Weaver Empress 2816 Calamity!

Probably a TAS, (Train America Studios)  EOB (Engineer On Board) Drive system.  There should be detailed instructions about  setting chuff rate, and operations.

@WRW posted:

Yikes. 😕

Not the first word I used, but hey, close enough!

Rod

The tender board appears to be EOB. Did you take the shell off the engine? EOB would have a tach reader on the motor like MTH PS2/3. Only a few factory engines got puffing smoke generated by the EOB board before MTH put the Kaibosh on that. Only the EOB sold as kits got that feature. Factory engines had to rely on chuff switches on an axle cam for puffing smoke.

Pete

@Norton posted:

The tender board appears to be EOB. Did you take the shell off the engine? EOB would have a tach reader on the motor like MTH PS2/3. Only a few factory engines got puffing smoke generated by the EOB board before MTH put the Kaibosh on that. Only the EOB sold as kits got that feature. Factory engines had to rely on chuff switches on an axle cam for puffing smoke.

Pete

Yes Pete I have the engine stripped, and yes it has a system very similar to PS-2 on the motor flywheel. Will have another look for something like a cam or chuff switch on an axle. Must have missed it. Thanks. Have you seen Gary lately?

Rod

The TAS (Train America Studios), EOB Engineer On Board, system had an intense, install and adjustment manual.  At one time it was part of the electrical forum.  I looked, it's no longer part of the forum, the technology is 20+ years ago.  34 Pages, I found my paper copy, this morning, 3/11/2021.   Section 5, EOB operating instructions,  5 pages.   If you want a copy, I could mail it, unless someone, has the tech-ability, to find it on the forum.  The operating instructions were also part of the paper work, owners manual, of any, new, in the box, Weaver model, that was done with EOB electronics.  Mike CT.   

The TAS EOB instructions are still on the TMCC forum in the last "sticky" but about 99% of the engines sold with EOB don't have the chuff rate driven by the tach sensor. Only those who had their engines upgraded to EOB by TAS or did it themselves have this feature. Most all engines sold by Weaver and 3rd Rail have cams and chuff switches if they even came with fan smoke. The programable chuff has been disabled on these engines. You can hit keystrokes all day long and nothing will change.

Pete

I had a look for a cam or reed switch chuff trigger; came up blank. Nothing. So the chuff must be triggered off the motor tach strip, perhaps calibrated to occur in time with the running gear action. I won't get a chance to find out until Its all fixed up and back together.

The TAS smoke unit has quite a bit of circuitry onboard, including 4 TO-92 transistors, a 470 uf cap, an 8 pin dip package, etc. There's a lot more to it than what's neded to merely make 5vdc to drive the fan motor, so it would be nice to know what its capable of. Does anyone know? The only electrical connection to it is 2 wires to supply power, to a 3 pin JST-EH header.

Rod

Rod, The info is here. When you get the engine back you can try playing with it. A few Weaver and 3rd Rail engines do have this feature before MTH cut them off for infringing on "their idea". The software not only allows selection of the number of chuffs but also fine tuning for the exact number per revolution. Of the half dozen or so EOB steam engines I have, only one has the programable chuff feature.

Pete

@Rod Stewart posted:

The TAS smoke unit has quite a bit of circuitry onboard, including 4 TO-92 transistors, a 470 uf cap, an 8 pin dip package, etc. There's a lot more to it than what's needed to merely make 5vdc to drive the fan motor, so it would be nice to know what its capable of. Does anyone know? The only electrical connection to it is 2 wires to supply power, to a 3 pin JST-EH header.

Rod

The 470uF is obviously the DC filter.  The 8 pin dip is a microchip PIC.  It was programmed such that when a chuff pulse came in, the fan motor would drive and when the pulse stopped the motor would run in reverse for 50mS or so to make the chuff distinctive (suckback).  That's what the four transistors do; they're a motor drive H-bridge.  Some smoke units had a steam/diesel jumper.  In diesel the fan would idle and when motion was detected the motor went to full speed. 

