With the Cab1L Base unit being discontinued, along with the 990 Controller, what are a person's options for running a Legacy Engine?
I do have the TMCC setup and MTH DCS. However, I am wondering what is required to run in Blue Tooth or Conventional mode. Will a CW80 work, or is something else required. I have heard from people that the power cannot exceed 18 volts or there can be damage to Legacy Boards. With that said, I am not sure I would want to invest in the Base3?
Joe Gozzo
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Cab-1L remote will still be made. You can use a Cab-2 remote also. They're scarce now but they'll turn up.
@MikeH posted:Cab-1L remote will still be made. You can use a Cab-2 remote also. They're scarce now but they'll turn up.
What base unit with either of these?
Oh right. Well, the Base3, if you get one. But it's all vapor ware right now. It will be a year before the Base3 is released (they hope!). You can use your current TMCC/DCS set-up to control any Legacy engine in the meantime.
There isn't anything required to run Bluetooth except a phone/tablet with Bluetooth capability (and the Lionel app). There is also the Universal Remote which does not require a base of any kind.
Unfortunately I believe the Cab1L won’t communicate with your TMCC base. Your Legacy engines will still run with your TMCC setup or with DCS with the cable between the 2 in command mode. Unless your willing to wait it out fore the new base and run with a phone, tablet or purchase a Cab 1L. Your out of luck for a reasonably priced solution.
@Dave_C posted:Unfortunately I believe the Cab1L won’t communicate with your TMCC base. Your Legacy engines will still run with your TMCC setup or with DCS with the cable between the 2 in command mode. Unless your willing to wait it out fore the new base and run with a phone, tablet or purchase a Cab 1L. Your out of luck for a reasonably priced solution.
So. I I ran blue tooth it would still have to be tmcc thru TIU?🤔
No. In order to use Bluetooth, you need two things: First you need a Lionel engine that is equipped with Bluetooth. Second, you need a Bluetooth equipped phone or tablet that has the Lionel app installed. With that phone/tablet, you can control only Lionel engines equipped with Bluetooth. No base required.
I am replying from the standpoint of someone getting into the hobby from the passing of my father. He gave my sons many of his MTH Premier engines but recently we have purchased multiple Lionel Legacy with Bluetooth and used the orange Universal Remote and it works great. But in order to 'lash-up" or DPU we either have to preorder/buy +wait on the Base 3 and use the new app (once released) , buy an overpriced #990 system that is outdated if you have Bluetooth, or buy an overpriced #993 expansion which is basically the remote and charger (still requiring the Base 3) and wait on the preorder and then hope it all works great. According to one post I read where local forum heroes argued you can buy a Cab 1 remote too but honestly may as well use tablet/phone or buy the actual remote that is old but awesome and use it with the Base 3. Then after that large hit Lionel will release a remote for 1/3rd.....but one wants what one wants (referring to me).
So, in short...after struggling with this annoying part I decided to pay in full for a preorder Base 3 and I overpaid for a #993 expansion remote. At least I will have Bluetooth and all the functions along with option to use a tablet/phone.
I am NO expert...I just wondered the same thing and that is the conclusion I reached in order to use or access "all" the features, specifically the lash-up functions.
Hope this helps.
That sounds reasonable. I have the the Legacy system (#990) and the extra remote (#993). Hopefully, everything holds up for the next couple years. Once everything is ironed out with the Base3, I'll pick one up too. That Base3 can't get here fast enough for guys in your shoes. Yes, the Universal remote works great. If they upgraded the Universal remote to included smoke on/off, I might use it more than anything.
I was happy buying dummy/non-powered units and just running one engine at a time. Until 4pm CST I thought the Lion Chief app was the only one. From what I understand the Cab 3 app isn't released yet. I am assuming there will be training for those like me that are new to this. My sons prefer the tablet...I am older and like remotes I guess. I could have bought a new engine and left the remote. I am trusting in Lionel to have Cab 3 with lash-up. There may already be documentation...again I am barely a zero at knowledge but once I realized there is a new app and they are supporting remotes decided to pay and trust knowing the Base 3 is probably a paper weight. But thats hobbies and we have a lot of incredible engines in memory of my dad so calling it even for the "cost" to have the time to spend with them now....I can grumble later.
