative" speed steps. But it worked the way I prefer in scenarios like the one I described above. Please advise.
Ted S posted:I guess I don't know what "feedback" is. Here's the scenario I'm concerned about... I give little Jimmy a CAB-2. I also have a CAB-2 with the same loco selected. Jimmy turns the knob, and the train begins running faster and faster. I don't touch my remote unless I need to, so I guess it's at zero. If Jimmy gets the train going too fast, I want to be able to dial the speed back a little using my CAB-2.
But... If my remote doesn't know how fast the loco is going, then as soon as I select the loco or touch the red knob, the loco may slow to zero. This is the outcome I'm trying to avoid.
I never liked the CAB-1 with its "relative" speed steps. But it worked the way I prefer in scenarios like the one I described above. Please advise.
Yes this works just as you describe. Using Cab-2’s on the same loco each one knows the current speed and is reflected in the speed graph. As a separate note you can set a “speed limit” on “little jimmy’s” Cab-2 to keep the train from going over a set speed step. Now I don’t know if that is specific for each Cab-2 or if the base knows the limit. Never paid that much attention.
As to what we are actually trying to solve is having the speed graph respond when commands originate from a source that is not a Cab-2
hope this helps 😁
Just to be clear, iCab does in fact track the speed graph on a Cab2 and vice versa.
MartyE posted:Just to be clear, iCab does in fact track the speed graph on a Cab2 and vice versa.
Is there any way that you can display the actual codes that are being sent by the iCab when you change the speed of the loco? I have a LCS Ser2 connected to a computer which allows me to view the codes display in Hex. This has allowed me to "debug" my computer program by seeing the actual codes that are sent by my CAB2. It would be interesting to see if the codes sent by the iCab app are in someway different so they are able to update the CAB2's.
I'm not sure if there is a way. @Railsounds might know. I maybe mistaken but I believe the LCS iPad app also updates the Cab2 screen. I can test this tonight as I have all of this connected.
Ted S posted:I guess I don't know what "feedback" is.
"Feedback" is the vibration for commands, it's toggled by pressing the FEEDBACK button just above and to the right of the big red knob.
Ok I hope this helps someone, using Lionel's WiFi Monitor I mentioned earlier I took clips of the Legacy code going through the LCS system. Now thinking about this it may do no good as what might update the Cab-2 remote may be all internal inside the base but thought I'd still post this. The first bit is from a Cab-2 sending ENG44 to "restricted Speed"
"LCS Monitor Log File, started 23:29:24 on 01-31-2020
84567.72 <-- D1 28 F8 58 00 88 DF
TMCC data: F85800 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 0
84567.75 <-- D1 28 F8 59 FF 88 DF
TMCC data: F859FF - ENG 44 0x1FF - Undefined <translation req>
84567.80 <-- D1 28 F8 58 C8 C0 DF
TMCC data: F858C8 - ENG 44 Momentum Low: 0
84567.83 <-- D1 28 F8 58 F0 98 DF
TMCC data: F858F0 - ENG 44 Trainbrake Level: 0
84567.84 <-- D1 28 F8 58 F0 98 DF
TMCC data: F858F0 - ENG 44 Trainbrake Level: 0
84568.00 <-- D1 28 F8 58 01 87 DF
TMCC data: F85801 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 1
84568.09 <-- D1 28 F8 59 CE B9 DF
TMCC data: F859CE - ENG 44 Engine Labor: 14
84568.31 <-- D1 28 F8 58 07 81 DF
TMCC data: F85807 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 7
84568.51 <-- D1 28 F8 59 CC BB DF
TMCC data: F859CC - ENG 44 Engine Labor: 12
84568.62 <-- D1 28 F8 58 18 70 DF
TMCC data: F85818 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 24"
This next bit is from the Legacy version of the eTrain Command Console also sending ENG44 to "Restricted Speed"