Lou N

@Norton posted:

Only a few factory engines got puffing smoke generated by the EOB board before MTH put the Kaibosh on that.

Pete

Sorry it wasn't quite that harsh.  Mike Wolf, Mike Reagan and I had dinner at Hofbrau House outside York and decided we'd rather make money than spend it on the lawyers.  So we sorted out the details of who could do what.

Lou N

@Lou N posted:

The 470uF is obviously the DC filter.  The 8 pin dip is a microchip PIC.  It was programmed such that when a chuff pulse came in, the fan motor would drive and when the pulse stopped the motor would run in reverse for 50mS or so to make the chuff distinctive (suckback).  That's what the four transistors do; they're a motor drive H-bridge.  Some smoke units had a steam/diesel jumper.  In diesel the fan would idle and when motion was detected the motor went to full speed.

Lou N

Lou thanks a bunch for this explanation; right from the source! That helps a lot. So  if I open up the diesel jumper on the smoke unit, and jumper it for steam, then all that's needed is to bring the chuff signal forward from the eob board to the unused connection on the 3 pin header. And that should produce puffing smoke in sync with the chuffs, right? If so, what connection on the eob board should be used? I have studied the pinouts on the eob board a bit. Or do I need something like the Chuff and Puff interface board?

Thanks for any help, Rod

Rod,

I have to do a little research.  I did not design the EOB, just the smoke unit in this case.  I will get back to you.

Lou N

I believe Mike Reagan told me there was a way to extract a chuff trigger from the EOB boards, I'm looking for the document now.  It was an undocumented feature, a pin on the uP.   I can't find the reference to it, but I remember thinking that might be useful.

So after reading up on the EOB and TurboSmoke manuals, it does appear that bringing the "chuff" signal forward from the 4 pin smoke unit header on the EOB board should make the smoke unit puff in time with the chuff signal. Well, after selecting steam instead of diesel on the smoke unit that is. The only BIG unknown in all of this is whether the EOB board programming will allow a puff signal to be generated I guess. There is an 18 pin DIP on the EOB marked V 2.0, in case that means anything. Is there any way to identify if this version allows for a smoke puffing output? There's not much sense wiring the signal forward if the EOB won't produce the necessary signal.

There is even a spare pin in the 10 pin tether harness that could be used for the signal.

Rod

@Rod Stewart posted:

So after reading up on the EOB and TurboSmoke manuals, it does appear that bringing the "chuff" signal forward from the 4 pin smoke unit header on the EOB board should make the smoke unit puff in time with the chuff signal. Well, after selecting steam instead of diesel on the smoke unit that is. The only BIG unknown in all of this is whether the EOB board programming will allow a puff signal to be generated I guess. There is an 18 pin DIP on the EOB marked V 2.0, in case that means anything. Is there any way to identify if this version allows for a smoke puffing output? There's not much sense wiring the signal forward if the EOB won't produce the necessary signal.

There is even a spare pin in the 10 pin tether harness that could be used for the signal.

Rod

Mike Reagan and I talked today and determined that turbo smoke will work with EOB when wired per the EOB instructions to the 4 pin header. 

Thanks for your patience and thanks to all those who offered up suggestions.  That was 20 years ago.

Lou N

That looks panful!! 

@Lou N posted:

Mike Reagan and I talked today and determined that turbo smoke will work with EOB when wired per the EOB instructions to the 4 pin header.

Thanks for your patience and thanks to all those who offered up suggestions.  That was 20 years ago.

Lou N

Lou I want to offer my sincere thanks to you for taking the time to research this with Mike R. on my behalf. I will for sure follow up on the forum with how it all works once I get her back together.

I just got the repaired engine parts back from my good friend @albertstrains, and he did a really great job with it. Everything is now straight and true and repainted where needed. I am really glad I did not attempt these repairs by myself. Now I can hardly wait to get her working again.

Rod