What are the other R/C Systems?

Before DCS MTH made a remote for the z-4000.  A receiver plugged into the Z-4000 and the remote would control track power from both handles, whistle and bell.  One remote could control three transformers.  Works really well.  Not sure if still made by seen used and some LHS still have.

Bill

I have not heard of many others.  Only MTH had a few systems for controlling track voltage with Bell/Whistle direction function.  It was a small IR remote with track plug in, beside the transformer controller above.

Lionel was Power Masters with CAB-1.  Did not require Command base, the CAB-1 talked directly to the Power Master. 

I think MRC might have had a transformer you could connect a phone cord like cable for control of the transformer via a remote.   G

I suppose in the forum name it was intended as a catch all, as some other scales are putting out bluetooth control and the like, and maybe those things will find a way into O-gauge.  I don't mind at all having a place away from the 3-rail forum to chat and muse about other commercial systems or home brewed systems.  

There are several vendors at York every meet with radio controlled systems for O-scale.  Bachmann has suggested their BT system will make it to O-gauge in a year or so, but there's no schedule.

He did specifically ask about RC that regulates track voltage for conventional engines, so that does eliminate some of the other systems that folks might be thinking about.  His desire requires a Power Management module or a transformer that is remotely controlled.  G

The previous post to mine brought up the BT, so I thought I'd mention some other possibilities.

gunrunnerjohn has a point. There are a lot of systems out there that get to the end result through slightly different routes, all with some form of RC.  

I still think LC+ is very well thought out and just about optimal to my needs.  Frankly, I have not tried all the others.   But based on results so far, I will stick with LC+.

Still, it is nice to know about all the other RC systems, however they worked.

I think he wants to run standard conventional engines too.  So that eliminates an LC like system with constant track voltage.  G

It appears I mis read the question, so I do apologize for that.  At this time I'm not aware of any other systems for O-Gauge that would run conventional, though a remote control 2.4 wireless, bluetooth, or wifi controlled track power controller doesn't seem particularly hard to build.  I doubt we'll see a LionChief track controller, but it would be neat.  

I'm appreciate all the responses. My interests are generally for operation of conventional engines. But the title of the thread doesn't really specify conventional and like most forum members my interests drift.  As long as my interests are addressed, maybe to keep the thread relevant to future search expectations all "other r/c systems" should be included.

G, I'm not familar with the MTH system you mention I know about the Remote Commander which is a constant voltage IR device with limited DCS features. But what you mention seems to be a precursor to the DCS system.

I vaguely remember the  Transformer with the telephone jack connection for the remote. I think you could install several extension jacks and walk around the layout connecting the remote at different points.

Is the Power master system with Cab1 that does not require a command base the same one you mentioned in an earlier thread that could operate up to 9 seperate loops?

Train Engineer was another system and was discussed on this forum but don't see it mentioned anymore.

MTH also made COnventtional engine with LocoSound so you needed to vary track voltage.  In RTR sets, they included an adapter to the track with a small IR remote.  Just the basics for raising and lowering track voltage, bell, whistle.  They are around and cheap.

Yes to Lionel.  Before the first command base was released you could get a Cab-1 and the Power Master.  You could use your PW transformer with the fused adapter cord to power it.  Later they released the Power House 135W brick and than 180W (current version) to power it.

Unique in that the CAB-1 talked directly to the PM.  Giving you remote control of All your conventional trains, or conventional operation of your Command trains.

Throttle, direction, bell, whistle, momentum, boost and brake, and the RED Halt button to immediately kill power from the PM,

Using the TR button you can assign 1-9 IDs to the individual PMs.  So Track 1, 2, 3...

10 amps each, remote control, and one of the better if not best circuit breaker if you use the Power House brick.

Later the ZW-C and now Legacy PM and ZW-L also can be talked to, but you must have the command base.  That is why the PM is still a great item.  Think temporary loop around a tree, or as you desire a conventional but large layout with remote control.

Later if you choose, you just add a command base and now you have both.

My layout is set up this way with 5 loops, a ZW-C and some individual PMs and the CAB-1.  I run MTH PS-1 conventional, Lionel/K-Line Conventional (PW and Modern) and TMCC all at the same time.   Controlling both conventional and Command simultaneously.  When I want to sharpen my wits, I merge the conventional on to the same loop as the TMCC and control both via cab-1 focused on not letting a wreck occur.   G

It can be a fun challenge to learn and master all the complexities of running so many control systems, etc., as you have.  You made a very understandable and concise summary of the systems and how they can be made to work together, particularly the conventional on the same loop.

But for others, like me, that potential complexity, and the problems with ground planes, signal loss, etc., programming, that  friends using DCS and/or Legacy "had fun" fixing, are what brought me fairly early on to put Legacy back in the closet and run only conventional. The only common control system that runs everything (well, okay, everything except Darsted and similar three-rail DC locos).  I wanted to run trains, not diagnose and play with electronics and control systems: I do too much of that at work, although I fully understand how and why people who don't can find it exhilarating to work on the "toy technology" as well as the model trains as a hobby.

