Weaver Troop Cars,who has warping problems?

Neville,

I used Evergreen Plastic stock to make new frames for my weaver express cars. I found that lining up the various holes was much easier when using plastic.

Another word of caution,- be careful when you take the cars apart. The center sill for the car can be easily be broken when you take the car apart.

Remove the four small screws holding the center sill on the frame before you attempt to remove the car body from the warped frame.

I would go ahead and take your cars apart now.

I still do not know why Weave will not step up and do the right thing for their customers.

Richard

Uncle Fester,

I will post a picture of the repair I made to my Pennsy express car tonight when I get home. I am pleased with how the repair came out when using the Evergreen plastic stock.

Richard

Richard

Neville,

one more thing - when you remove the center sill you will need to remove the various break detail that are attached to the frame and are also attached to the center sill. They will latterly brake off of the deteriorated metal frame. They can all be re used, but you will more then likely need to replace the wire used to simulate the break piping.

Richard 

Hi Richard.

It's distressing not only for the cars but for me.

The first one I pulled apart after levering the plastic bunks carefully off the base broke in three pieces and the centre sill also snapped in half.

Next one's I do I will do what you said and unscrew the sill.

Using styrene would be better to work with and I will keep my brass for my Red Caboose diesel base's.

Yes it seems everything you do with O you have to change or modify and I have been with USA O for just on 30 years.

I too wish that Weaver would issue a statement about this we all know technically that Weaver didn't cause this but they must take responsibility for something, 49 dollars is not taking responsibility maybe new bases with instructions shipped out to customers is taking responsibility I would have to be satisfied with that.

Just for interest the cars that are warping are the first batch they are a darker green than the later one's just had a look at the rest the later one's are warping as well!

Looks like the six of them are going I would take a photo but not sure how to post it no doubt at this stage no one on this thread would want to look at it anyway it's such a sad thing.

Neville. 

Neville,

Here are the pictures. Some are in this thread. I used a Canadian National express car to "experiment" on in order to see how the plastic replacement frame would work out. the second picture shows the plastic blanks and the good frame that was used to make the blanks.

 Here is the fame with all the brake details reinstalled. I had to use Evergreen plastic stock to make mounts for the brake cylinders, air tanks and valves. I used brass wire to make the connections. The brake lines are close to the original look of the car. I also used Evergreen plastic stock to make the detail part that  hangs down from the frame at each corner of the car. I am not sure what the purpose of these items were for on the real car.  The car next to the CN car is my REA express car, which has not shown any signs for warping - yet. I used it to guide me in reinstalling the brake detail part on the plastic frame.

The frame I rebuilt on the CN care was actually for my Pennsy express car. Here is the paintd rebuilt frame ready to be installed on the Pennsy shell, and the frame, and the shell reinstalled on the car.

Here is the Pennsy express car back in revenue service.

I hope this helps.

Richard

I just thoroughly checked both of mine.  No warping.  Matt

Richard:

Earlier in this thread you mentioned using Evergreen sheet plastic of 0.80 thickness.  I cannot find that thickness on their website.  I find a thickness of 0.080 and the most thick is 0.25.  Am I missing something?

http://www.evergreenscalemodels.com/Sheets.htm

Neal Jeter

Neal,

Sorry, it must be 0.080. I will have to double check and get back with you. A friend purchased and cut the stock pieces for me.

Richard

Boin,\

Very nice scene.

Richard

Thanks Richard.

I will sort myself out with this in the meantime........

The Military have put a guard on the cars until the enquiry is finished!

There are all sorts of rumors going around the base about this.

Neville.

Sorry about the duplicate photos only new here still learning.

If you look at the hospital car just above the soldiers head is where the warping has started the other car is obvious.

Neville.

Richard, nice job on the repair.   The pictures are a plus for anyone planning on repairing their own cars.

Matt, did you take the shells off the frames? This is the only way to really tell if there is any warping.