I don't currently have any Legacy engines but do plan on acquiring some. My plan is to use the Bluetooth app for now on both Legacy and LionChief. Once the Cab3 Base is out and in use for a while I will probably buy it but I don't like to be the first owner of any new products.
So it's not like all of the sudden all the Cab1L / Base1Ls and Cab2/Base2s all go poof. They will be out there and yes probably at a premium for now but eventually I suspect the prices will come down once folks that bought 5 or 6 start realizing they don't need them.
The list below with the exception of Cab1 does not cover the conventional options.
A Cab1 only communicates with a Base1 or original TMCC Powermaster.
A Cab1L (which is still cataloged) will communicate with a Base1L or Legacy base and currently and the Base 3 when released.
A Cab2 will communicate with a Base2 currently and a Base3 when released.
The current iPad LCS and iCab will communicate with a Base 1L and Base2 provided you have the LCS WiFi adapter. It is my understanding once Base3 is released they will also work with it.
My understanding also is that the Cab3 App will communicate with the Base1L and Base2 provided you have the LCS WiFi module. It will also work with a Base3 obviously.
The DCS App with a Base2 and LCS SER2 and TIU with cable will also run Legacy engines with almost all the full functionality of the Cab2. The DCS HH will run Legacy engines in TMCC mode regardless if you have a direct connection to the Legacy base or a SER2 / APP connection. When the base3 is released a SER2 will be required regardless of how you connect the DCS system. MTH R&D promises enhancements.
The 3rd party apps like High Rail and eTrain also can operate Legacy engines using the Base2 and LCS WiFi hardware. The High Rail app has almost all the functionality of the Cab2 with the added bonus of being able to program sensor tracks without physically touching them. A recent update provides tactile feedback for the throttle control. It's to be determined if they'll work with Base3 but I can't imagine why not.
If you already have a Cab2 then as far as a remote is concerned you are ready for Lionel's next leap in command control. I've had my remote since Legacy was first introduced and other than the first upgrade, never has been back to Lionel. With some exceptions they seem robust if taken care of. While I am not and App guy I can't wait to see what Cab3 looks like and functions. I know I'll have to migrate eventually so I want to be in early.
@Dave Olson please correct me if I have misspoken. All this information I derived from the various video appearances that Dave has made recently and some common sense logic.
Marty, thx for your succinct explanation of the O gauge control options.
@TedW posted:Marty, thx for your succinct explanation of the O gauge control options.
I'm sure I missed something and someone will correct it but hopefully this covers 95% or so of the options available.
I'm not sure why voltage is an issue with deciding whether or not to buy a base3. What transformer are you using and what voltage is it putting out? I use Lionel PH 180's, they put 18.7 vac on the rails with no engines. Once you start an engine the voltage will drop as it starts to draw power.
Another option to consider with your setup is that the new DCS app will have Legacy commands for the Base3. I had planned to add TMCC/Legacy this year but since I'm late to the game I would rather adapt the newer base. I've ordered a base3, a cab1L, and plan to use one or both apps to fill in any command gaps. Bluetooth control doesn't interest me in the least, just my opinion.
@MartyE posted:I'm sure I missed something and someone will correct it but hopefully this covers 95% or so of the options available.
Marty,
According to the page 7 of Lionel WiFi Owner's Manual, any LCS module be used with the Base-1L through the use of the LCS DB-9 Power Cable. Do you know if that combo would allow control of Legacy features via the current iCab App? If so, I'm wondering if it would also eventually support the Cab3. Assuming it does, it seems that an MTH DCS TIU could be connected to a SER2 and then provide Legacy control via the DCS app.
@rplst8 posted:Marty,
According to the page 7 of Lionel WiFi Owner's Manual, any LCS module be used with the Base-1L through the use of the LCS DB-9 Power Cable. Do you know if that combo would allow control of Legacy features via the current iCab App? If so, I'm wondering if it would also eventually support the Cab3. Assuming it does, it seems that an MTH DCS TIU could be connected to a SER2 and then provide Legacy control via the DCS app.
I would think as long as the MTH App is issuing "Legacy" commands via the SER2 the it's probable that it will do the same as it does for the Base2. I can't confirm this but it seems plausible. That would be a good question for @Dave Olson . Not sure where the Legacy limitations of the CAB1L/Base1L lay, in the HH or the base or both. Obviously the HH due to the hardware does have limitations but I suspect if the iCab can access most or all the Legacy functionality via a Base1L then the MTH app should be able to too.
