Used Train prices

It’s not just trains. It’s all collectibles.

Go price a used car since new cars aren't being made right now.  Have you been to the grocery store?

With the world production of oil and goods coming to a grinding halt during Covid it was bound to take a long time to resume production at a level Pre-Covid.

Then there was the wisdom of starting a trade war with China in addition to US carriers holding drills in the South China sea.  But hey, what does China have to do with goods Americans buy 

John

This is a guess, but with all the ships anchored off port, I'm thinking that supply of new product has dropped thus raising the prices of used products.

I am astounded about what some people are asking for used trains.  But as I often watch listings on the auction site, they are not selling at those prices and after several months get discounted. 

In the meantime, I have still been finding bargains on items I am looking for.  Like always it just takes work.  I just picked up three baggage cars (Lionel and K-line) for a M&E train and the total price not including taxes and shipping was $125.00.  No complaints from me for scale length cars in good used condition. There is one bargain out there I am sorely tempted on, but I have overspent my budget for the month.

Since we live in a market economy, a seller can ask whatever price they like for an item.  We can also chose to pay it or not.

Points in my post above aside, I feel that specifically for O Gauge trains, the semi demise of MTH played a large factor in some of these insane prices.  It would seem that the new Lionel catalogue's prices may not have spiked so dramatically if it were not for a significant reduction in the competition.

Look at what they are getting for MTH subway sets (used ones) now that no one is making them.  A year ago or so new ones were greatly discounted below list.  Now used ones are way above list.

John

@Craftech posted:

Points in my post above aside, I feel that specifically for O Gauge trains, the semi demise of MTH played a large factor in some of these insane prices.  It would seem that the new Lionel catalogue's prices may not have spiked so dramatically if it were not for a significant reduction in the competition.

Look at what they are getting for MTH subway sets (used ones) now that no one is making them.  A year ago or so new ones were greatly discounted below list.  Now used ones are way above list.

John

Being in the train industry, new pricing has little to do with MTH leaving the market.  It has everything to with increased labor costs, increased management costs, increased shipping costs, increased materials costs, and most all of less market for the products.  Brass hybrid is all about lower units. 

I would be careful to separate second hand costs from new costs.  The used MTH inflation factor is merely sentimental like postwar Lionel used to be.  Those prices will correct and when the buyers of MTH tooling start bringing new former MTH product to market.

That sounds promising Jonathan.  Thanks.

John

I think we will see a correction once the former MTH tooling comes to market via Lionel and Atlas.  Yes it will cost more than it used to, but it should bring some stability to the used market.  For the subway sets, I haven't seen who, if anyone has obtained any of that tooling so there will still be some price gouging on certain products no doubt.

I have some Atlas "Premier" special run passenger cars on order from a forum sponsor and I didn't find the pricing outrageous.  It wasn't cheap, but it wasn't ridiculous either.

I can wait, I have more than I can run now, so there's no urgency.

Fortunately for me...lol...I scooped up a bunch before the crazy hit...so I have lots of spares...but...man...I got burgled...the thief got nothing but did damage...so there's that...but still...more is better.

I'm always hunting a bargain but suddenly...there ain't none...lol.

Crazy...man...

You guys may be looking at a particular seller.  I am convinced that that seller (the one with lousy photos on a white lazy Susan platform) is taking stuff on consignment from folks who think all used trains track the 700E.  Jonathan is correct; it ain’t sellin’ at those prices.

opinion

@gibson man posted:

Am I the only one astounded by the silly pricing of used trains and accessories?

It's wasn't a year or so ago that serious bargains could be had...now that has dried up and pricing is...uh...just silly....

What's going on? Has a generation turned and now we're all waiting for the next turn...like when I turn...lol...?

Umm. Its toy train season from now until April York. You want bargains, you have to work and look out for them or wait til May -July 2022.

The secondary market is always volatile.  Used prices are set by the seller and confirmed by the buyer.  As an example concerning trains:

Last year I purchased the latest Santa Fe Super Chief with the two additional cars.  It was my first Lionel purchase ever.  Since Lionel has made everything I could ever think of using on my planned layout, I bought a stack of old catalogs, virtually every catalog from 2000 forward. )I’m only interested in command equipment an, only locomotives with flywheel motors as I came to o scale from LGB and I’m use to locomotives running smoothly at slow speeds.)

I found that a few years back Lionel had issued the same set without remote.  I also discovered that an A Dummy and B Dummy were made at the same time. Using saved searches on eBay, I found both.  I paid $119 for each on separate occasions from different sellers.  Now less than a year later someone bid an A Dummy up to $203. Now you cannot find an A Dummy or a B Dummy for less than $200.  Every one of them listed is now selling for at least $200.  I know because I still have the searches active and about every three weeks or so one or the other shows up.