Jim

All,

  Wishing I got on line more often.  Just read this post of the issue with Weaver troop cars this morning.  I have seven of them, kitchen, hospital and guard cars.  Will be checking them later today when I have time to be in the train room.  Thanks to all for the input and suggestions for possible fixes.  My condolences to those with warped frames, ruined cars.  They are very nice and the reason why they were purchased is same as many have expressed.  I will be checking back and on line more often in future, together we can assist many in the hobby.

Again, many thanks and best of good fortune for us all.

Take care, keep a clear track ahead and God bless...

Jesse

Neville,

I love it! Laughed out loud!

You need to remember that when it comes to Government contracts we are dealing with the lowest bidder. in fact back in my US Army days we had had a set of "Murphy's laws of Land warfare", one of which was "always remember that the weapon you were issued was built by the lowest bidder."

You have indeed  solved the mystery about what caused this problem with the troop cars in the first place - Weaver used the lowest bidder to produce the run of troop cars with the warped frames.  

Richard

Jesse,

Let us know the condition of your troop cars when you can. Hopefully  your cars were not part of the bad production run.

Jim,

The frames on my two express cars were warped to the point that the end of the frame where the warped was located actually caused the truck to bend back up into the shell of the car.

Thanks

Richard

Not just Weaver. There are guys on here saying their Atlas Master Line cars have failing details as well plus someone had a picture of a disintegrating MTH steamer recently.

Neal,

Those pesky Zeros always get in my way. You are correct, I should have stated the thickness of the Evergreen plastic stock as 0.080, not 0.80

I think there is plenty of it out there.

Sorry for causing the confusion,

Richard

Jim,

Yes,

I have an Atlas Master line 40ft steel reefer with a disengaged truck bolster, and so far no help from Atlas. I also had a MTH 70ft RPO on which the trucks fell apart in my hands. MTH took care of the truck issue for me.

Richard 

Thanks Richard glad you liked a bit of humor after all this.

At least with the Weaver cars it's not the end of the world as you have proved. I have started to take my other cars apart but not the cars that look right but I intend to replace all the frames or floors like you have done.

One positive? thing that has come out of all this I have started to post on the OGR forum again it's been a while.

Thank you for sharing your solution to what is a very sad problem for Weaver and us the consumer.

I have bought lots of Weaver cars over the years because my layout is about operation and the cars are handled a lot the Weaver cars with cast details are not damaged easily I will continue to support Weaver in the future lets hope they try to keep most production in the USA in the future.

Neville.

Neville,

Let us know how your repairs go.

Richard

Here's my two cents...

I have eight cars...

U21000SD  #7000, 8199, 8156, 7270,    Troop Sleepers

U21051SD  #K-600, K-739, K-499,          Kitchen Cars

U21100SD  #8770,          Hospital Car.

K-739 has a dated price tag:  09/29/09.  This would be the date it arrived in the particular store purchased from.

None as yet are warped.  Near as I can tell my cars are all first run.  Not that this has anything to do with it, but I also store my cars vertically in their boxes.

FWIW

All,

  I finally located two of my Weaver cars, both Signal Dept type.  Yes, they were warped and I disassembled them, saved the bodies, but the cast frames are trash.

I have more of the other type troop train cars, need to find what box I stored in last year, then also take apart and hope to save the bodies and under frame details.

Add one more to the list!  I opened my undecorated express baggage (2 rail) car, and initially all looked OK.  A closer look and I noticed that some of the center sill and ribs were not touching the floor.  I went ahead and removed the shell.  The shell was undamaged.  After inspecting the shell, I observed that the floor had noticeably changed shape since removing the shell!  I separated the trucks, center sill, couplers and brake details from the floor.  I also removed the plastic sheet glued to the inside of the floor.  Again, I could observe that the metal floor had changed shape some more, bowing upward while twisting lengthwise.  The floor did not break apart and at this time there are no visible cracks in the metal.

