Weaver Troop Cars,who has warping problems?

Pine Creek

They are not going to do another run unless we as group push Williams.  

Buzz

If they offer a Boston and Maine troop sleeper baggage car and/or the Bangor and Aroostook bay window troop sleeper caboose, I'm in.  Was disappointed that at least the B&M version was not offered.

So far I'm a perfect four for four, all of mine are wrapped and broken!!! The one I tried to disassemble crumbled, floor crumbled, truck side frame  crumbled, underfloor frame broken, body shell is cracked, pretty much a total loss, may salvage one truck.

WEAVER SHOULD MAKE THIS RIGHT!! I do not want credit, I wanted these cars!! My father rode these cars, or similar ones to and from Oakland CA to the East Coast in 1942 and returned in 1946 having served in the Army Air Corps in Europe. They mean a lot to me, more than ever upon his passing in 2013. I too had ordered more of theses cars.

Now do I have to purchase multiples on the secondary market to build the few cars I want?, and just wait for the Zinc Rot to show later? JOE HAYTER,WEAVER DO THE RIGHT THING offer complete undercarriage assemblies at no charge!! I will gladly send Weaver my "bag of broken parts".  

RWDeano

 

 

Buzz,

Very well said. No more Weaver for me until they step up and stand behind their product. The$49 is not the issue. They should fix the $80 car.

 

 

Strasburg is a little too far from Lakeland TN for weekend train show trip.

My email is in my profile. I sure would like a set.

 

Thanks,

Richard

Amen Brother Deano, amen!!

Richard

 

Well, I checked my four Weaver( troop sleeper) express cars. With this discussion going on I am not sure why I did not check these four cars sooner . The REA car may have a small sign of warping. The NYC  express car is looks to be ok. My Pennsylvania Express car and CN car are warped and separating form the car body. 

 

Maybe we need to post a poll on the forum and see how many owners of troop sleeper cars have this problem. Maybe Weaver will take notice and find a solution.

 

Richard

I would like to know some car numbers, i.e.; identify the run. I have six cars from the second run; Troop Sleepers 7022, 7672, 8077, 8162 and 8196; Troop Kitchen Car K-499and just checked all six, they are all fine!

 

Was this an issue from the early run? or a production batch? 

 

My personal experience with the folks at Weaver has be nothing but positive. In fact not only did they help with any issue, but work along with my input for many products. The DL&W Pocono, Lackawanna Cabeese and some of the piggyback cars.

 

In fact Gary did some warrentee work on a competitors engine that the other person conferred with Joe to do in order to expedite the repair.

 

I'm sorry to see others with this issue, and....I would be sorry to see my six cars screwup years from now as well. My dad was in the 3rd Army Armored Division, a little group called the 701st. They had special Ops Tanks and trained in secret at Camp Bouse Arizona, he traveled to and from NJ on troop trains, so my 6 cars were a dedication to his service. I hope they stay as built.

 

SAM

Weaver is not the only mfg to have this problem.   Many of the older ones had it at times.    I have about 6 Atlas O reefers that the trucks distintegrated on, and one of my two 53' GACX Express cars fro mAtlas O also had a truck disintegrate.

 

There are lots of horror stories about some runs of Post War Lionel where the zamak was not right and disintegrated.    All Nation had some happen too.    And some of the old diecast Athearn trucks disintegrate.

 

I'm not saying it is good and should be accepted, but if Weaver should do something about it, why shouldn't Atlas O.    Unfortunately All Nation is out of business.   I don't know what Lionel does about such stuff.

 

I have had very positive experiences with Weaver.    Joe Hayter even sent me some paint when I called and said the dull coat was not very dull.    And Gary has done some repairs on their products for me under warranty.

PrrJim

 

The issue with trucks falling apart is an easy fix. I had an MTH 70ft mail car that ended up with two trucks that crumbled in my hands. MTH replaced the trucks. I now have an Atlas 40 foot steel reefer with a second broken truck bolster. So far no luck in finding a replacement bolster. Atlas claims to have lost access to the tooling for the 40 foot steel reefers and they can not reproduce the part needed for the reefer.  

 

As you well know, those troop cars were expensive. Weaver's offer for a $49 refund is a good start. It is  just not fare to us who have spent some real money on the troop sleepers / express cars. I would be happy with a plastic replacement frame for my troop / express cars. I could always add weight and remove as much detail as possible from the warped troop/express car frames and add the detail parts to a plastic replacement frame.

 

Weaver may have to spend a little money to produce a replacement frame, but when a company does the right thing for their customers they are rewarded with customer loyalty.

