Well, Tether Me Down Maties

Three words: WEB BASED INTERFACE

 

If Lionel, MTH or anyone else just made a piece of hardware that connected wi-fi to a set of relays, and a passthru to their existing hardware (TIUs, AIUs, etc.) for train control, life would be a lot simpler. 

 

Their software would consist of a set of commands that would be used to create an HTML set of we pages that any wi-fi device could access (iPad, iPhone, Android, laptop, PC, Mac, etc., etc., etc.)

 

The set of commands, provided to all, would allow lots of developers to come up with web based interfaces.  The basic command set would be included in the purchase price of the WEB BASED INTERFACE and copyrighted by the company.  Costs to develop the command set controlled by HTML would be minimal. Lots of web programmers out there.

 

I continue to hope that someone at Lionel/MTH will see the light!

 

Ed

Pick up the Z4K Remote?  That's not old-fashioned.   Let's get back to basics!

 

By gunRunnerJohn:

"I want cab video from each train on the iPad screen."

 

I'm with you John, but this time RailScope in COLOR (cameras are now small enough) and yes; from the engineer's point of view be it steam or diesel!!!  Then we won't have to take our eyes off of the iPad...

 

Best,

Dave

I have to agree with Elliot to a point. I also think there is a market for a WEB based set of controls. Personally an electronic control panel has merit. It is easy to set up or change and you don't have to remember the switch numbers. That sounds silly to those that run there layouts daily but what about those that don't run all the time or have guests running trains. Sure they can go round and round but a visual panel give them control of the switches without having to learn the numbers. I assume Lionel is stepping around the engine control because the future is Legacy and they haven't figured out a way to do this without giving away the "secret codes" yet. Software is just that and easy to change when needed.

Ron

>>I agree with comments above that jumping into an iPad app is dangerous. <<

 

Not so much dangerous as impractical given the haphazard way trains still operate on most larger layouts today with DCS and Legacy. 

Bottom line, I'm a simple person that runs trains to relax,  not to become more frustrated in complicated situations.

Besides,  I don't see how anyone could run trains juggling a tablet, Legacy controller and a cold one at the same time.  

BTW, I do favor a better way for switches. The current situation is bad with both systems.

Joe 

Sic 'em, RickO.  tar and feather the "developer" and send him around, tied to a rail, to see how owners actually use Legacy, as well as what they WANT.

Once more. You can use the iPad for basic controls. You can change speed and direction. I think blow whistle and perhaps coupler not 100% sure. You are not going to get the Legacy controls that is true. Not sure of what Eliot means by tethered. The iPad remains portable and no function is removed from the CAB2 when using it. It does free you from having to hook the base to your PC to update modules and change light settings (anything you use the LSU software for)

Ron, The commands are protected from use two ways. A patent with a mean Lawyer nearby and Legacy commands sent through the serial connection are ignored/blocked. So even if someone tried to make a 3rd party device to send commands it couldn't get to the base via the serial port

and you wonder why I went to 2 rail, and now only buy conventional 3 rail engines...

How well do those conventional 3-rail engines run on 2-rail? 

I kind of like that idea, imagine an Ipad screen with a cab view display and controls like a real loco might have, plus buttons to allow throwing switches and such......it doesn't mean people will always want to do this, but it could be kind of cool, in a sense a simulation of the real experience.

 

I think the answer to the question is that Lionel doesn't see the Ipad ap as a replacement, and marketing wise, probably deliberately. either they felt that many, as expressed on here, like the tactile buttons and such on a cab2 are the cats meow, or they make too much money from the cab 2.

"Not sure of what Eliot means by tethered."

                      cbojanower

Gee whiz, I thought I could not be more clear.

The way the Lionel Ipad app is currently being designed, you cannot use the Ipad and your Cab2 at the same time unless you have three or four hands. If you are holding and using the Ipad to throw switches you cannot possibly use the Cab2 to operate any loco functions because it is practically physically impossible. The idea is to maintain remote functionality.

One cannot hold both and use both at the same time to do these things.

If you mount your Ipad somewhere, you will have to get to it to throw switches or turn blocks on and off. On a layout my size with power in an aisle, it is a physical impossibility for me to mount an Ipad in an aisle and get to it to throw switches in time or if anyone else is in the aisle.

In other words, Lionel needs you to buy multiple Ipads to mount around the layout or hold the Ipad while someone else runs your loco. You cannot possibly do both at the same time while holding the Ipad.

Ergo, you will really be "tethered" to the same paradigm of standing by the Ipad wherever it is. Just as you would have stood by your control panel.

Soooooooooooooooooo,

If Lionel puts the Cab2 on the Ipad app as an icon with the same functionality it has now, one could simply carry the Ipad around and do whatever you need at the moment. 

It seems to me that Lionel is making an economic decision in favor of selling more Cab2's or Cab2L's and hope that we use the Ipad app. To me, there is little difference between what Lionel is offering to me by way of this app and what thousands of other Ipad apps do for me. That is  .  .  .  . Nothing. Really, it is worse. I would be giving up my remote control in order to use it. I, therefore, proclaim that for remote control users of large, complex layouts, the app as I understand it throws me backwards.