"LCS Monitor Log File, started 23:30:07 on 01-31-2020
84609.64 <-- D1 28 F8 59 A0 E7 DF
TMCC data: F859A0 - ENG 44 RPM Run Level: 0
84609.67 <-- D1 28 F8 58 01 87 DF
TMCC data: F85801 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 1
84610.14 <-- D1 28 F8 58 02 86 DF
TMCC data: F85802 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 2
84610.66 <-- D1 28 F8 58 03 85 DF
TMCC data: F85803 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 3
84611.17 <-- D1 28 F8 58 04 84 DF
TMCC data: F85804 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 4
84611.69 <-- D1 28 F8 58 05 83 DF
TMCC data: F85805 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 5
84612.23 <-- D1 28 F8 58 06 82 DF
TMCC data: F85806 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 6
84612.73 <-- D1 28 F8 58 07 81 DF
TMCC data: F85807 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 7
84613.24 <-- D1 28 F8 58 08 80 DF
TMCC data: F85808 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 8
84613.84 <-- D1 28 F8 58 09 7F DF
TMCC data: F85809 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 9
84614.29 <-- D1 28 F8 58 0A 7E DF
TMCC data: F8580A - ENG 44 Absolute speed 10
84614.79 <-- D1 28 F8 58 0B 7D DF
TMCC data: F8580B - ENG 44 Absolute speed 11
84615.30 <-- D1 28 F8 58 0C 7C DF
TMCC data: F8580C - ENG 44 Absolute speed 12
84615.83 <-- D1 28 F8 58 0D 7B DF
TMCC data: F8580D - ENG 44 Absolute speed 13
84616.32 <-- D1 28 F8 58 0E 7A DF
TMCC data: F8580E - ENG 44 Absolute speed 14
84616.84 <-- D1 28 F8 58 0F 79 DF
TMCC data: F8580F - ENG 44 Absolute speed 15
84617.36 <-- D1 28 F8 58 10 78 DF
TMCC data: F85810 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 16
84617.89 <-- D1 28 F8 58 11 77 DF
TMCC data: F85811 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 17
84618.39 <-- D1 28 F8 58 12 76 DF
TMCC data: F85812 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 18
84618.91 <-- D1 28 F8 58 13 75 DF
TMCC data: F85813 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 19
84619.42 <-- D1 28 F8 58 14 74 DF
TMCC data: F85814 - ENG 44 Absolute speed 20"
I just want to confirm that the eTrain app also updates the speed graph on CAB2 correctly?
One difference is that I directly set the absolute speed at the max speed I want to set in a single command while both CAB2 and eTrain increase the speed in multiple steps. I might try that in my software to see if that makes a difference.
Thanks for the logs!
MyToyTrains posted:I just want to confirm that the eTrain app also updates the speed graph on CAB2 correctly?
One difference is that I directly set the absolute speed at the max speed I want to set in a single command while both CAB2 and eTrain increase the speed in multiple steps. I might try that in my software to see if that makes a difference.
Thanks for the logs!
I did confirm both iCab and LCS update Cab2s speed graph and Cab2 updates the apps.
I have a version of eTrain I can try tonight.
MartyE posted:MyToyTrains posted:I just want to confirm that the eTrain app also updates the speed graph on CAB2 correctly?
One difference is that I directly set the absolute speed at the max speed I want to set in a single command while both CAB2 and eTrain increase the speed in multiple steps. I might try that in my software to see if that makes a difference.
Thanks for the logs!
I did confirm both iCab and LCS update Cab2s speed graph and Cab2 updates the apps.
I have a version of eTrain I can try tonight.
I apologize I wasn’t clear on that eTrain did NOT update the Cab-2
Well I tried the codes being displayed above and none of the sequences sent from my program updated the CAB2 speed graph.
The fact that eTrain also doesn't update CAB2 and it also sends data via the serial port might indicate that this is a limit of the system.
I'm wondering if only apps that utilize LCS wifi can update CAB2?
