Weaver - my first attempt.

Welcome.

I'm not sure about your Pittman situation-all of mine have been great.

There are many guys here who can help you figure this out.  I'm sure they'll come forward.

Nice looking locomotives by the way...

Hi and Welcome to O gauge and the forum.  I have many engines with Pittman motors.  They all run well with no problems.  

NH Joe

Thanks, Guys.

It ran sweetly on DC, but it doesn't like the PWM of the decoder.

Any ideas as to how to get the photos into the text?

Cheers

Max, 

Welcome to the forum!

Some PWM make the motor hum and hot. 

check the motor temp. if is too hot means the PWM is not doing a good job.

I have few of those pittman and they are working without a issue.

my 2 cents.

Andre.

Those Pittman Cans are super motors in my opinion.    Similar models of Pittmans used to be in many computer printers.   They would last for ever and even then you can salvage the motor when the printer wears out.

It might be something about the signal from that decoder, or even maybe it is set in "switching" mode and sending a modified DC signal that is pulsating.   

You get annoying humming when you run straight DC locos on DCC power.    So maybe the decoder is not passing on straight DC to the motor.

Max, which model of Loksound decoder are you using?

Also I have not found the need to add an idler on stock Weaver drives, but every Weaver Pittman drive I have seen had cracked sprockets causing very rough running and high load on the motor each time the crack comes around.

I use most of the tips and tricks here for smooth running:

https://bobsobol.smugmug.com/T...018664&k=jxLWMHq 

HTH    

Pete

There is a guy who goes by bob2 on the forum that knows quite a bit about Pitmans. Some are better suited than others. Hopefully he will turn up.

Simon

Hi Pete

I'm using a Loksound Select.  A commonly used decoder by members of the Loksound group, for O scale locos.  I've also used V 4's, but not this time.  I record my own sounds and make sound projects, so I'm very experienced with them.

I'll be very disappointed if it has cracked sprockets, as it's new; straight out of the box.  I'll tear it down and have a look anyway.

Thanks for the link.  I'll have a look.

Is there anywhere I can get help with my earlier question about the photos?

Cheers

Hi Andre

Which sound decoders are you using?

Cheers

Hi Simon

That guy could be the one in Pete's link.  I had a look at it.  Lots of good info there Pete.  If/when I sort the BEMF issue, I'll be having a closer look.

Cheers

To answer your question about photos, try this.  Within your posting box, type a little info and then add an attachment here, being sure to check the box so that all pictures are added within text before completing that upload.

Then, type a little more info and choose to add another attachment, doing all the same things you did for the first attachment.

After each attachment upload, you have to remember to check the box about inserting photo or video into the text of you message, and then click the "Finished" box which puts the picture into the message and takes you back to the Post Message or Post Reply screen.  Then, hit your keyboard "Enter" key and add more text as you choose.  Finally, remember to scroll down to the bottom of the Message or Reply box and press "Submit," and your info should look like above.

I used some pictures of our 30th anniversary vowel renewal in Hawaii last October to demonstrate.

Chuck

Thanks, Chuck.

I was going back to the spaces and trying to insert the photos then.  I'll have another go soon, using your instructions.  Looks like you had a great time. 

Thanks, Pete.

There's lots to check out there.  I appreciate your help.

The DC is regulated smooth.

Cheers

Max,

I am not running decoders I just running a remote control that basically is a decoder made by GML.

Crack gears will make hesitation at any speed, but more noticeable at low speeds.

As peter M say, rotate it manually and also disconnect the drive shaft from the motor and test the motor empty.

Andre. 

Thanks, Andre.

At least I will know what to look for, now.

I'm off to do some surgery. 

Cheers

The locomotive may be new to you but Weaver quit making that horizontal drive about 15 years ago so not really new.  My guess is that PD Hobbies http://pdhobbyshop.com is now the owner of that drive mechanism as they have been selling and supporting it ever since.

The idler idea has been around for a long time for the reasons you cite and it would be nice if Pat @ PD would make one available, but not so far.

"I'll be very disappointed if it has cracked sprockets, as it's new; straight out of the box."

  I'd be surprised if it doesn't have cracked gears. Unless someone has changed them it's almost a certainty. Get replacements and learn to install them is the normal solution. These drives are very easy to troubleshoot and repair.......DaveB 

Thanks, guys.