 

Richard

 

Tonight I looked at the warped troop sleeper frame I salvaged the trucks from a while back. There are three small screws that hold the center seal on the metal frame. The center seal includes the bolsters for mounting the truck, and much of the break detail. The remaining under body detail parts can be punched out.

 

Weaver would only need to produce a frame that is tapped with the holes for the body mounting screws, the four screws for the center seal and the detail parts attached to the underside of the frame. The air tanks and other under body details could be glued back in place.

 

There is one problem with this solution - For those of you out there whose troop sleeper / express car plastic bodies have also warped there is no alternative but to ask for a full refund for your damaged cars.

 

Now, I am not a design engineer, but gee Weaver, how hard could it be to produce a replacement frame for the troop sleepers and express car?

 

The world wonders

 

Richard

 

PS: if these things ran on the city streets and highways they would have been recalled!

After noticing cracks on 2 of my 3 cars, I dismantled them to prevent further damage. Very disappointed. I'm pretty much soured with Weaver. $49.00 credit with the return of the bad cars does not cut it for me. With shipping I paid almost $100.00 bucks per car. SMH 

Here you can see the slight warp or bow in the car. Also where it started to separate on the end of the hospital car. 

 

 

 

As a note, When I removed the screws holding the shell to the frame, the metal actually "popped" and split into 2 pieces on 1 car and into 3 on the other car. My 3rd car is showing a slight sign of Banana shape but no cracks in the shell and the metal floor was removed in 1 piece. I'm very glad I caught them in time before any other damage was done to the shell. I'm still thinking of a way to build a frame myself.

I took a much closer look at my four cars (3 sleepers and 1 kitchen) this afternoon.

There is no damage to any of the shells and all cars sit flat on the track.

Just to make sure that there was not any warping to the frames, I dissembled the shells from all the frames:

• sleeper 7020 - no damage and frame appears to be straight.
• sleeper 7679 - no damage and frame appears to be straight.
• sleeper 7276 - no damage and frame appears to be straight.
• kitchen car 162 - no damage and frame appeared to be straight.  However, when I went to screw the shell back on to the frame, I noticed it rocked 3/16" from one end to the other!  I guess that unscrewing the shell from the frame allowed the frame to release its energy and bend.

My suggestion would be that if anyone has troop cars that look to be in perfect shape, to go ahead and take off the shells anyway, just to be sure.  Better to know now if the frames are warped before they damage the shells.

 

Maybe if we post the number of our cars and if there is any warping to the frames, we could find any commonality in the problem.

 

These are beautifully done cars and I forgot how detailed they were until I took another look at them this afternoon.  I am sorry to see and hear the severe issues that some of y'all have had.  I am grateful for this thread as it has saved the shell on my kitchen car.

 

Jim

Well I guess I will take my two express cars with warped frame apart this weekend and hope for Weaver to eventually do something. Who knows how bad this problem really is? - Could this warping problem effect every troop sleeper / express car ever made by Weaver? How many O gauge folks outside of this forum have cars that are damaged?

 

 Richard

I have 4 troop sleepers, one troop kitchen car, and 3 express cars. Checked them all and found the frame on the kitchen car warped and I could see cracks developing. Based on what others here have posted, I decided it would be best to take the frame out before the body got damaged. The frame apparently had swelled and was stuck tight. Eventually I had to break the frame (which was real easy) in order to get it out.

 

This is real disappointing as I really liked these cars. I hope this problem is limited to only a small percentage of the cars made, but from the number of posts the problem appears to be widespread. I like Weaver, but I think their $49 credit offer is a joke. These cars cost more than $49. Fabbing a frame out of styrene doesn't look too hard, but its a hassle for a problem Weaver needs to come up with a solution for.

 

I guess I will have to keep checking the other cars and pull the frames if they start warping.

 

Ken

Hard to believe that the whole troop car line has not been contaminated by the ZnPest. I expect that all cars may be affected eventually fail over time.  Apparently the producer was not aware of or didn't care about the contamination of the castings.  How many members would be willing to participate money wise in the cost of having Weaver correct the issue with new run(s).  In reality Weaver probably can't afford to repair these on there own.  To me the credit is useless. Plus they expect you to ship the car back, which is probably another $10 per car for individuals.  Does anyone know with any certainty how many cars were actually produced and what the minimum run numbers would likely be for another run.  Or, Who owns the dies and are they useable.  Unfortunately these are some of my very favorite cars.

