Weaver Troop Cars,who has warping problems?

That is what they said!

Richard

Gentlemen, If someone comes up with a solution or has a plan to have a replacement made, count me in. I will purchase 3 frames.

Richard & Jim Thanks, The shells seem to go back a lot on their own, the first shell I did need a bit of pressure & super glue to hold the cracks together.

The second car today hopefully I managed to save as only the guard rail across the door was pulled out of the frame, will see if a bit of warm water will reshape it. 

Look forward to see if any solutions can be found re remanufacturing new floors.James   

Uncle fester,

I hope to have brass prototype frame produced soon. If it works I have a source lined up that should be able to produce a metal frame.

lets keep our fingers crossed.

Richard

There's an old saying about not asking a question you can't stand the answer to. Well, I had to know if any of the floors on my cars were warped. I kind of wish I hadn't. One of my three sleepers is bad.

Has anyone seen the zinc rot problem on the frame, not just the floor?

I was looking over my seven cars again and noticed the center part of the frame on one express car was bowed downward at the center of the car. I also found the bolsters were bent slightly downward toward the car ends. I figured the floor must be warping which was causing the frame to bend, so I took the car apart and found the floor to be OK. I took the screws holding the frame to the floor out and sure enough the frame had a large bend in it. Straightning the frame out was pretty simple by putting a screw in the center of the frame through the floor and securing it to the floor, however the bolsters are still bent down. When reassembling everything I broke two of the braces that are perpendicular to the center sill. These were easy to glue to the floor, but they did break off very easily. I wouldn't be surprised if the frame warping continues the additional screw will cause the frame stress at that point and cause the frame to break somewhere.

The warping of the floor is a major problem, but the floor is flat and making a replacement not all that difficult. If the frame fails, the car is pretty much done.

Ken

I had the same problem. I replaced the floor with a floor from a MOW car I picked up at from Just Trains.  The floor and the spine are separate parts so I made a new floor from Evergreen styrene and put the MOW car back in service.

Eventually the body will warp under the stress from the frame. If anyone has these cars I recommend you check the frames for warpage.  If you fond one, separate the frame from the body until you can repair it.

Jim, Ken, Richard E,

Thanks for letting us know the status of your troop Sleepers / express cars.

The number of known cars involved in this problem continues to grow.

Richard G.

I just checked my B&O express car and it is perfect.  The frame and spine were not warped or bowed.

Thanks Bill,

I am glad to hear your express car is OK. Keep and eye on it. 

Richard

Add two more to the warp count, my dad rode these across the US from DC to California to ship out in the US Navy in WWII, I bought him many of these and I bought two warped MOW cars to swap 2 rail for 3 rail trucks, my 88 year old dad, being the clever soul that he is took the warped floors, split them in the middle and took a section out of them. Leveled out the remaining sides and made a brace plate above them. The bodies went back into shape after being apart for a while so with a set of Lionel 3 rail trucks added the MOW cars were put into service.  Unfortunately now looking over our 3 troop cars one is starting to warp now....so count me in for new floors !  I bought a lot of Weaver products over the last 4 years but I did not get anywhere with them on this issue and their recent run of wood side gondolas went on sale and I ordered only to be ignored, told they were out of stock, then ignored again now acting like no order existed....not sure what happened  with Weaver but I am going to pull back as well to see what the future holds. 

Thanks, Richard.  I plan on checking it often for problems.

I seem to remember that Williams also had a problem similar to this with there EMD E units. Does anyone else remember that?

I have 19 Weaver Express Reefers and have checked two cars so far. One has the bowed floor and one is ok. The rest are in my attic...If Weaver or anyone else makes a replacement floor; I will replace all reefers with the new floor....Weaver should have used steel floors.

Thanks Dennis

So when I checked out the kitchen car look at the suprise I had waiting for me !  Small crack in the body, once I took it apart it sprung into a banana shape.

This one is just starting ever so slightly on the left between trucks and center.

Maybe someone could send a link for this thread to Weaver?

Hi Guys thanks for the support. Have change the heading as a result of a suggestion off forum so hopefully more people may see it as the problem is listed.

I must say I do not hold out much hope but if some of the replacement floors get made that would be great.

James  

Has there been any progress in speaking to Weaver?

I will follow up with Joe at Weaver on Monday to see what he has heard from the manufactures on the frame replacements.  My understanding is that communications are difficult and locating the original molds and dies is also difficult.  The manufactures are disorganized and really won't make an effort to try and find the needed dies and molds until there is an order, then they make an effort.  You can see how the build estimate can change, by whether or not they have the old manufacturing parts and equipment.  Even though Weaver may actually own the dies and designs they do not have physical control of them, that is just the way it is.  Not good for Weaver or the consumers.