I am enthusiastic about LC+ because it is completely compatible with conventional operation, hassle free, and bulletproof.  The learning curve, even for a four year old, lasts about three seconds. I have never had a problem with the hardware, the signal propagation,  the "programming," in months of running three or more locos three hours a day, in company with conventional on the same loop, and it gives me the one and only advantage I saw to Legacy and DCS: precise control of speed independent of the adjusted speed of other locos running on the same or different loops.  

It's a great system.  I want all I can get.

Lee,  I just disagree with your thesis of the complexity.  I understand folks liking LC+ for it's simplicity. function versus value.  If you believe TMCC is too complex ok, but.... I don't think it is.

I spent most of my time laying track and managing power drops.  Any layout requires that work.  When it can time to hook up the Command Base, I ran one 4ft wire from the base to the Common terminal of my phased transformers and I was done.

No signal issues, no ground wave issue. How hard is that?

Programming is not writing code.  Move a switch (no different than switching LC+ from conventional to LC), turn on power, press ENG, press and ID number, Press SET.  Put the switch back into run.  Done and running trains.

I just think you are making it sound more complicated than it is.  Ok if it is for you, or you don't want to do anything control wise.  But don't make the system sound so overly complicated if it really isn't.  Others might be scared away unnecessarily.

Legacy,  sure I can understand that, so much capability it can be confusing.  CAB-1L  as simple as any remote and less complicated then your TV remote.  

DCS, sits between the Legacy and Cab-1L in my opinion, but after a few sessions the basics of running a train are just as easy as Cab-1 or 1L. 

But again we digress back to LC+, when the original question was about other RC systems for remote control of conventional trains.  G

If 3rd party folks need to write a book and create video's on how to set up and run a manufacturer's product than it is complex.

I think the point Lee is making is that, maybe it's not so complex that he couldn't work on the details... He just prefers not to as running trains is more satisfying that diagnosing issues to resolve.

Ron

You hit the nail on the head.

For those interested, here are the frequency allocations in the U.S. for some of the wireless apllications mentioned in this thread:

R/C Cars/Planes/Boats

26.995-27.255MHZ (6 channels)

49.830-49.890MHZ (5channels)

72.01-72.99MHZ (50 channels)

2.40-2.485GHZ (spread spectrum)

Garage Door Openers

380-399.9MHZ

Cellphones/Cordless Phones

806-960MHZ

1710-2200MHZ

2500-2690MHZ

Bluetooth

2.40-2.48GHZ

ZigBee

915MHZ (10 channels)

2.4GHZ  (16 channels)

I've built wireless systems for my trains in most of the R/C bands and they all work quite well.

Ron, I got his point and acknowledged it in my post.

BUT, TMCC doesn't have a third party book.  Basic running doesn't require third party book or video for the other systems either.  Think quick start procedure for about any product made.

Want to use all those deep complex subsystems.  Sure the book and video help.  Think home computer.

If folks walk away thinking Command control is nothing but problems and complexity, then Lee and other are leaving folks with the wrong impression.  In my opinion.

That is my only point.  G

G, I think you make a good point.  I can only speak for Lionel, but I have been using TMCC for years.  Attach one wire, put batteries in the remote, assign a number to your engine, push start and away you go...  Last night I installed Legacy and it was exactly the same procedure.  Legacy does have many more options for operation which I might explore. But, despite having a 92 page booklet, I was running trains in 30 minutes.

I can understand the conventional operation, but on an interlocking track layout you better be prepared with an emergency all stop button.

Good suggestion, but I think it is always a good idea no matter what size layout or how you run.  They cost next to nothing and are convenient, too. 

Lee posted: it is always a good idea no matter what size layout

Over a year ago you posted about this device and shared a link on Amazon.  I immediately bought and installed one. It has become my go too device whenever I turn on or off my power. I keep it in my pocket and it has saved my equipment on numerous occasions when the grandkids are competing with each other for the lead in the great train race.

There have been times when I am working on the layout, trying something new, when I literally wear it on a lanyard around my neck, and it has indeed saved my goose several times.  It is also just so convenient.  One button, from anywhere in the trainroom, and it is on or off.

I worried at the time and still worry that other nearby remotes - mine or neighbors - would interfere with it, but so far, never.   

I keep trying to convince myself these are all "Remote Control" systems, but I keep thinking of the difference between "Remote Controlled" airplanes and "Line Controlled" airplanes.

The mere fact of having to connect a power source to the rails (line control) IMO isn't true remote control at all.

I want to see O scale battery operated systems, batteries in the engine as well as the handheld.

I know there's a few who have done it (Ed Reutling comes to mind, RIP Ed) so it is possible.

I think I saw a slogan a while back that read "Free Rails or No Rails", that sums it up for me.