Buzz

Buzz,

 

Personally, since I only have a warped frame, I would be willing to purchase a replacement frame from Weaver (at cost) and fix my Kitchen car myself.

 

It's a bit more complicated for those folks who also have cracked shells caused by warped frames. 

 

At this point, I'm done with Weaver until they at least address this problem (please note, that I'm not saying until everything is fixed 100%, althought others might feel this way. 

 

I think that every one of us who has a problem with their Troop cars need to send an e-mail to Weaver stating so.  I intend to send mine this evening.

 

Jim

I have three of the troop cars. no warping so far. dont know when I purchased them.

I have had some of the ladders warp and break on some atlas box cars.

I don't understand why these cars would have a metal frame to begin with.

Buzz,

The Baltimore O Scale Society (aka BOSS) had 450 Weaver troop baggage cars made as convention cars for the 2009 O scale convention. They were an exclusive run of B&O and REA red diamond scheme cars and were made in both 2 and 3 rail. BOSS  sold over 200 of the cars and the remainder were sold to Justrains of Delaware at the conclusion of the convention.

 

Obviously Weaver made far more cars than that, but our group alone accounted for 450 troop baggage versions.

John

 

I'm lucky in that I don't have any shell damage, just a warped frame.

 

I really, really, like these cars, and don't wish to send them back to Weaver, let alone the dealer I bought them from.

 

If Weaver was willing to ship new frames, I would be happy to attempt to fix my car myself.

 

Actually I would like four frames, as I have an uneasy feeling that my three good frames may become problematic in the future.

 

Heck, I would even be willing to pay cost for my new frames, figuring that they should cost about $10 each.

 

Jim

Well guys, I got around to taking apart my Pennsy Weaver express car. The frame was warped to the point that the under frame detail part on which the truck bolsters are mounted snapped in two when I removed the car body. I think the broken under frame can be saved. Here is a picture of the frame after I removed it.

 

 

 

 

I removed 4 screws holding the underframe (truck bolsters) detail and all of the detail parts from the frame. It was an easy task. The parts simply came right out of the frame when the metal around them crumbled with one tug. The break line piping detail is a total loss but the break cylinders and vale detail parts can be reused. 

 

It looks as if Weaver is not going to provide any relief to their customers who have purchased these expensive cars.

 

I met with a friend yesterday who is craftsman when it comes to working with brass models especially in 2 rail O scale. I showed him my damaged troop car frames and explained to him the problem we are being confronted with now and in the future regarding this car.

 

He examined the damaged frame and the good frame. He believes since the under frame detail with the truck bolsters can be removed from the frame a brass replacement frame can be machined with all the necessary holes needed to mount the car body along with tapped screw holes for mounting the under frame. 

 

This may be a solution since the silence from Weaver leads me to believe that a resolution on their part is not coming. 

 

I have no idea as to the cost of a brass replacement frame. However, I would like to know the number of owners of the Weaver troop cars / express cars who would be interested in this fix. I hope to have more details soon. Anyone interested in this idea can respond here or shoot me an email at the address in my profile.

 

More info to come.

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

 

I spoke with Joe, the owner of weaver, on Friday.  I will follow up and discuss more details of that discussion in a week or so, please be patient. But, I believe he is a responsible manufacturer who made some really great looking cars, and that is why a lot of us are so bummed out about them. He thinks that there are only a handful of defective cars out there.  I expressed that it appears to me and others that there was way more than just a handful. I believe he will address this forum shortly, I hope.  He is concerned about any issues that relate to his products.  I think he needs time to review the situation and facts about the issue and possible helpful solutions.  One point I probably forgot personally was how old some of these cars are. That time window is a significant complication in a good solution.  

Buzz

Richard and those following the 3D print aspect:

I checked and my printer will not be able to make that in one part.

However, I could make 2 interlocking parts for the floor in one print pass.

A 3 view drawing of the part would be optimal, I could then add the holes for the details to be added in the correct locations and sizes.

 

My printer will be accurate to within 0.004" so a little tolerance will be needed. I can make the holes on the small side so parts can be driven in or make them large for glueing in, Your call.

 

I'm not sure how much something like this will cost but surely it will be less than $49 per floor. I do not intend to recoup the printer cost, simply the consumed material & postage.

The printer is supposed to Ship 5 Dec. I'm having a hard time waiting...

I have a list of things I want to try printing.

Just for the record, I have four cars also sidelined with warped frames. I have heard of other fellows with this problem too.!

Train Chief,

 

As someone mentioned above this problem is sure to effect every Weaver troop sleeper / express car made.

 

Weaver's silence on this problem is deafening .