As long as someone is willing to pay ridiculous prices for used merchandise then people will ask exorbitant prices and get them

As an addendum to this I must add that I don’t know if Lionel monitors the secondary market.  They should.  (I was in marketing for most of my working life and old habits die hard and I monitor everything I’m interested in with the same enthusiasm as when I was working.) Some of the items I’ve found are real opportunities for Lionel or any manufacturer.  

@Craftech posted:

Go price a used car since new cars aren't being made right now. 

John

VERY TRUE... I won't bore you with the long story, but I need to buy a truck to tow our travel trailer.  We saw a used one on the lot that was perfect but the fella would not budge on price.  But they can build me a brand new 2022 truck with all of the same options for $5K less than the used truck.  16 week lead time on the build.

After all the papers were signed, I asked the guy why didn't he just sell me the used truck for $5k less, at the price of the new one?  His reply, "I'm gonna sell that used truck at that price before the month is out, guaranteed.  So I really sold two trucks tonight".

So I'm choosy when buying used trains.  Like GRJ, I already have plenty to run now.  So I can wait for this bubble to burst later on.

Have Fun!

Ron

The prices are insane on everything. Look what ZW-C's are priced on Ebay. I'm more worried about what heating my  home is going to cost this winter. Hang folks it's gonna be one H$% of a ride.

If it’s a bad time to buy, then it must be a good time to sell.

Yeah I have some I’d like to sell but dealing with eBay and shipping stuff is such a headache it doesn’t seem worth it. I’m not retired and I have lots of other things vying for my time.

@Mark Holmgren 110217 posted:

Yeah I have some I’d like to sell but dealing with eBay and shipping stuff is such a headache it doesn’t seem worth it. I’m not retired and I have lots of other things vying for my time.

So why not sell them here on the For Sale forum?  I guess packing and shipping is the same "headache", but there are no fees and the people here are nice.

You have to pick your spots. I’ve bought over 100 lightly used cars over the past year, a variety of modern Lionel, MTH Premier, Atlas and Weaver, mostly freights, mostly C8 to C10 quality, at an average price under $20/piece. And a couple Legacy diesels under $500. I had to view dozens and dozens of online auctions, but if you’re patient, deals can be found.

Prices are all over the place across all makes and scales,not just O gauge. About 18 months ago there were many Prewar and Postwar bargains,now prices on the same items are much higher. Common Standard Gauge,especially AF and Ives is in the gutter. Märklin HO prices in Europe are much higher than normal,in the US,prices are much lower.  It's normal and cyclic,always has been. Give it about ten more years and ALL model trains will be crazy cheap and plentiful.

@Ricky Tanner posted:

Give it about ten more years and ALL model trains will be crazy cheap and plentiful.

Why?

I know sometimes I overpay for something I really want and missed out on when it was released.  I guess it all comes down to how many are out in the market at the time someone is looking for a particular piece.  So yeah some of those prices are crazy!

This is happening in the sports memorabilia market and I think other collectibles markets. Most New products are not abundant on shelves and travel (especially international) is still messy. Mth uncertainty and the BTO Lionel program have also reduced store supplies of trains. Combine this with expansive monetary and fiscal policy and you have nutty prices. While I don’t buy many trains, I wish I would have bought a few things a few years ago. I have a Chessie heritage PS 2.0 sd70ace that still haunts me. It had a slightly bent hand rail and went for a tad over $200 on the auction site that starts with “e.” These prices are a thing of the past.

I have to wonder just how much of the overpriced stuff actually sells for that price. I am sure it happens once in a while but I don't think it happens that often.

I personally haven't been looking for locomotives lately since I bought a new one this year and I bought two locomotives from Harmon Yards. However, I have noticed that (on average) MTH trains prices for locomotives have gone up since the announcement. I remember when you could find the scale wheel steam engines everywhere usually for half of their MSRP. Not anymore. I am mainly a 2 rail guy so I usually don't look at the prices of 3 rail engines but my good friend is 3 rail and he has told me about the higher asking prices for used stuff.