Thanks for your patience,

Buzz

Since Weaver advertises "Made in the USA", why can't they produce a plastic frame themselves? Again, in my opinion, this is the way it should have been done to begin with and the consumers wouldn't have had to suffer this aging debacle.

How many owners are out there that do not read this forum and have no idea what is happening to their beautiful troop car?

Another thing that I found odd was that all of this controversy popped up soon after so many forum members jumped on the "Oh! I'll buy one" bandwagon after Weaver canceled the production run for lack of orders.

First off, Thanks James for renaming the thread!  I though you guys were discussing getting Weaver to do another run and I was oblivious to the defect.  I have 4 troop cars, and thanks to this thread found one to be in bad shape!  It is an extremely banana'd Erie MOW car numbered 454015, from first run, as are the other 3.  I will try to post a picture if I can learn how, this URL stuff is puzzling to me!  The warping broke one of the door grab bars from the plastic, and severely bent the other one.  Did this defect also include their RPOs?  If so, I'm afraid to look!  I will need to force the floor from the car, and like others have stated, I'm sure it will come out in pieces. Obviously this is a wide spread defect.  I don't know which commentary from Weaver is more preposterous, "only a hand full", or the insulting $49 credit.  Count me in on the replacement floors, and hey Weaver, thanks for nothing, we're through!  I must say Gary has always been most accommodating in the tech department.  I guess I'll start taking the shells off the remaining cars until a replacement remedy will hopefully be found.

Stack 

Big Jim, I think that shows the power of social media, in this case the internet.  The original post by James got us all to look at our troop/express cars.  James' post likely saved at least one of my cars from damage as the shell looked okay, but releasing the shell from the frame allowed the frame to release it's energy and warp. If I had left the shell on the frame over time the shell would have become damaged as well.

Current update on the folks replying to the thread:

• 18 folks report damage to one of more of their cars
• 5 folks report no damage

So, in summary, 78% of us report a problem so far. 

This doesn't mean that 78% of our cars are showing in damage at this point, but, rather, 78% of us have at least one troop/express car with a bad frame.  If it is a metal contamination issue, I think it is a fair assumption to assume that if we purchased sets of cars, that the frame issue is likely to be an issue in the future, even with our "good" cars.

Jim

p.s. I have no interest in a credit of any kind for my cars (even at full purchase price).  These are historically unique cars, and my wish to get mine repaired.  Heck, I would even like to add a couple of more to my troop train! 

I have monitored this thread since the beginning as I have a significant investment in these Weaver cars.  Today I went in search of my cars that had been packed away.  Of my 26 first run cars, 9 have warped floors. 

I did a visual inspection while the cars were still in the box.  Sometimes there was a distinct bend to the car or the edge floor was visible.  I did notice that with the sleepers and hospital cars the guardrail on the side doors would pull free through the sidewall of its mounting hole.  I did not see any cracking of the shell.  I did not remove any screws from the cars that appeared fine.  This would only increase my number of defective cars.

As I recall, the warped floors are confined to just the first run cars.  I didn't purchase all of the offerings but here are the model and car numbers for those that I have.  Perhaps these will alleviate some peoples concerns.

U21000 Troop Sleepers (2 warped):  7000, 7270, 7673, 8072, 8199, 8150

U21051 Troop Kitchen (1 warped):  K-400, K-499, K-600, K-999

U21100 Troop Hospital (0 warped):  8746, 8768, 8769, 8733

U21202 PRR MOW (1 warped):  495745, 495740, 495743, 495746

U21401 REA Express Reefer (0 warped):  2004, 2005, 2007, 2009

U21404 PRR Express Reefer (4 warped): 2004, 2005, 2007, 2009

I agree with the speculation that there was a bad batch of pot metal used in one run of frame castings. 

In the golden years of model railroading I was once told that the number of cars necessary to do a factory run was in the thousands --  the number I recall was 30,000 for the wartime gondolas in 16 roadnames.  Anything less than that and the unit price shoots up.  It took a long time for the gondolas to be sold. 

If others could report their statistics (number of cars and number with warped floors) for just the first run of the troop sleepers cars, we could get a better feel for the extent of damage.  There are enough troop sleepers to give an accurate result.

If you can supply car numbers for other first run models, I think other readers would appreciate this.

That's my 2¢.

Jan

PS.  I reread all the posts looking for detailed instructions on how to disassemble the cars after one removes the 6 screws.  Could someone post this info?  Also, from the reports that I read, it appears that between 30 to 40 percent of the frames are defective.

I have two - both MOW (WM and N&W) project-fodder. 

I do not know the production run of either.

Neither has warped.

I do not think that I have any more of these. 