I intent to make a plastic floor to replace the metal one as has already been explored in this thread.  I am a scale modeler and purchased this model with the intentions of modifying it so this extra effort isn't too much of a big deal for me, but I can sure understand the disappointment of others who have invested in their collections and are seeing them dissolve! 

Yikes!  This has got to be tough for Weaver!  I don't know how many of these cars are out there, but the real world reality is rectifying this could severely hurt Weaver!  Of course not doing anything will have the same outcome!  If it were me, I would offer something like a $25 cash rebate (customer keeps the car) and quickly develop a suitable replacement part locally (don't bother with original manufacturer) that can be offered in place of the cash.

I am sorry I did not report as I said I would, that I had spoken a second time to the owner of Weaver Models.  I was just discouraged that his concern was IMO very low, that I felt it wasn't really worth reporting.  He said that, as he promised he would try to get the manufacturer to research what dies and molds they had in the inventory. He was trying to get 250 new frames.  He said that the old manufacturer wouldn't even spend the time to look for the parts unless he would do a full order, that being I guess a minimum of 1000 orders.  He supposedly has to order first and then they tell him what they have and what additional dies and molds will have to be remade and that cost is just added on to the car price.  It seems really *** backwards to me. Weaver doesn't know or control the die and mold inventory.  But I have heard this same story from others in the business. The factories are so massive that no-one knows where things are or if they have been thrown out. He may try to do another run if enough subscribe to the offer.  He also said he would respond to OGR, I haven't seen that either.  Joe also complained how difficult is to deal with China, and that is why they will no longer be making any GP 38's, they can't get the parts. Rick Bacon's thought about a $25 clean rebate to help fund our personal repair project seemed great.  I doubt that will happen because I'm certain that some would take advantage of the offer and ask for the refund regardless of whether they had damage. You could verify with pictures but again their might be sharing.  Certainly the $49 credit along with the need to return the car is unacceptable.  Weaver does have some very nice looking cars, I personally just can't reward bad behavior.  I don't think it would make much of a difference if they did address OGR, but not doing so just shows how little importance this problem is to Weaver.  Maybe there will be incentive enough to bring back manufacturing to the USA with all the new manufacturing of CadCam and 3D printing.  

I certainly hope the Lionel Big Boy is Zn Pest Free.  Do you think that Lionel would make good on that issue?

Buzz

Neville,

Glad to see you back mate!

Hi Richard.

Definitely not questioning your repair method I think it's great but..

080 thou is about 2MM I was thinking if I left the WEAVER interior plastic piece out maybe 3mm (I/8) would be better.

Does your Weaver car have a plastic floor in it I can't see what purpose it serves in the enclosed troop cars, the sleepers with bunks yes.

I have cut a length of 2mm to use on the sleepers because you need the plastic interior.

I am also wondering what type of glue to use originally when this problem occurred I thought the Chinese glue was attacking the die cast causing it to crumble but I don't think that is the problem.

Look like they use some kind of "contact" glue.

So many questions when will this saga end!

Neville 

Neville,

The car I repaired was an Express Car. The original car came with a plastic sheet glued to the metal frame. This plastic sheet had holes in it in order to allow the 6 mounting studs to go through it. On the express car this plastid sheet is slick and really only serves a floor for the car. I did not replace the interior plastic floor in the Pennsy express car.

On the troop sleepers, kitchen cars and hospital cars this plastic floor also includes the interior detail of the car. Since the .080 plastic floor is close to the thickness of the original metal floor the plastic floor with the interior should be close to its original height. Remember the replacement floor will only go to the depth of the car body allowed by the 6 body mounting studs - So do not make the car mounting holes in the replacement frame too big.

I would use Testers model glue (no glue sniffing please)) to secure the two plastic floors together, and only "tack" the floor and frame together in a few spots. Do not use any form of Supper glue. If Weaver can find a way to reproduce the metal frame you will want to be able to easily separate the interior floor from the plastic frame.

Well, as you can see my technical writing is not very good at all. I hope this makes a little sense.

Richard 

Richard. You made plenty of sense I understand.