Looks like I've got a job ahead of me.

No wonder it was so cheap. 

Cheers

Thanks, I've ordered a new drive and a motor with ball bearings.

It's still a cheap loco and it will run well I'm sure, with the new drive.

Pat was very helpful by email.

Cheers

Well, looks like the loco is covered.

P&D is kind of local for me, but one of those shops that I can never seem to catch open. (Wild Bills too).

   In ten years, they've been closed every time I got there, and once I took a day off for it, and they had a slot or RC event going, and I couldn't get in to shop.

  I gave up trying to "catch" them. Good luck.

 The photos appear at the posts end, but can be cut and pasted into the text in the right spot.

 As you click on the photo, white parameter boxes will show, now cut and paste it to a new spot.

 If you don't check the "appear full sized in test", then they will only show as attachments at the bottom.

  Click the attachment options at the post bottom if you change your mind, or if you wanted a smaller version of the photo to appear(there are size choices there).

  Embed video with the "film strip" at the top.(You tube adds some code on occasion. Anything in front of "http" should be erased from the url or you will see the OGRF page in the preview instead, and it wont work.   

Thanks. 

PeteM said everything I would have said.  Pay attention to the motor number - the rare earth magnets are a significant improvement for two bucks more - and Pittman still sells the Alnico motors! 

Weaver cheaped out in two places - first, with motors, and then with non-aged plastic.  Using an Alnico motor with solid bearings in an application where radial force is applied is a no-no.  Charlie pIttman Jr. told me that personally.

Aging the plastic before machining is why NWSL and CLW gears rarely split.

Thanks Bob.

Max: I gotta know... Did you find cracked sprockets? I've been worrying for 2 weeks about this!  

Sorry Pete

I looked at the P&D offerings and bought the rebuild kit based on the improved motor.

I'll pull it apart today, I promise! - and get back to you.

Cheers

Hi Pete

I haven't disassembled the tower, but visually inspecting the sprockets with a super bright LED torch, shows no cracking in the sprockets.

Turning the drive by hand, it looks as though the teeth might have some rough edges, as the chain links look like they are catching on them.

When I had this problem with the P2K HO locos, often it was necessary to take the gears off the axles and force the cracks open using an O ring pick, before you could see them.

I really don't want to strip the drive until the kit arrives, so I might see more during the rebuild.

I hope that you can cope until then. 

Cheers

I'll keep taking my meds and hope to pull through...

On a more serious note, I did wonder f I saw a roll-pin through the top sprocket in your first picture. Maybe it's an "improved" version if so?

Also, I have found 3 other things that seem to apply to all my sets, based on Bob Sobol's excellent work.

1. The centre lines of the top and bottom shafts are not parallel. The top shaft's boss seems to have been angled down a little in the tower design. This causes the chain to always be pulling at an angle to the teeth, no matter how well you align top and bottom sprockets. Definitely a cause of constant hum/noise. 
2. The sprocket boss is too narrow on one side. This means the chain sticks out beyond it and rubs on the washers supplied. Definitely a cause of constant hum/noise. Bob S made some top-hat washers to create clearance - see his pics on Smugmug. I don't have his skills and equipment, so I use sleeves cut from brass tubing between the sprocket boss and washer.  
3. Some replacement sprockets are cast not machined, and have the mould halves mis-aligned so the teeth are too wide for the chain. I don't think you have this issue though.

Apart from that, it's a great drive system!    

Cheers,

Pete

Hi Pete

Thanks for all of that.  I expect the kit to arrive this week  P&D are not great communicators, so I'm watching and waiting.  I'm used to that in South Oz.

I'll sit down with all your advice points and hopefully make a good fist of it.  Having an engineering background, I agree with your assessment that it is potentially a good drive.

In the meantime, I'm plugging away building my new layout, so I'll have somewhere to run it. 

Cheers  (I hope the photo works)

Just an update, so you know I'm still alive. 

I ordered the drive kit from P&D on August 19th, but so far it hasn't arrived.  Pat is working on it from his end, as well as me from mine - but after all this time, I think it's lost.

Pat has offered to send me a replacement.  I think that's the way it will end up going.

Good service.

Cheers

Hello,

On your last photo, is it made for a pier or something like a harbor?

And, for me who is far away from your country, what is "SouthOz"?