I am currently trying to sell 6 accessories. I looked at the asking prices of other folks and priced mine less than that. I also put in my ads reasonable offers accepted. So people would know that I would go even lower. I haven't gotten a single offer for anything and I had close to 200 views on this board. So I took two of the accessories and put them on eBay. The MTH gas station and the MTH McDonald's. On the McDonald's I found a guy selling one for $200 plus $40 for shipping and it didn't have the SUV that drives up to the window. I saw a few others at $150 or $180. So I priced mine at $130 with Local or York Pick up. My McDonald's has the SUV and it is in great condition. I got 16 views and 1 watcher. Yesterday I lowered the price to $110. Didn't even get another "view". On the gas station I actually researched what they sold for on the bay. They have sold for anywhere between $40 and $120. So I priced mine at $80 figuring someone would make an offer over $55 and I would take it. I also got 16 views but no watchers. Yesterday I lowered the price to $60. Again, didn't even get another "view". Also, I tried to get a quote on shipping the gas station. I packed it up in a box and measured it and weighed it. I always get a quote based upon going from NJ to the west coast. The cost from the USPS was $86. If no one wants it at $80 then certainly no one will want it at $166! The McDonald's is even bigger than the gas station so I don't know how that guy is able to ship it for only $40. The high price of shipping (IMHO) has definitely put a damper on selling larger accessories on line.

Bottom line is I guess no one wants this stuff. My theories are #1) must be so few people left in O gauge that there is no market for these accessories or #2) the few people left in O gauge who would buy an accessory I am selling already have these accessories and don't need it. Other than that I can't really explain it. My next step is to try to sell this stuff at the METCA meet in November but I fear I will be wasting my time there.

I was just looking for this post to comment and there it was at the top of the list!

I am personally appalled at the prices on used train items.  It really makes it hard for those of us who have fixed incomes to build anything of merit.  And worse, it prevents a lot of those who have a genuine interest in the hobby from diving in.  I will say this much, I have noticed that this price gauging (slaughtering) is more prevalent in O scale/gauge than in HO and N.  I find as of late that I wish I had went the HO route instead of the O route.  As many have mentioned, the evil that is the bay is truly the worse and a certain "Z" is a close runner up, the latter being the worst for selling overpriced damaged goods.

I do feel strongly that the major manufacturers contribute to this issue.  They release items that modelers want once in a blue moon and they do not make extra of anything.  I'm certain that there are those that buy unneeded items just so they can sell at a heavy handed mark-up later.  The Atlas Maxi-IV Gunderson sets being a prime candidate.

I'm chiming in this morning only because I looked at buying Atlas Front Runners last night for my IM layout.  The prices were unbelievable and I suspect I'll do good to get more than two in the long run.

Anthony

@A. Wells posted:

I was just looking for this post to comment and there it was at the top of the list!

I am personally appalled at the prices on used train items.  It really makes it hard for those of us who have fixed incomes to build anything of merit.  And worse, it prevents a lot of those who have a genuine interest in the hobby from diving in.  I will say this much, I have noticed that this price gauging (slaughtering) is more prevalent in O scale/gauge than in HO and N.  I find as of late that I wish I had went the HO route instead of the O route.  As many have mentioned, the evil that is the bay is truly the worse and a certain "Z" is a close runner up, the latter being the worst for selling overpriced damaged goods.

I do feel strongly that the major manufacturers contribute to this issue.  They release items that modelers want once in a blue moon and they do not make extra of anything.  I'm certain that there are those that buy unneeded items just so they can sell at a heavy handed mark-up later.  The Atlas Maxi-IV Gunderson sets being a prime candidate.

I'm chiming in this morning only because I looked at buying Atlas Front Runners last night for my IM layout.  The prices were unbelievable and I suspect I'll do good to get more than two in the long run.

Anthony

Don't forget selling on eBay is not cheap anymore.  eBay takes a lot in fees, so sellers build that into the price too (although some prices I have seen are seriously way out there).  If I sell something on there, I just let it ride and 9 times out of 10 someone comes along who wants it.  It can takes months, but its all about timing and who is looking for what and when.

@Sean's Train Depot (Sean) - Do you still have that Lionel Intermodal Crain on your layout? A

@Hudson J1e posted:

I have to wonder just how much of the overpriced stuff actually sells for that price. I am sure it happens once in a while but I don't think it happens that often.

I personally haven't been looking for locomotives lately since I bought a new one this year and I bought two locomotives from Harmon Yards. However, I have noticed that (on average) MTH trains prices for locomotives have gone up since the announcement. I remember when you could find the scale wheel steam engines everywhere usually for half of their MSRP. Not anymore. I am mainly a 2 rail guy so I usually don't look at the prices of 3 rail engines but my good friend is 3 rail and he has told me about the higher asking prices for used stuff.