Could always velcro the CAB-2 to the back of the pad.  Flip the Ipad over when needed.

 

I suspect if this concept survives it will migrate to what Eliot is asking for(CAB-2 type interface on the Ipad), but I'm also thinking we may be asking Lionel for too much in the first step.

 

I'm probably alone in my thinking, but I believe we are thinking too much of Lionel as a major software house or at least a company whose products would have a much larger customer base to support grand plans from the start.

 

-Dave

 

The responders at Lionel may be busy..

 

ipad shmi pad! I want one of these in my train room to run trains, what fun is a lousy touch screen? Might as well go back to raising the transformer lever and sit back and watch things go in circles. No offense to those conventional operators, of course, they're the last ones that would be interested in this thread

 

Bingo. Bingo. Bingo. Bingo.

Elliot

 

As I said at the meeting, apps are upgradable. I predict you will get want you want in due time. 

Marty,

lI know you are correct.

The reason is because it makes sense.

It's current iteration does not.

A company innovates when it competes against itself.

 

Eliot

Dewey,

Actually, it feels just the opposite. I like holding the Cab2 and I would not like holding an IPad which is too awkward. My real concern here is that the innovations in train technology will now take a backseat to IPadites.

 

This iPad idea is great!  Imagine the possibilities ... If I know the IP address associated with Eliot’s Internet router and he enables port forwarding to his iPad I can run Eliot’s trains from my house using my iPad!  WOW!  Then I won't need my layout.

 

 

That's a great idea Greg. And seeing I'm in Australia, I'll be able to run Eliot's trains while he's in bed!

>>This iPad idea is great!  Imagine the possibilities ... If I know the IP address associated with Eliot’s Internet router and he enables port forwarding to his iPad I can run Eliot’s trains from my house using my iPad!  WOW!  Then I won't need my layout.<<<

 

 

LOL, exactly... 

Copy & paste a layout to yer Ipad and avoid the headaches.

Joe 

You guys know what the Godfather said, right.

if you get whacked, it ain't personal.

 

it'sa da business.

 

Scraparello

The only thing I can see for the addition of the Ipad interface is a small room for a dispatcher in an operating room.

 

 

 

Otherwise dont take away my remote!

You can run your TMCC and Legacy locs with the equivalent of a CAB-1--on your Android phone--right NOW.  That is, today.

 

See this discussion:  https://ogrforum.com/d...nt/16212591184094970

I think Eliot's main point is that he preferrs full Legacy capabilities to be available for the app that's the focus of this topic, not just limited Cab1 and ACC/SW features.

Guys this ipad thing is endless. Just think in a club environment it can be a dispatchers control panel. In a museum environment it can be used to automate the trains and the layout. At home it can be your LSU and layout control panel all in one. If you are running trains alone you can program if you wish events to happen, like the record button on the cab2. now only better. Lets say you program a fast passenger train to travel on the layout while you avoid it with your slow freight train. Having the ipad and remote work together at the same time is going to be fun. just think of the endless possibilities this new technology can bring to the table. As for controlling some ones layout. Mike wolf stated the there DCS software by dave hikel Could do just that. I believe one thing. I feel jon z and his team know how to take the complex and make it so simple to use. The new cab2 is a great example of that IMHO. The icons are much easer to identify than the old number pad. Just to name one area. From the demo I watched on youtube about the app it looked easy to use. At least this prototype version they have now.

John, You're absolutely right. I am frustrated that Lionel is focusing on IPad mania and not on its target power user. Conventional operators want ZW handles. Remote operators want remote controls and the ability to walk with their trains. Lionel's approach is the tail wagging the dog. My primary concern is the resource dollar being poured into a misguided paradigm. I do not believe it is Lionel's intention to cannibalize sales of Cab2's by putting that icon on the IPad. I'm merely voicing the opinion of the gadfly. If Lionel wanted a Cab2 on the IPad screen they would do that. I fully realize Lionel may add that feature and now it will be for two reasons. 1) Power users are highlighting this ineffective approach 2) MTH's approach with Dave Hikel seems to be the obvious way to go. In 12 months Lionel will make a major announcement. The Cab2 is now on your IPad.

Legacy is the future. Tmcc is old hat! I want to be able to control all the bells and whistles. Not just half!

Sigh . . . I am not in a club. Clubs will NOT use multiple IPads in a large environment. Much too expensive. I'm not communicating with a dispatcher. I'm a sole operator. For the fifth time, it is physically impossible to operate a Cab2 and an IPad at the same time. Duh

If I heard it correctly, at the DCS users meeting Wednesday, Dave or Andy said that the remote was the limiting factor in much of the performance of the loomotives. One example they gave was that the engine had the capability of taking a 5 digit ID.  Sounded like the apps could open up a lot of new performance from the existing system and eliminate the remotes.

 

I don't know how to use a smart phone at all yet.

 

Personally, I still haven't 'mastered' the DCS or the Legacy remotes yet!

I really like my remote... why aren't they just looking at a new remote with added features instead of changing everything to !pad control?

 

 

That is wrong because you will need a password to enter the individuals program.

Sigh. .  .  .