If you only have recent Legacy or LionChief +2.0 locos that come in boxes with Bluetooth listed, the cheapest command solution, as mentioned above, at present is the Universal Remote. Also works for LionChief locos by the way. The cost is minimal (about $50).
The limitations are access to some more advanced Legacy functions (e.g., train brake and quilling whistle) and you can only have 3 locos in each Universal Remote at one time. But all important functions are supported such as speed, direction, bell, horn, whistle, crew talk, electrocouplers.
Just something to keep in mind if you are not concerned with controlling older TMCC and Legacy locos. Then again, if you've been buying TMCC and Legacy locos, you possibly already have a cab-1 and command base (TMCC) or Legacy (cab-2/Legacy base or cab-1L/command base). If you have TMCC or Legacy, and you have a Universal Remote, there are no Lionel locos from the last 25 years or so that you cannot control in command mode, other than those that are not command equipped 
.
Perhaps not ideal, but allows one to wait and patiently see what is coming (Base 3 + whatever Lionel dreams up or is cajoled into making) and still operate everything in command mode.
The Lionel Universal Remote will also control Legacy locomotives. Of course, the available functions will be basic: Direction, Horn/Whistle, Bell, limited crew talk. But its not a bad option for $45 and no wires to hook up!
" If either these components fail what are the simplest and least expensive options for their replacement?"
Probably secondary market replacement of the cab-1/command base. There are no less expensive nor simpler devices available for your TMCC equipped locos. There are add-on devices that these can control to throw switches. Not sure these last will not also need to be obtained on the second hand market.
When I first read the title of this thread I thought it was referring to places we should consider in our will or estate plan to charitably contribute our train collections.
@Bruce Brown posted:When I first read the title of this thread I thought it was referring to places we should consider in our will or estate plan to charitably contribute our train collections.
I'm your man for that Bruce. 
I run the JWA Charitable Train Foundation.
@modeltrainsparts posted:All my engines are either KLine, Williams, Weaver, or MTH, and all have been converted to ERR Cruise or Cruise Lite. I use the original TMCC Base and CAB1 to run them. If either these components fail what are the simplest and least expensive options for their replacement? I will not be adding any engines nor do I want any additional features except possibly throwing switch machines (a mix of twin coil and DZ1000) from the handheld.
If either of them fail, I don't think there is a direct replacement for either of them individually. You will have to upgrade your system to one of:
Cab-1L and Base-1L (if you can find a Base-1L)
Legacy #990 set (if you can find one at all)
Cab3 app and Base3 (when they come out some time in the future) (optionally you could add a Cab-1L if you don't like phones/apps)
There was someone selling a Cab-1L and Base-1L set in the For Sale forum a few days back. It also included a Legacy PowerMaster which you don't need, but will probably bump the price a little.
Please keep your answers simple and confined to my questions. Thank you.
Since the topic wasn't started by you, and you've asked a slightly different question, you may get replies to the other questions raised. You might want to start your own topic.
@Madockawando posted:The Lionel Universal Remote will also control Legacy locomotives. Of course, the available functions will be basic: Direction, Horn/Whistle, Bell, limited crew talk. But its not a bad option for $45 and no wires to hook up!
The Lionel Universal LC/LC + Remote Controller will only control Legacy Locomotives that are Bluetooth equipped.
@rplst8 posted:The Lionel Universal LC/LC + Remote Controller will only control Legacy Locomotives that are Bluetooth equipped.
Yes that is true, and I think that most Legacy locomotives are Bluetooth equipped except for perhaps some very early models. When in doubt, check the box! Thank you for the helpful clarification!
@Madockawando posted:Yes that is true, and I think that most Legacy locomotives are Bluetooth equipped except for perhaps some very early models. When in doubt, check the box! Thank you for the helpful clarification!
I think Bluetooth in Legacy started in 2018ish.
@Madockawando posted:Yes that is true, and I think that most Legacy locomotives are Bluetooth equipped except for perhaps some very early models. When in doubt, check the box! Thank you for the helpful clarification!
