Visionline CC2 Doesn't Smoke

Pro tip, that early smoke system, lower your expectations- it ALWAYS will be low/weak smoke output. It's all about how hot the resistors get and in that engine the regulators never really get it too hot.

Also, you are activating WATER TENDER fill with #3

Blowdown is #6

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...17611154PensyCC2.pdf

Wrong image, sorry again in the manual

For reference, the keypad in Legacy remote CAB2 would display the functions, but it lines up to the traditional cab1 button number layout.

Also press #9 3 times in theory to toggle from ON at low smoke, to maximum smoke level . Conversely, pressing 8 just once in theory won't turn smoke off, it just lowers the level. Pressing it 4 times ensures smoke is off.

FWIW, you might be mistakenly using an old CAB1 overlay or remembering it that way, which now looking has the function 3 and 6 reversed. Again, this is wrong for this engine, and honestly, in my experience, wrong for most modern engines. Water Tender fill is 3, Blowdown sound (and if equipped, blowdown smoke effect) is 6. Again, this overlay is actually wrong for this engine- and I would argue- many engines.

I have a CC2, it smoke fine.

First off, make sure you have enough, but not too much smoke fluid.

Next, set the smoke volume to max.

Setting smoke volume on TMCC locomotives with smoke regulator or for Legacy locomotives using the CAB1 or CAB1L

AUX1, AUX2, 9, H, then AUX2 again to save the setting.  This sets the smoke volume to high.

The L,M,H, buttons are the momentum buttons at the bottom of the remote, they also select smoke volume.

- AUX1
- AUX2
- 9
- <vol> (see below)
- AUX2

<vol> is the smoke volume setting, L, M, or H.  The L,M,H, buttons are the momentum buttons at the bottom of the remote, they also select smoke volume.  

When you're done, you will probably want to set the momentum back to your desired setting as setting the smoke volume affects that too.

Best case scenario for mine, just ran mine at 18V track voltage, smoke to max, MTH brand unscented smoke fluid, and let it warm up a bit. Idle smoke is weak out the main stack, but picks up once moving. It doesn't compare to recent Legacy or MTH whistle steam and the very tiny whistle opening is forcing at high velocity making the smoke harder to see and prone to fluid blockage.

I'll also say, this is the most I've seen my smoke in recent memory. It never fails, If I try to show it off to someone in person or at the club, then the smoke is just barely enough to say it's there, again, nothing like more recent engines.

Again sitting idle, the main smoke is very weak, but picks up once moving.

The whistle steam is forced out the tiny hole in the actual whistle, that creates a very high velocity flow and does make it appear "thin".

Thanks guys for all of your swell help.  I really appreciate it!

I confirmed that the 6 button triggers blow down steam.   I can hear the sound but sadly am not getting any whistle smoke or blowdown smoke. 

1) What tips do you have for making sure the smoke liquid is "enough but not too much".   Is there any way to drain it and start over?

2) If there is a defect, what's the most likely cause?   Blown heater resister?  Plugged holes? 

Thanks again for any ideas.

John

As mentioned above, I would definitely recommend you have a good 18 volts to the track.

Interesting thought Marty.   I'm currently using a maxed CW-80.   I'm hoping to get a ZW-L as soon as I can find one that's not marked way up.

@John Lutz posted:

Thanks guys for all of your swell help.  I really appreciate it!

I confirmed that the 6 button triggers blow down steam.   I can hear the sound but sadly am not getting any whistle smoke or blowdown smoke.

1) What tips do you have for making sure the smoke liquid is "enough but not too much".   Is there any way to drain it and start over?  Yes, remove the little magnetic cap, turn the loco upside down and the excess fluid would drip out. Just ensuring, you did add fluid to the second smoke unit fill for blow down and whistle steam right?

Page 35 of the manual

2) If there is a defect, what's the most likely cause?   Blown heater resister?  Plugged holes?  You said previously you got some whistle steam right? Just not a lot?

The way it works, whistle steam smoke and blow down share the same smoke unit, but each has their own fan. If you hear the fan spinning when activated, then that fan for that function sucks smoke out of the smoke unit and blows it down the tubing. Again, they share a common heater resistor and smoke cup and wick. The 2 independent fans suck smoke out of that smoke generator, and then blow it down the respective path.

I know hard to see but the unnumbered assembly in the middle between #80 and #71 is the combines units. The 2 fans suck the smoke out of the single chamber. https://www.lionelsupport.com/...tive-Only-6101154001

Example the blowdown tubing

Thanks again for any ideas.

John

What could have happened- your smoke tubing for the blowdown is kinked or smashed flat inside the engine from assembly.

If you have whistle steam, or smoke comes out the fill hole with the cap removed- then you are generating smoke.

Also, you have the whistle steam smoke switch on?Again, that switch is valid for both whistle steam and blow down functions due to shared smoke unit architecture.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...17611154PensyCC2.pdf

Page 8

@John Lutz posted:

Interesting thought Marty.   I'm currently using a maxed CW-80.   I'm hoping to get a ZW-L as soon as I can find one that's not marked way up.

This would be suspect as it's probably not delivering 18v with all those smoke units and motor.  Not sure what else you have going.  That's a lot of smoke units going for that transformer.  For testing maybe turn off the main smoke unit and see if the blow down and whistle steam improves.

While you don't want to over fill the smoke units, IMO 20 drops is not enough for any dry standard sized Lionel or MTH smoke unit.  I normally end up with around 40 drops in a new locomotive with a dry smoke unit to get decent smoke.

When I rebuild a smoke unit, before I reassemble it, I soak the wick material.  It takes at least 40 drops before the wick is decently wet enough for good smoke.

You guys are awesome!

Thanks to all the great advice here I was able to determine that both the whistle steam and blow down fans are kicking in.   

* After adding a little more fluid I got the blow down steam working!   Thanks guys!

* Still can't get whistle steam to appear.  I did notice that some fluid was actually being blown up through the whistle.   It's puzzling if blow down works and fluid can get up to the whistle why smoke wouldn't get up to the whistle.   Hmmm.

Again, said it before, will say it again, the whistle path is horizontal and small diameter. This path, liquid drops will form a wall, and the incoming smoke wind will blow this into a wave, that then blocks the path. You have to forcefully blow or suck down that path, thus forcing out this excess fluid, and only being pure smoke can now travel down the path.

Blow down the tiny whistle hole from the top, or place a clean cloth over it, and suck up ( the cloth acting as a filter so you don't breath in smoke fluid).

This applies to most whistle steam paths- but in this engine, the scale nature of the final exit is worse than others.

Again, the 2 factors- horizontal path- tends to allow drops to sit and form in the path and overall diameter of the path.

The black plastic molded tube path direct out of the fan- again, dead horizontal rising up at the final end. Sorry, this is just the low resolution picture Lionel provides from the parts site.

then even the tiny scale hollow whistle.

Again, look at the distance from the smoke fill location, to the final exit of the whistle- mostly horizontal path.

Sounds like you're still getting the whistle steam tube blocked by fluid.  This is not uncommon for many locomotives with whistle smoke, and the CC2 with the tiny hole in the whistle is especially bad.  That being said, I did a quick test of mine, and I get a pretty good stream of smoke from the whistle.  However, due to the velocity of the stream, you don't see it for several inches from the whistle until it slows down.  I do note that the stack smoke takes a bit of time to get to full volume, doubtless it needs some attention to the smoke unit.