What Actually Constitutes an "Iconic" Steam Locomotive?

Interesting topic that has been chewed on before - but it won't hurt to do it again and no doubt this will not settle anything either.

 

I personally have never considered the N&W J or Dixie class to be iconic or even close to it.  They were good, famous locomotives, but before writing this I looked up the actual meaning of iconic which is "a person or thing regarded as a representative symbol of something" - in this case the RR industry?  A loco so famous it transcends the industry so that it means, or represents, the industry in the eyes/minds of many.   With that, I'd say the only ones I can think of are the NYC Hudson, yes, and the ATSF Warbonnett F-3s (I know you said steam but I'm getting a very limited list using this definition), and maybe the Dreyfus Hudson, mostly due to all the memorable posters and such it was on - although maybe its iconic more for its art deco than RR nature.   I'm not sure even the UP Big Boy qualifies as iconic given this definition. 

Though it did not have an illustrious track record in regular service, this engine modeled in O-Gauge is truly outstanding in looks and performance. For me, it is the best that has so far come out of Lionel.

 

 

 

Lee,

 

Your definition is spot on here are the top 10 as viewed by the trade magazine Trains.  They view these as the ones that most changed railroading in America.  So perhaps then these are  'iconic'.  You'll note #10 it's the only one to be included on that list after 1972.


#1 The American 4-4-0

#2 The Baldwin 4-6-2 Pacific

#3 The Lima Berkshire 2-8-4
#4 The Alco 4-6-6-4 Challenger
#5 The EMD FT
#6 The Alco RS1
#7 The EMD GP-7
#8 The GE U25B
#9 The EMD SD40-2
#10 The GE ES44

Question - What actuallyconstitutes an "iconic" steam locomotive? 

 

Simple, someone saying so!  Yes, we cansplit hairs about definition and various sources that state locomotive XYZ as being the most iconic locomotives ever, but when you come right down to it, it is purely subjective depending on who you talk to and what locomotives that they are truly interested in.  For every locomotive built, there is someone who will think that locomotive is/was the best road engine, switcher, passenger locomotive because it was the fastest, most stylish, most innovative and so on.  I do agree that most of the loco's listed so far are fantastic.  I would be more interested in knowing why a person thinks a specific locomotive is iconic.

Trying to view this from a non-train enthusiast, whose youth started in the 1950's, I'd have to pick the American 4-4-0 as The Iconic steam locomotive.

 

I don't believe those born in the 1990's and later have an iconic steam locomotive.

 

My two boys, who were raised around trains, would clearly pick the UP 4-8-8-4 Big Boy: The BIGGER the better.

Even though I'm not a Santa Fe fan. This is the most ICONIC locomotive... 

I suppose if a locomotive is just so beautiful that it inspires custom fantasy paint jobs of a $1K+ model so it fits in with the rest of the roster. Or if it were the most powerful and technically advanced example of it's kind. Or if it survived 44 years after retirement and inspired fans to donate hundreds of dollars apiece for the "chance" for it to be rebuilt. Or the thought of seeing it run again would bring tears to an old man's eyes...

 

Guess you could call that iconic....just saying.

 

While I was never moved to slap a black paint job with a gold/Tuscan red stripe on a UP Big Boy, I'd say that it deserves to be added to the list. And FWIW, yes I'm headed west to see it and ride behind that beast when it's restored and back under power.

 

Gilly

What a surprise!  I didn't realize that an EMD F7 was a steam locomotive...

 

Actually, I would nominate the humble 2-8-0.  Around 23,000 of them were built for U.S. railroads, more than any other type of wheel arrangement.

 

Rusty

I concur. The Consolidation was the #1 locomotive with the N&W prior to the arrival of the Class M 4-8-0. The N&W Class M was a continuation of it's 2-8-0 brother. From what I understand parts were interchangeable on these two classes.

 

Gilly

I would suggest the iconic locomotive is the first one that comes to your mind when someone says "steam locomotive".

I have often wondered if the J1 Hudson would be considered an icon if Lionel had made a PRR K4 or SF Northern instead of the Hudson in 1937.

 

Pete

I will agree that the words "iconic" and "classic" are often used in subjective evaluations beyond their dictionary meanings.

 

As there are unlimited ways to enjoy this hobby, so there are NO wrong choices!

 

THANKS for sharing YOUR favorites with us! 

From wikipedia:

 

Media overuse[edit]

Some writers say that the terms "icon" and "iconic" have been overused. A writer in Liverpool Daily Post calls "iconic" "a word that makes my flesh creep," a word "pressed into service to describe almost anything."^[21] The Christian Examiner nominates "iconic" in its list of overused words, finding over 18,000 "iconic" references in news stories alone, with another 30,000 for "icon", including its use for SpongeBob SquarePants.^[22]

One reason I used "iconic" in the title of this thread instead of just iconic! 

For younger kids, I could argue that the engine portrayed in "The Polar Express" or the one in Harry Potter is iconic, given that is probably the only steam engine they probably have any kind of vision of. 

 

Personally I think the Hudson represents what I would call the iconic image of what a steam locomotive is, but that is me (doesn't hurt I finally have one, after wanting one since I was a kid and read about the 700E, just picked up a Williams J3a royal crown brass hudson, it is on my mantle. I could argue that the general style of 4-4-0 is iconic, since it is the kind of locomotive at the famous image of the transcontinental railroad, and has been used in so many movies and such that many people have seen it. I don't think something like the big boy is iconic, only that in general it is probably only known by railfans, you don't see a lot of them in movies and such.

