use two motors in scale articulate engines

romiller49 posted:

Two motor design in the scale articulates would decrease the overhang as they do on Railking and Lionmaster engines. I realize it would not be prototypical having both sets of wheels to swivel however, neither is the ridiculous over hang on O72 curves.

romiller

Just my opinion but. I don't believe we all could afford the model if Lionel, MTH and Sunset/3rd Rail provided such a drive design. The Kohs 2-Rail Scale high end articulated model have twin motor drive systems, along with twin sound/exhaust electronics. They sell for over $8000!!!!!

You are still trying to fit a 34"long locomotive on a 72" curve.What you would be saving on front end hang over you will be gaining on As# end hangover.If she's to fat -she's to fat my friend- LOL.Nick

This is the overhang on a Lionel/American Flyer Y3 (which is a full scale locomotive) on R20 (sharpest commercial S Gauge) curves:

Lionel did the same with the Flyer Challenger and (old K-Line) Big Boy.

Both engine sets are motorized with its own motor and each one pivots like a Lionmaster or Railking.  The method was pioneered by Rivarrossi in HO back in the 1960's.  Most, if not all, HO non-brass articulated loco's still use this method today.

The drivers and sound go in and out of sync, just like the real thing.

There's no reason the two point articulation system wouldn't work on Signature or Premier Locomotives to help minimize the overhang of large articulated locomotives, and it wouldn't cost 8 grand, either.

Rusty

I think it looks cool with the overhang.

It sure has guests ask lots of questions when we run them at the club!

I believe that Romiller was referring to a design like the Railking and Lionmaster (and some brass full-scale R-O-W steamers), not an "exotic" "Kohs" system. 

These locomotives are incorrect in their both-engines-swivel configuration, but on larger curves that is not always horribly noticeable, and, indeed, can be less noticeable than the long-snoot situation. Case-by-case, and choose-your-own-poison situation.

This articulated steam loco design is interesting to me. It looks like a steam loco, but philosophically and mechanically it's actually built like a model RS-1 or SD70: a long rigid frame (which, by definition, the real articulateds did not have) having a motorized, swiveling truck at each end. So, the boiler "swing" is geometrically split between the ends - less nose swing, more cab swing. Looks better, generally - until you look at the rear engine. Just depends.

These look like model steamers, but, underneath, they're model diesels.      

ROW did the 2 motors in The PRR  T-1.   It worked well.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

ROW did the 2 motors in Th T-1.   It worked well.

But a PRR T1 is NOT an articulated.

Hot Water posted:

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

ROW did the 2 motors in Th T-1.   It worked well.

But a PRR T1 is NOT an articulated.

The Right of Way T1 was an articulated model.  By using the twin motor, twin pivot design (and way too small drivers) they made a full scale sized T1 that could go around 042 curves.  IMHO the drivers make it look goofy though.

We occasionally run into this in 2-rail scale.  The normal installation requires a lot of ugly cutting in the boiler belly and rear cylinder saddle.  I did one just to see if I could do it.  I have an NP Challenger with two Pittman 8324 motors stacked in the firebox.  They both drop down to a coaxial drive shaft.  The driveshaft for the forward engine goes through the rear gearbox, inside the rear worm shaft.

I got the idea when I checked out in the 757.  We had Rolls Royce engines with just that arrangement on three different shafts.  I called my design a "twin spool" drive.

For a tinplate model, nobody seems to care whether the boiler even exists below the running boards, so I suspect such an animal will not cost much more than, say, two consolidations.

For a truly scale model, I find that one motor is plenty, and if you want to see the engines go in and out of synch, just use two different gear ratios.  I have one like that, and it runs quite well.  Two motors is just too complicated.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

ROW did the 2 motors in Th T-1.   It worked well.

All of the ROW articulateds and, as you mention, the T1, were twin vertically mounted pittman motors allowing 042 operation. And, yes, the driver diameter was reduced to help accomodate 042 operation. Using Boston gears in the mechanism allowed for 8 pounds of pulling power.

Regards,

Lou N

Lou, how have you been.  It is always great to see an expert like yourself post.   For those who do not know, Lou was the man behind ROW trains and electronics.  Lou and Mike Reagan worked together at Train America.  Lou, I still need you to sign my Train America sign and my wall.  I saved a spot for you on the sign.

Thank you Marty.  I plan on taking care of that soon.  I see you are a wi-fi beta tester. Mike Wolf was just here a few weeks ago doing a demo. Took him to dinner and a layout. This is truly a great hobby with great friends.

Lou

Thank you Marty.  I plan on taking care of that soon.  I see you are a wi-fi beta tester. Mike Wolf was just here a few weeks ago doing a demo. Took him to dinner and a layout. This is truly a great hobby with great friends.

Lou

Additionally I talk with Mike R and Phil weekly.  Too bad Brian didnt go to NC.

Lou

No thanks... its 3R, 072 and has plenty of pulling power. Single motor is just fine.

Bob posted:

Hot Water posted:

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

ROW did the 2 motors in Th T-1.   It worked well.

But a PRR T1 is NOT an articulated.

The Right of Way T1 was an articulated model.  By using the twin motor, twin pivot design (and way too small drivers) they made a full scale sized T1 that could go around 042 curves.  IMHO the drivers make it look goofy though.

Regarding the ROW T1, it may have had drivers a little too small but it was the first T1 offered in O gauge 3 rail.  The magazine ads hit on a Tuesday and the phones never quit ringing until after 8pm.  Every time we took an order and hung up the phone it rang again, to the point we were laughing every time we hung up. 

By the end of the week we sold 340 of them.  And that was at $1795 each.  

Regards,

Lou N

I had a Sunset EM1 B&O  , it had 2 motors . One was in the middle of the boiler operating the front 4 drivers , one in rear for rear drivers .