Hi JPV

The scenario is a waterfront with an ocean going tug boat moored to the dock.  I'm thinking of doing a thread on it as I build it, but I've wanted to watch others to see if that would be appropriate on this forum; before I attempt it.

Oz is what we call Australia,  so I'm in South Australia - right down at the bottom. 

Cheers

 That answers things about others occasions where I've heard that before.

Thanks for the grin 

Hi Max

Thanks for the information on the waterfront; it's a good idea! and it would be a good thread.

And I believed that SouthOz was a place in the USA!!!! I was absolutely wrong! you are farther than I thought!!! you are exactly at the opposite side of my country if you look at a planisphere!

Hi Max,

Sorry to hear about the lost drive. Pat is a great guy and will look after you I'm sure. I have had nothing but great experiences with P&D over 20+ years.

I recently found another upgrade to the drive towers that gets rid of the down-slope of the top shaft and adds double ball-bearings to it. It also provides an adjustable-height tower to achieve perfect chain tension with any sprocket combination.

I don't think it's allowed to post their URL here, so PM me if interested. The parts just arrived so I'll post some pics once I get into the job.

Pete

Thanks, Guys.

I've kept progressive photos as I've gone, so it should be easy enough.  SWMBO is off to the Dragon in Law's this arvo (Sunday), so I'll have a go at it when we get back from taking the dog to the beach.

Thanks, Pete.  Yep.  I think I've bookmarked that product as well.  Pat's been very helpful.  I didn't want to ask him to send another one until we've exhausted all other possibilities; but it's looking like it might have to happen.

The layout will keep me busy in the meantime. 

Cheers

Well, Pat and I have been working at this for a while now without finding the lost parcel.

Pat has sent me another kit FOC, which arrived today.  I've agreed to return the first one if it ever shows up. 

Great service, Pat.     

In the meantime, we're still looking.

I'm away with the band on a road trip until next week, so I won't get a crack at it until then.

I've been plugging away on the layout in the meantime . . .

https://ogrforum.com/t...73#44510795592058273

I love playing Bluegrass, but I can't wait to get back to modelling. 

TTFN

OK.  Here we go - after a hiatus.    Pat was very good about the lost kit and sent me another one straight away.  Would you believe it?  A couple of weeks later, the first one turned up.  I've sent the spare one back, before anyone asks. 

Anyway, I've checked the Weaver tower and the sprockets have no cracks.  What happens, is that the chain hangs up on the teeth end then jumps as it releases - in both the Weaver and the P&D!

Here they are, side by side . . .

I had made up a brass idler, which stops the chain wrapping itself around the top sprocket.  That stops the lashing action which was causing jumpy movements in the loco at Notch one.  The P&D one has the wrapping around syndrome as well, so I could change the idler over - or keep the Weaver one.

That's what I've decided to do.  I'll have spare sprockets is I ever need them.  The seller gave me a bunch of spare chain, so I'll be OK with all the spares I've got. 

Pat  sent me an upgraded motor as well.  The motor in the Weaver was struggling with the Loksound decoder (more like the other way around), so I'll see if the new motor improves things.

I've laid 5 metres of track on my new layout, so I'll have somewhere to test it out.

Thanks for your interest.

Wish me luck.

Well, I gotta tell ya.  I'm starting to understand why Weaver went out of business.

I've replaced the bits as above and the loco runs very well at slow speed, but above notches 1 and 2, the drive train rattles very loudly.

The sound of the frequency of the rattle is the same as the tail shaft rotation - but the rattle is coming from the rear drive truck.  I 'end for ended' the square brass shaft, and checked it with a straight edge, but that hasn't helped.

The rattle is coming from the rear truck (the one with the chain).  It's nearly loud enough to drown out the sound decoder.

Experience tells me that I might need to disassemble the gear boxes between the wheels as there is a lot of play there.  Adding shims might help to tighten it all.

A very disappointing product.

P&D replacement to the rescue.  In the box are some spare axle/gearboxes.  Simple process to pop the old one out and pop a new one in.

It's reduced the rattling significantly.  Now if I run the sound decoder, I can't hear it.

The new motor Pat supplied has improved the decoder performance, but I'm going to have to upgrade to the Loksound L version to get rid of the groaning sound completely.

I might set Pat's chain drive up with an idler to replace the old one to see if I can eliminate the rattling completely.

Sheesh!  This O gauge lark is a challenge! 

Cheers