Weaver Brass Soldering Repair

A torch will burn the paint. A resistance soldering tool will cause the least damage.

Pete

Pictures help a bunch.

Picture is worth a thousand words so here are 4!

The cab is separated from the boiler as seen here from the bottom. The red arrows show the 2 brackets that support the bottom ladders / skirts of the cab which broke free from the cab floor. I put white paper in the broken solder joints to help it show up in the pic.

View from the back of the cab of the same brackets

Looking next at where the cab and boliler attach, there is a slot in the boiler and a tab in the front sheet of the cab that goes into it. The screw hole behind the slot hole looks like it had a screw at one time to hold the cab down to the boiler but there is nothing in that space in the cab for a screw to go into. Just some empty space then the roof sheet. I'm guessing there was a brass block or tab here originally with a screw hole.

A better look at the tab on the cab. I see a lot of glue residue so no doubt someone probably tried a quick fix in the past.

I bought this because I always wanted a Royal Hudson, the price was right and I like to tinker and fix stuff as part of the hobby. I also wanted to see what a brass engine was like. While this one is far from perfect, it is certainly not a junk box find and deserves to be put back together right. I try my best to 'do no harm' so depending on the feedback I get I may try to fix it myself or if it requires expensive special tools I might send it to someone who can do it right.

Thanks again all!

I am not sure you can save the paint regardless what sort of soldering tool you have. From here it appears the only recourse is to strip the paint, make the repairs and repaint.

Pete

It’s stuff under the csb floor so repainting that area black does not seem too bad.

Wonder if some very thin bolts with nuts thru the bracket tip and floor would be better?

What about attaching the cab to the boiler? Any idea how that would have come apart?

Pete

A torch is going to be indiscriminate, ….it will not be forgiving,….you’re working with sheet brass for the most part in this repair. As mentioned by Pete, you’re looking at some paint work irregardless of the procedure you choose. Resistance soldering will apply concentrated heat to the small areas you wish to repair, ……my concern when I hear the word torch, and sheet metal of any kind, is the warpage that can occur from too broad a heating surface …….if you warp those parts, it’s curtains……brass loves to suck up heat,…..and sheet brass will curl up very quickly,…..just because it’s brass doesn’t mean you can’t use JBweld if applied in a correct manner……cleaning all that old glue off, having a good clean prepped surface, is a must either way. If you decide to go the JB weld route, clean all the pieces properly, apply the cement where the bond will be the strongest, rubber band, or zip ties to hold the work pieces together firmly, and wipe off excess to leave a clean looking seam line ….knowing you’ll have to go back, scuff, and repaint those areas,…..personally, I’d solder it back together, but definitely put the blow torches down, they have no place in this exercise,……😁

Pat

Research various brass soldering techniques.  An example is linked here.   Then remember what Henry Ford said.  "If you need a tool and don't buy it, you will still pay for it".   Correct tools, a  little practice and good to go. 

Hi really enjoyed your brass solder Demo! how much is you power supply cost you used.

Alan

From the pictures, there has been attempted repair with CA (Cyanoacrylate) Super glue.   If you are going to solder, a very good clean-up of previous repairs, needs to be done.  IMO, Mike CT.   

Extensive repair, with heat/solder, would require, at the least, a paint touch-up, or more extensive paint work.

@VHubbard posted:

Research various brass soldering techniques.  An example is linked here.   Then remember what Henry Ford said.  "If you need a tool and don't buy it, you will still pay for it".   Correct tools, a  little practice and good to go.

One note on the video for those of us west of the pond, the melting temperatures of the solders used are given in centigrade, not Fahrenheit.

Pete

Degree C (Centigrade, or Celcius) =  (Degree F-32) X 5/9    I could be wrong, and often.  Mike CT.

Or simply do a Google search for Celsius/Fahrenheit converter.

Pete & I were so thoroughly impressed with Rob Bishop’s tutorial, we both ran out to our workshops and made that grounding plate that Rob demonstrated in his video!!…..WOW!….I’ve been resistance soldering for close to 40 years, and never thought to do that, ……never too old to learn something new,…..about to put this baby through it’s paces, first on some scrap, then to fix a couple pesky parts on a project ……..neat stuff!..thanks @VHubbard for posting the link!!…

Pat

Echoing Pat’s comments. Thankful to Rob Bishop and @VHubbard for showing this. Mine is not quite as elegant as Pat’s. Made from scrap wood and some old electronic chassis but tested it and it works great. The resistance tool is homemade as it the transformer box. They don’t have to cost a fortune if you can find a suitable transformer.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Echoing Pat’s comments. Thankful to Rob Bishop and @VHubbard for showing this. Mine is not quite as elegant as Pat’s. Made from scrap wood and some old electronic chassis but tested it and it works great. The resistance tool is homemade as it the transformer box. They don’t have to cost a fortune if you can find a suitable transformer.

Pete

What do you mean not as elegant?…yours is even complete with a electrical shock hazard warning placard, ….die stamped on your plate!!…..how elegant is that!!….

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

just because it’s brass doesn’t mean you can’t use JBweld if applied in a correct manner……cleaning all that old glue off, having a good clean prepped surface, is a must either way. If you decide to go the JB weld route, clean all the pieces properly, apply the cement where the bond will be the strongest, rubber band, or zip ties to hold the work pieces together firmly, and wipe off excess to leave a clean looking seam line ….knowing you’ll have to go back, scuff, and repaint those areas,…..personally, I’d solder it back together, but definitely put the blow torches down, they have no place in this exercise,……😁

Pat

Exactly. Most of my soldering is electrical, but I have done some structural. Solder is "better" than epoxy, but epoxy can do a fine, non-destructive job, if you have a clean, good-sized contact patch.

I decided to go for it and solder them back. I stripped the paint off the cab floor and supports. The original solder could be see. On the cab floor. I used a 160w gun which was probably just big enough with the thickness of the supports. I used acid flux and a little extra solder and it seems to be holding strong even with me giving it a decent stress test. I’ll sand it a little to smooth it a bit then paint only what is needed. Thanks for the encouragement!

before pic. Sold solder was under and behind the supports. I added solder all the way around for a bit extra strength. I’ll add an after pic soon.

Nice, ….looks like you nailed it, ….wipe up any excess acid flux with a damp rag & alcohol before sanding & painting ……this way you’re not smearing flux all over your work piece …..nice job!….next!!…

Pat

I'd hit the soldered area with a toothbrush with your water/alcohol mix and thoroughly clean it.  Any flux left behind will screw up the painting.

@Norton posted:

Echoing Pat’s comments. Thankful to Rob Bishop and @VHubbard for showing this. Mine is not quite as elegant as Pat’s. Made from scrap wood and some old electronic chassis but tested it and it works great. The resistance tool is homemade as it the transformer box. They don’t have to cost a fortune if you can find a suitable transformer.

Pete

What would the specs be for a suitable transformer?

For resistance soldering you want high current and low voltage. 250 watt is a good minimum. Commercial ones can be had in 500 and even 1000 watt versions but 250-500 watts should work on most train projects. If you can find a 250 watt, 125 volt primary to 5-6 volt secondary that would give over 40 amps. By comparison a 500 watt transformer 125 v to 18 volt secondary only is capable of 27 amps. So pay less attention to watts and more to secondary amps.

I control mine with a variac. The video posted above shows a power supply with various taps. I assume there are either multiple transformers in the box or a transformer with multiple taps not unlike some pre war train transformers.

BTW if you google “making a resistance soldering tool” you will find many web pages plus youtube videos on how to make them

Pete