I am currently trying to sell 6 accessories. I looked at the asking prices of other folks and priced mine less than that. I also put in my ads reasonable offers accepted. So people would know that I would go even lower. I haven't gotten a single offer for anything and I had close to 200 views on this board. So I took two of the accessories and put them on eBay. The MTH gas station and the MTH McDonald's. On the McDonald's I found a guy selling one for $200 plus $40 for shipping and it didn't have the SUV that drives up to the window. I saw a few others at $150 or $180. So I priced mine at $130 with Local or York Pick up. My McDonald's has the SUV and it is in great condition. I got 16 views and 1 watcher. Yesterday I lowered the price to $110. Didn't even get another "view". On the gas station I actually researched what they sold for on the bay. They have sold for anywhere between $40 and $120. So I priced mine at $80 figuring someone would make an offer over $55 and I would take it. I also got 16 views but no watchers. Yesterday I lowered the price to $60. Again, didn't even get another "view". Also, I tried to get a quote on shipping the gas station. I packed it up in a box and measured it and weighed it. I always get a quote based upon going from NJ to the west coast. The cost from the USPS was $86. If no one wants it at $80 then certainly no one will want it at $166! The McDonald's is even bigger than the gas station so I don't know how that guy is able to ship it for only $40. The high price of shipping (IMHO) has definitely put a damper on selling larger accessories on line.

Bottom line is I guess no one wants this stuff. My theories are #1) must be so few people left in O gauge that there is no market for these accessories or #2) the few people left in O gauge who would buy an accessory I am selling already have these accessories and don't need it. Other than that I can't really explain it. My next step is to try to sell this stuff at the METCA meet in November but I fear I will be wasting my time there.

You are largely correct on the price of some stuff. There are engines and a few accessories with outrageous buy it now prices. However, there are no deals via auction like there used to be. Check under the sold listings, the McDonalds has sold for $200 plus $40 shipping. That building reminds me of my last dog. He went there way too often for a burger and ice cream.

FWIW I was at a local train show this past Sunday. Its one of the largest in the area. Most all tables were taken and the parking lot was near filled. Prices were pre covid with many deals to be had. I hope this bodes well for York.

Pete

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

If I sell something on there, I just let it ride and 9 times out of 10 someone comes along who wants it.  It can takes months, but its all about timing and who is looking for what and when.

I've given up on complaining about the pricing.  Everything's posted at a certain price.  The posted prices have doubled or tripled in the last 18 months on many things.  Sean's hit the important point here, especially with respect to the big 'E'.  It usually takes months, often many months, to sell most things, even on more moderately priced items.  Now, on items having vastly inflated prices, it will take even longer.  By and large these folks are not experienced retailers, so they're not really focused on moving their inventory quickly.

As a result I just monitor and wait.  When someone wants to sell badly enough they'll lower their price.  Otherwise they're just using the big 'E' to display their (impressive?) collections.

Actually, while waiting there are occasionally a few reasonable prices to be found, here and there, but you have to spend the time to look through everything very carefully to find them.  Recent changes to the big 'E''s categorization of items (see several other very recent threads) have not helped this situation, however it's still possible to come out ahead.  See, for example:

   Auction Site All Scale Filter Change | PRR Steam

Patience is required.

Mike

@Norton posted:

FWIW I was at a local train show this past Sunday. Its one of the largest in the area. Most all tables were taken and the parking lot was near filled. Prices were pre covid with many deals to be had. I hope this bodes well for York.

Pete

Hopefully. The Edison show in August, some prices seemed reasonable while some others were just out there. I think that this could be due to no shows being the norm for a good while. No one buying what was being sold whatever the prices, so some individuals either decided to press the market by raising their price on items that were just to a bit over or just out there.

Some people still have big prices on eBay at least, and of course their items sit until a deal is reached. An example of this was the VL Niagara. The prices ranged from $2000 to $2900 or so, and not much bite high-end or in between. Some have taken the $2000, but for the most part $1800 has been the offer price that has been taken. One did sell lower than that, but not by much.

Most older items seem to fall into this similar price range of sitting until something is agreed upon. This example of the Lionel 28072 Hudson sitting at prices of $875-$1100 are not selling. All the ones I have watched whether they are bids or straight up sales have always say and been relisted. I can't remember if any have been make an offer or not, but guessing if they were, the seller wasn't willing to take the offer. eBay will still be the out of this world meter that we shouldn't expect train shows to fall into.