I will go ahead with the first floor using 080 thou styrene sheet.

In Australia we work in metric so I'm sort of in between all these measurements but I still have my micrometers and verniers in the old imperial as well as metric.

I hope for your sake America doesn't change to metric, be good for me not for most of the USA population!

I want to get this project out of the way as soon as possible I have better things to do with my modelling time.

My cars are 2-rail so I am going to fit the couplings closer so that the cars are nice and close when coupled up seeing I have to drill new holes this is the time to do it.

Thanks for that.

Neville.

I got around to checking my other troop sleepers today.  I bought a set of six from the second run.  All six are normal with no signs of warping.  I have three cars from the first run.  The troop sleeper and kitchen cars have no warping.  The hospital car was severely warped and I disassembled it last night.  I will now order some .080 plastic sheets to do the repair as Richard has described and shown.

Neal Jeter

Based on these responses, it would appear that it doesn't matter if it's a first or second run.  So...  every one of them is at risk   Sad situation.

I'm doing one when I'm happy with the size of the floor and the holes are accurate I will use that as a template for the other five cars, regardless of any damage. (three are really bad two are OK? and one looks doubtful all different runs going by the paint color) 

I like the cars and I like to see them running so I'm prepared to spend my valuable modelling time fixing them, like Richard I'm not prepared to wait for Weaver to make a decision.

Nev. 

Neal,

I am glad to hear you only have one car damaged car. Please post pictures of your repairs, same for you Neville.

Have a good week,

Richard

I had the trucks disintergrate on a K-line heavyweight coach.  Just crumbled away.

I have 2 of the affected cars from about 2008 but mine are good so far.

I took the shells off for a while to see what happens.

How long can it take for this problem to present itself?

Thank You

This has been well documented for months on the floor issue. Yes weaver has never stepped up to the plate on this issue that I know of.

I was hoping someone would produce a floor for these before my dad passed away, but sadly I lost him Feb 12th and the cars never got put back into service on his layout for him to enjoy.  Sucks...

I have other projects on the go at the moment and have had to put this modification aside but I did notice that a hobby shop in Des Plaines is thinking of making the floors.

It could be Des Plaines Hobby shop? or something like that sorry did not write the name down.

I have cut the material out of 080 thou styrene but that's as far as I have gone at the moment.

I wish it was Weaver doing this though. I have always supported them heavily and it makes me sad about knocking an American O Scale firm like this even though I am an Aussie living in West Australia I still support American firms and purchase almost everything from the USA even though the freight is a killer nowadays.

I am going to buy some of their US Army boxcars even after all this drama.

Neville.

Carguy sorry to hear of your loss....Weaver could easily make new floors for its customers or maybe Des Plains hobby is doing it for them? I have at least 20 cars and so far have found one car with a bowed floor. I only have the Express version but it looks like I will need to purchase a floor for each car...Nothing like opening a car and finding that it has a gross defect...And like others have mention. The cars were not cheap.

Dennis

To add to this post. My father gave me a manual operating 027 Lionel boxcar in the 50's. Remember the little guy who opened the boxcar door...Well this car is over 60 years old with a stamp metal floor and still works like the day I opened the box...Yes, faded but good to go....

Dennis

This reply came into the OSCALEMODELERS list on Yahoo:

>Mike Brestel wrote:
>
>While at the O scale meet in Chicago on Saturday I was talking with Ron
>Sebastian of Des Plaines Hobbies. He told me that he is ready and willing to
>produce new laser-cut acrylic floors for the Weaver troop cars. As you may
>remember, the Chinese pot metal used to cast these floors is defective and
>the floors are crystalizing, resulting in possibly severe damage to the
>plastic bodies and the underbody detail. Weaver has no replacement floors
>for these cars.
>
>So if you¹re looking for new floors for these cars, drop Ron a note. . . . .

>
>Mike Brestel
>Cincinnati OH

Their website is <cite class="_Rm">www.desplaineshobbies.com/</cite>

I hope this might help someone.