Actually, you'd be quite wrong. Only the last three or four years has Bluetooth come to Legacy locomotives. Since they've been in production since 2007, a vast majority of Legacy locomotives do NOT have Bluetooth. I have around 25 Legacy locomotives, only four of them have Bluetooth.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Actually, you'd be quite wrong. Only the last three or four years has Bluetooth come to Legacy locomotives. Since they've been in production since 2007, a vast majority of Legacy locomotives do NOT have Bluetooth. I have around 25 Legacy locomotives, only four of them have Bluetooth.
That’s interesting. I’m going to research that. Bluetooth has only been included in Legacy since 2017?
@MartyE posted:I think Bluetooth in Legacy started in 2018ish.
Well I have ten Legacy but I think the oldest one I have is the Providence and Worcester SD70ace so as a group they are fairly new. Well that’s good to know. I stand corrected.
Looks like the first Legacy locomotives that had Bluetooth were the Berkshires in the 2017 Volume 2 catalog. Probably to coincide with the scale Polar Express sets that Christmas. Would make sense it might have been a lot of people’s first foray into Legacy.
I’m not sure when those were made but that might have been a 2018 delivery.
@Madockawando posted:That’s interesting. I’m going to research that. Bluetooth has only been included in Legacy since 2017?
Not hard to research, Bluetooth debuted for Legacy in the Volume 2 Signature Catalog for 2017, so the first models probably hit the streets sometime in 2018.
So, I looked at the online Lionel catalogs going back to 2017. You are both right! Bluetooth is not included in Legacy locomotives from 2017 or earlier.
I don’t have any Legacy Locomotives from 2017 or earlier because not very many come up for sale and I am looking for New England and Canadian road names.
The good news is there plenty of Legacy locomotives from 2018 on that do have Bluetooth to choose from.
The good news is, I don't care if they have BT or not, I run any Legacy locomotives with Legacy. 
@gunrunnerjohn posted:The good news is, I don't care if they have BT or not, I run any Legacy locomotives with Legacy.
And I will too! As soon as the CAB-1L and Base-3 that I preordered come in. My own journey to Legacy began when I purchased the Legacy TM-4 demonstrator. I first ran it with the Universal Remote. I loved it and went on a Legacy buying spree and now I have ten with several more on order. I broke out my 25 year old TMCC CAB-1 to run them. Last year I ordered the CAB-1L remote and command set… and waited… and waited… well we know that story! However, I’m fine waiting for the Base-3 and CAB-1L so it will be all good!
My simple advice, get a 990 set, fast as possible, (do not overpay) and get a cab 1L remote and then early order a Cab 3 system. Plan on doing a lot of reading, it’s all going to be fun. The #990 set will tide you over until Cab3 arrives. Also, get the IPhone 13…. Happy Railroading Everyone
@leapinlarry posted:Also, get the IPhone 13….
I think the iPhone is optional. 
@leapinlarry posted:My simple advice, get a 990 set, fast as possible, (do not overpay) and get a cab 1L remote and then early order a Cab 3 system. Plan on doing a lot of reading, it’s all going to be fun. The #990 set will tide you over until Cab3 arrives. Also, get the IPhone 13…. Happy Railroading Everyone
I'd get an iPad mini or another smaller compatible tablet if I were using the app. The phone is, IMO going to be a bit too small. That's my plan eventually anyways.
@MartyE posted:I'd get an iPad mini or another smaller compatible tablet if I were using the app. The phone is, IMO going to be a bit too small. That's my plan eventually anyways.
On thing to note is that the current iCab app looks pretty goofy on an iPad. It's only designed for the iPhone, and while it runs fine on the iPad, you either have to use it in mini mode or zoom in where stuff is sort of blocky and pixelated. I'm hoping they fix that in the Cab3 app, as there are benefits to a different UI layout with the extra screen real estate offered by a tablet.
@Trainlover160 posted:With the Cab1L Base unit being discontinued, along with the 990 Controller, what are a person's options for running a Legacy Engine?
I do have the TMCC setup and MTH DCS. However, I am wondering what is required to run in Blue Tooth or Conventional mode. Will a CW80 work, or is something else required. I have heard from people that the power cannot exceed 18 volts or there can be damage to Legacy Boards. With that said, I am not sure I would want to invest in the Base3?
Joe Gozzo
It is very easy to find a base 1L. They pop up on eBay frequently. However, the price is significantly higher due to the limited amount of them in the secondary market and operators are in a panic. Here’s a Screenshot of an eBay auction that ended recently. 
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