I see all this discussion on "shows".  The Fall of the year when I decided to renew my interest in model railroads was the Fall before the pandemic.  The Augusta Railroad Museum Club had their large expo scheduled for May and I was so stoked to attend.  Then the pandemic hit and it was cancelled.  The Club lost its space and now the Club appears to have dissolved.  One of the major Railroad stores I frequented also closed and the closest one with stock is fairly far away.  While it would be nice to attend this "York" thing, I have to work and then there would be the cost of a hotel room and travel otherwise.

So, in short, some of us have no choice but to depend on the evil bay and online retailers for purchases.

Anthony

@A. Wells posted:

I'm chiming in this morning only because I looked at buying Atlas Front Runners last night for my IM layout.  The prices were unbelievable and I suspect I'll do good to get more than two in the long run.

Anthony

In May I tried to sell a set of 4 Atlas front runners for my friend. He bought them in 2 rail and decided he didn't want to convert them to 3 rail. First I tried FB Marketplace. Not even a nibble. Then I went to the evil site. One and only one person had an interest in them. The guy lived on the west coast but wanted me to drive 4.5 hours round trip to deliver the cars to someone he knows on the east coast. Eventually I said I that was too much for me to do. I would have driven a 2 hour round trip to deliver the cars but not 4.5 hours. The guy (actually the jerk) literally drove me crazy by constantly asking for lower prices and then not bidding on the cars. I bent over backwards to try to accommodate him in any way I could because the cars were so hard to get rid of. Finally we came to an agreement and he paid the shipping. After all I did and tried to do for him I never even got positive feedback. Some people just expect you to do everything for them and they appreciate nothing.  After eBay got their ridiculous fees my friend got I think close to $45 per car.

@Norton posted:

FWIW I was at a local train show this past Sunday. Its one of the largest in the area. Most all tables were taken and the parking lot was near filled. Prices were pre covid with many deals to be had. I hope this bodes well for York.

Pete

Cool. That is good news. I will be at York and I hope that trend continues for York and the METCA show on November 6th. I plan to price my items at reasonable prices.

@Hudson J1e posted:

Cool. That is good news. I will be at York and I hope that trend continues for York and the METCA show on November 6th. I plan to price my items at reasonable prices.

Examples of what I thought were decent prices, K-Line 21” ESE cars at 100 bucks each, pre negotiating, Floquil bottles unused at 1 dollar including the most desired by me, Engine Black, Lionel Korean Hudsons at 500 bucks, also pre negotiation. As only the paint was on my list the rest I left for others.

Pete

I'm not anticipating a lot of purchases at York, I think people are still thinking about inflated prices.  I see stuff on eBay and even here on OGR at way more than I'd ever consider paying.  When people are asking MSRP and more for used stuff with no warranty, I can wait for a better deal!

We'll know soon enough as York will be a good barometer.  I have about a dozen items on my list ranging from the newly released Legacy Genset to some older items from engines, rolling stock and buildings/accessories.

-Greg

Too much money in peoples hands thanks to stimulus, plus way too much time spent by people at home during the Covid period drooling over things they want to buy on the internet = very high prices.       Not just on toy trains, but also in the stock market.  (Take Gamestop and Robinhood for example.)

Also, folks who love and insist upon more and more electronic gizmos and features on new trains and rolling stock seem totally willing to pay the higher and higher prices for them, with no end in sight.   "Have ya seen the new catalog yet!  Have ya seen the new catalog yet!"

"Just Say No to Gizmos!"

O Gaugers themselves are solely to blame for higher and higher O Gauge prices.

Mannyrock

@Hudson J1e posted:

In May I tried to sell a set of 4 Atlas front runners for my friend. He bought them in 2 rail and decided he didn't want to convert them to 3 rail. First I tried FB Marketplace. Not even a nibble. Then I went to the evil site. One and only one person had an interest in them. The guy lived on the west coast but wanted me to drive 4.5 hours round trip to deliver the cars to someone he knows on the east coast. Eventually I said I that was too much for me to do. I would have driven a 2 hour round trip to deliver the cars but not 4.5 hours. The guy (actually the jerk) literally drove me crazy by constantly asking for lower prices and then not bidding on the cars. I bent over backwards to try to accommodate him in any way I could because the cars were so hard to get rid of. Finally we came to an agreement and he paid the shipping. After all I did and tried to do for him I never even got positive feedback. Some people just expect you to do everything for them and they appreciate nothing.  After eBay got their ridiculous fees my friend got I think close to $45 per car.

Unbelievable!  That's not even worth the effort.  Unfortunately, I don't have the time to monitor this forum or even the evil site over the summer months due to lack of any free time.  FYI: I just bought two Front Runners, both will need to be converted to 3 rail, one needs some cleaning and the other needs serious repair.