So if anyone has crossed over to 100% battery operation lets see some photos!

So if anyone has crossed over to 100% battery operation lets see some photos!

Joey Ricard did a video on this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...amp;feature=youtu.be

There are also commercially available systems from Crest and Remote Control of New England.  They were developed for G but they will fit in O.

http://www.crest-electronics.net/

http://www.remotecontrolthrottles.com/ 

Ron

If you are interested in battery powered Ogauge operation, I refer you to a series of info articles that appeared in the October 2014 and February 2015 issues of the LCCA club magazine. There was also a demo video of battery powered running on the LCCA website.

DCC is also available for O-gauge. Some people think of DCC as being only for two rail or two wires, if you will.  Even though O-gauge is 3 rail, it still uses just two wires. One of the niceties of 3 rail is the reverse loop electronics issue.  But that has been taken care in two rail and isn't much of an issue any more. And, not intended as an endorsement, but Digitrax makes a decoder for O-Gauge. Basically, its the same electronics as there HO decoder but can handle higher amperage.

Steve

One of the reasons I went back to conventional from Legacy/DCS was that I wanted one control system that could run everything from pre-war Marx onward, at the same time with a common way of running.  (Yes, I have to put rectifiers in my Darsted 3-rail DC, but then even them, too.  Most options like Legacy, DCS, or converted to DCC, ask you to accept some limits, or constraints on how you operate, that I just didn't want.

What I like about LC+ is that it gives me locos with the superior speed control that one gets from Legacy or DCS (or DCC for that matter) while permitting me to still run every conventional loco, too.  And the remotes are handy, although I find I just keep them in their holders near the power supplies anyway.

For a demo of battery powered operation, go to youtube and in the search field type "Bob Walker's Battery-Powered" to get the video that was on the Lionel Collectors Club website. This setup used a nickel metal hydride battery paired with a very efficient PWM motor control circuit and worked great. Can supply circuit details to anyone who wants it.

I would like to see the circuit details.

Steve, I looked but couldn't find anything mentioning O scale on their site, can you point me in the right direction?

I'm looking for a system that is RC, battery powered, with forward, reverse, speed control, lighting, and can accept DCC at a later date.  Is there anything out there like this?  I also want to be able to charge the batteries either by pulling the engine onto a powered "service track" or plugging a charger into a charging jack on the engine without having to take anything apart.

Thanks Steve, here's the link:

http://www.digitrax.com/produc...bile-decoders/dh465/

Bob, Look around at CVP Products.  Wireless RC control, battery capable, DCC based.   G

That HO/O decode can work, but 4Amps is low.  A stall may take it out, especially in a 2 motor O engine.   G

In response to request from lilern for circuit details of my RC system, the diagram was part of a copyrighted magazine article so I can't post it. If you email me at my profile email, I can reply and get you the diagram. 

Per RideTheRails, easy battery charging was also one of my goals. The dummy Alco A unit that contains the RC circuit and the battery also has pickup rollers. It results in a dual power arrangement where I can run via battery or DC on the center rail. When I need to charge the battery, I run the ALCOs over to an isolated block and then turn on DC to the isolated center rail. I found that a 10.5VDC setting was the correct voltage to apply to charge a 9.6V NiMH battery pack in about 6 hours, which gives close to 2 hours running time. I also included an external plug for conventional charging. A charged NiMH battery will hold its charge for a very long time, I've found.

The past few days I've been searching for available RC systems made for O scale trains (not much available that's under what DCS or TMCC cost) and at regular surface RC systems that are used in cars/trucks.

I've found a fairly inexpensive 6-channel Transmitter (Tx) and Receiver (Rx), a Turnigy 6X FHSS 2.4 Ghz for $29.90, extra Rx's run $9.99.

I've also found/determined that it's not the current rating of the Rx that matters but the current rating of the Electronic Speed Controller (ESC).  Many ESCs have a Battery Eliminator Circuit (BEC) built in that reduces voltage down to 5vdc for the Rx while providing main voltage to the motor.

There's ESCs that are rated for 5-10 amps with reverse, for brushed motors.  I'm still looking for a good price on these, I found one rated at 45 amps but it was around $100.

Also need to look at an on/off switch with charging jack for the battery and a battery.

What are the other R/C Systems?

The picture is the first open-source DBTC HO board with one thin-dime and an extra the Bluetooth board. Don’t let the extra wires and connector freak you out they are for a debugging interface and to allow the experimental addition of new and unique capabilities (like precision-scale-distance-control).  There is also a connection for battery power.

The HO-FTA has already been modified to add the tachometer-wheel and mounting for the tachometer-sensor. The HO-FTA also has a read-switch added (hidden) on the bottom that will be used to implement controlled stops at precise locations.

The controller is currently a Bluetooth-laptop, but eventually iThing Apps will be available.

A similar “user” board for O-scale is probably about a year away.