======

Extensive underbody detail is useless; a stable, stamped-steel floor with basic representation of trackside VISIBLE detailing would be much, much smarter.

Beautiful cars. So far.

Here is a list of car body numbers that I have with warped frames.

8896 Canadian National express car

2007 Pennsylvania Express car

8156 Pullman troop sleeper - Note this is the damaged car I purchased of EBAY in order to salvage the trucks.

Thanks,

Richard 

These cars are so nice, it is really a shame this warping is taking place.

Any update from Weaver yet?

  I have a Western Maryland troop sleeper and a troop kitchen. Both are 3-rail. Checked them the other night.  No issues.

Here are some pictures of the first frame repair a friend did for me.

I had earlier mentioned that we were planning to use brass or metal to make the new frame. However due to the warping of the car body and center sill we decided that a plastic blank 0.80 (We used Evergreen plastic) thick would work for a new frame base. The alignment of the body mounting holes and center silll mounting hole would be a little different for each car. This made the  mass production  of a brass or metal frame difficult because the necessary holes for mounting the body and center sill would be a little different for each car.

Here is a picture of the first car with a new frame. The detail parts for the brake system have not been added yet

A good frame was used for a pattern to cut out the blanks for each frame.

This is a work in progress. I hope to have  the under body detail re installed and the frame painted soon.

Well, is is a start. If I can figure out this amateur fix you would think Weave could come up with a fix that could be easy and inexpensive to produce. 

One of the earlier posts on this thread had mentioned a fix using plastic. Please chime in and let us know the progress of your solution.

Thanks,

Richard

That should be: Center Sill and Brake system.

Did you make a pattern piece for each different floor so that the hole placement could be easily reproduced?

Big Jim,

Corrected as noted.

 The pattern is for an express car. I would think the interior of the sleepers, Kitchen cars and hospital cars can sit on the new frame and holes drilled as necessary. The interior would also need to be mounted with small screws.

Thanks,

RG

I think we are on our own if we want to fix our cars as Weaver claims that they can not get parts.

I sent the following e-mail to Weaver customer service on 12/6/14,

Good afternoon,

I wanted to draw your attention to the following thread on the OGR forum regarding warped frames on Weaver Troop/Kitchen/Express cars:

https://ogrforum.com/t...ver-troop-car?page=3

The current update on the folks replying to the thread:

• 18 folks report damage to one of more of their cars
• 5 folks report no damage

So, in summary, 78% of us report a problem so far.

 

This doesn't mean that 78% of our cars are showing in damage at this point, but, rather, 78% of us have at least one troop/express car with a bad frame.  If it is a metal contamination issue, I think it is a fair assumption to assume that if we purchased sets of cars, that the frame issue is likely to be an issue in the future, even with our "good" cars.

 

When I purchased my 4 cars, they were about $90 each, and worth every penny.  I do enjoy these cars very much and would like to get replacement frames to get them fixed.

 

Sincerely,

and got the following reply,

We have tried to get parts from our builders put with no success. We are sorry about the damage and Joe is also upset because we can’t get the parts. So Joe is giving anyone with a damage floor $49.95 credit per car that is returned to us toward any item placed directly through Weaver Models.

I'm thinking about using LEXAN Clear Polycarbonate Sheet, 0.093 in. thick.  I can find it at a decent price at my local Home Depot and have used it for other projects around the house and on my small sailboat.

I'm thinking that with using the clear plastic, once the rectangle for the floor is cut, it would be easy to mark the mounting holes as I could see exactly where they are.

Jim

I find their offer of $49.95 an insult and disingenuous.

Gary,

Very good point. It sounds like there could be a 100% mark up when these cars are sold to the end user.

Jim, Great idea about using the clear plastic. I think that is the way to go.

Richard

I'm a 2- rail guy, and have at least one of my four troop cars with a warped floor. Fortunately ,I purchased these cars for $25 each when Weaver had a clearance sale a year or two ago..

I can double my money!

Has anyone else repaired their frames yet? Richard, How is your fix working out? Do you have any pictures of the final painted repair? I keep looking at my work table and see 3 nice troops car's just sitting there..

Unfortunately, I haven't tried to repair my cars yet. 

Too many projects - too little time, plus I'm trying to sell my flooring nailer so that I can use the money to buy a sander.

Jim

Hi everyone.

I have four out of six with warped floors.

I am thinking of using 1/8 or 3mm thick brass plate to fix mine.

49 bucks wouldn't even cover the shipping for me as I live in West Australia.

How many other overseas customers have this problem?

I love the cars I reckon Weaver should say keep the car and we will give you the 49 dollars as well.

I have bought numerous cars from Weaver over the years at the full retail price it's a bit of a let down I am not bashing Weaver on this just not happy.

Neville. in West Australia.