As icons, I would pick the American 4-4-0, the Consolidation 2-8-0, and, although

I cringe when I type it, as I think too many models of it have been made at the expense of variety (not unique to this loco), the Pennsylvania K series Pacifics.

To be honest, without staring at my belly button and contemplating the meaning of the word "iconic," the ONLY steam locomotive that comes to mind is the Dreyfuss Hudson.

I think that on this Forum the word Iconic is probably regional or the railroads that you model.

B&O C-16 0-4-0t
NYC J1 4-6-4
Usra 0-8-0
Southern PS4 4-6-2
N&W J 4-8-4
Porter Catalog dinky 0-4-0t
Stevenson's Rocket 0-4-0
Baldwin 1870's catalog 4-4-0
John Bull 2-4-0
Pennsy E6 4-4-2
SP C P Huntington 2-2-2
Up Big Boy
Lima van s Berk
I think these can stand for all others.

When I think about iconic steam engines, two have earned that distinction. To me, they are beauty and the beast:

> The Dreyfus Hudson;

> The N&W Y6b.

The American 4-4-0 would lead my list of icons followed by the workhorse 2-8-0s and Ten Wheeler 4-6-0s. Served the building of Industrial America post Civil War.

 

When I think iconic, I think PRR K4.  Decades in service and large number of locomotives in that class.

 

Fred

If someone asked me "Show me what you'd like all steam engines to look like" I would have to say the N&W J.

 

If someone asked me "Show me what you think which steam engine best represents the purpose of the steam era" I would say the 2-8-0.

 

They'll both get you to where you want to go, but one gets you there in style.

And I agree.  People will pick their personal favorites, based on a number of factors, beliefs, and convictions. 

 

My own guess--and it's just a guess--would be the 4-4-0 American since it likely comes closest to being universally recognized and accepted as an icon of U.S. railroading.

 

My vote in terms of passenger power is for the PRR T1 in terms of power at speed, uniqueness of the duplex power train and the ship prow like styling. For freight, it would have to be the hulking and brute appearance of the N&W A Class. For dual service, the NKP Berkshires.  

It is indeed  subjective.  While others may regard select steam engines the NYC or PRR had as such, none from those roads (or any other eastern road for that matter) makes the "iconic" list for me.

Then what does?

"What actually constitutes an "iconic" steam locomotive?"

 

Personal opinion.

 

Pete

I'd say that an "iconic" steam locomotive is one that a lot of people recognize. Advertising during the steam era played a major role. A NYC Dreyfuss Hudson fits that criteria.

 

After the steam era, an "iconic" locomotive could be a crowd-pleaser like UP 844 (or 8444) or NKP 765. It could also be a local favorite. My choice is Reading T-1 2124 and sisters 2100 and 2100. They headed Iron Horse Rambles while I was growing up by the Reading main.

 

An interesting variation is Pere Marquette 1225. She headed excursions but found worldwide fame after she played a starring role in the movie The Polar Express. Publicity, train sets, and local Polar Expresses are all based on the 1225. They make 1225 an "iconic" locomotive, in my opinion.

 

Just my two cents. I am enjoying this thread.

 

 

 

 

The 'Mallard', an internationally recognised steam icon

Ask non-train nut people this question to really find the iconic steam locomotive.

 

For a lot of people, Thomas the Tank Engine is THEE iconic steam locomotive!

 

Also, I think the 4-6-0 as used in all the old western movies and TV shows would do pretty well as iconic to a lot of folks.

 

When non-train nut people think of steam engines, they usually think of some quaint old teakettle like Thomas or the Hooterville Canonball.

The 4-4-0 Americans were the Locomotives that connected the country on the Intercontinental Railroad. Iconic I reckon.

Any Central Pacific or Union Pacific 4-4-0 due to their association with the completion of the Transcontinental Railroad.

 

For more contemporary steam, I vote for the GS- class streamlined Daylight.

 

But that's because I'm a born and bred west coast train nut, so anything NYC or Pennsy is ho-hum to me, but I know the opposite thinking is true for many east coast train fans.  So again, it just further proves the point that it's all subjective.

My suggestions for a generic generally-accepted and understood representation of a steam locomotive:

a 4-4-0 American or

Any of the late era eight-coupled non-compound locos like the 2-8-4, 4-8-4, 4-8-2

 

Imagine if you wanted a highway-type icon sign that showed a silhouette of a locomotive, that would be generally understood by the public, what would you use?  My suggestions above I think would be immediately recognized.

My two-cents just for fun. 

Well, they were second to the 4-4-0 (~25,000). But consols are still iconic.

 

It's part of a herd mentality. "Iconic", "That said", "Moving forward", Gamechanger", … are all parroted words and phrases used over and over to fit in with the crowd. 

 

As for trains, I'll take a Berk or Hudson any day.

If you have to ask if something is iconic, it probably isn't.

 

 

 

 

If you are talking about an iconic Lionel steam loco it would have to be the hudson.  But if you're talking about a real locomotive I would have agree with a generic 4-4-0, many were  saved, thousands were built, and just about every railroad owned them.  Many of the prototype locomotives mentioned are fantastic, but most non railroad fans wouldn't have a clue what they looked like.  Hands down the 4-4-0 is surely the most iconic steam locomotive type. 

 

Its not "a particular steam locomotive" but rather THE steam locomotive in general that is an icon, from kids calling trains "choo choos" to an image on a street sign or at a train station......

 

to GE giving their modern diesel locomotive a steam whistle in a commercial.