 

Richard

Russell,

 

I bet you are excited! I am very interested in this solution

 

Richard

Sorry guys, I am reading these posts form the bottom up in my email.

 

I only have one Weaver engine, and I love it. I have many of their high end freight cars, RPO's and baggage cars. All are great products. The troop sleep/ express cars are some of my favorite Weaver products.

 

There is no simple fix for the troop sleepers. Hopefully a solution will be found quickly.

 

Richard

Buzz,

 

If you haven't already, please point Joe towards this thread.

 

I would say that the folks at Weaver are mistaken if they think there is only a handful of defective cars.  For some cars, the damage is readily apparent as it has lead to damage shells.  For other folks, the warped floors are not even apparent, until the shells are removed from the frames.

 

My count of folks responding to this thread is that while 3 forumites report no damage to their troop cars, a whopping 11 forumites report warped frames.  This is a whopping 78% of folks on this thread reporting damaged frames.

 

Jim

Just following this thread.  I also have 1 out of 3 of my troop cars with a warped frame that cracked the body. 

Would be nice to see some kind of resolution on this.  While these cars are very nice when released, they were expensive also.

For those tearing them apart to find the issue, I found if I take a picture in low light with the flash on my iPhone, and them zoom in, I can instantly see the issue with spider cracks in the paint indicating the rot issue, not easily detectable by the naked eye.

Mike

With Mike's post, we are now 3 forumites without problems and 12 forumites with problematic frames.  So, 80% of folks responding to this thread have cars with warped floors.

 

Jim

No problem with one troop sleeper.  the future is an unknown to me.

Alan

A friend of mine has a string of these cars, maybe 12, and at least half have bad floors.   He has talked to Ron sebastian at Des Plaines hobbies about making replacement frames from clear Acrylic sheet.   Ron has a laser cutter I think to do this.   they have made a prototype and are working on the holes and finalizing other issues.    the prototype has only holes for mounting to the body but the fit was perfect. 

 

This might be a solution.    the price is expected to be less than $20, but more than $10.   

Jim,

 

Thanks for keeping a count. Now how to we factor in the number of folks with defective troop sleepers / express cars who are not part of this forum.

 

Thanks,

Richard

PRRjim,

 

I have looked into the possibility of having a metal frames produced here in Memphis. I think the price will come in at a little north of $28. This would include all of the holes necessary for mounting the body and under frame center seal which contains the bolsters for mounting the trucks. My friend is working on a brass prototype so we an make sure everything will fit correctly.

 

Will your source for a frame include the mounting of the under frame center seal? The metal frame would help replace the weight of the original frame.

 

Thanks for helping us find a solution to this problem. I guess this is where I am finding Weaver's lack of action such a problem. Their customers are having to find a solution to a problem that could be easily solved by Weaver. Weaver is in business to "make things" 

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

More bad news went into the train room only to find number 2 has gone banana shape & a cracked floor. So only time before I loose #3? So if you have any please check regularly.James

 

James,

 

This is so sad, unnecessary, and could have been so easily mitigated by a product alert issued by Weaver to dealers and customers.  They could have warned us to be on the lookout for this problem, and to un assemble the cars in order to prevent the body of the car from being damaged while a resolution the frame failure was developed.  

 

Has anyone stopped to wonder if the real reason for canceling the latest production run of the troop car line by Weaver was the failure of the frames on the previous production runs?

 

The metal frame I have a friend working on is showing some promise.

 

Will there be any way to fix the warped bodies?

Happy Thanksgiving.

Richard

James, Wow, your frames are warping big time! The you catch the second one before there was damage to the shell?

 

So, my count is now 13 folks with damaged frames and 4 with no apparent damage (at least for now).

 

I'm ready to assume that all these cars, sleeper and express cars have the potential to have damage in the future. 

 

My cars are on display on the layout and I occasionally run them, but I am seriously thinking about taking them all (4) off the layout, taking the frames off the cars without apparent warping (3), and putting them away for now.

 

I really like the uniqueness of these cars, and would like to get two more sleepers for my troop train and a B&O (or REA) express car for one of my passenger trains.  If we can work out economical pricing for replacement frames, I want to replace all 4 of my frames and might be in for 7 frames.

 

I would still like to see Weaver step up the plate and offer replacement frames for these cars, even if they are at cost.

 

Jim

Has anyone stopped to wonder if the real reason for canceling the latest production run of the troop car line by Weaver was the failure of the frames on the previous production runs?

Nonsense.  The real reason was a lack or orders relative to the minimum number needed for the builder to do a new run.