what traditional berkshire is closest to looking like a Norfolk Southern F-1 berkshire

These were among the smallest Berkshires produced. With only 63” drivers, and an a low axle weight. Think more along the lines of a Mikado. If trying to do a traditional sized “model” I’d start with something like a Mikado Jr. Or even a Hudson Jr. and design the build around that. But beings traditional sized 3 rail doesn’t really follow any rules, anything could be fair game. Kline made a traditional sized SP Mikado that could be a good enough stand in beings it’s already got a Vandy type tender.

Pat.

Consider the Williams Berkshires.  726 size, affordable,  good runners. Painted mine TH&B. JohnA

@harmonyards posted:

These were among the smallest Berkshires produced. With only 63” drivers, and an a low axle weight. Think more along the lines of a Mikado. If trying to do a traditional sized “model” I’d start with something like a Mikado Jr. Or even a Hudson Jr. and design the build around that. But beings traditional sized 3 rail doesn’t really follow any rules, anything could be fair game. Kline made a traditional sized SP Mikado that could be a good enough stand in beings it’s already got a Vandy type tender.

Pat.

yeah a mikado looks like a good stand in

is there a small enough 2 axle trailing truck i could swap to make it look more the part?

@paigetrain posted:

yeah a mikado looks like a good stand in

is there a small enough 2 axle trailing truck i could swap to make it look more the part?

The N/S Berkshires are 2-8-4’s, so you’d need a 4 wheel trailing truck if using a 2-8-2 Mikado as a base platform. To be sure there’d be a traditional sized truck that would work. That would depend on the model manufacturer you choose to go with.

Pat

I would love to see one too, the problem is the tender, it is a cast farme water bottom called a Hicken.  Cross between a conventional and a Vanderbilt.

Only tender that I know of that is remotely close is the Lionel Milwaukee Road 4-8-4 tender and it is WAY too big.

If you are not that picky, find something you like and letter it.  There's nothing out there short of scratch building.

Like Pat said, a small mike is a start for the engine.

Former NS Road Foreman of Engines Charlie Jones said they were about the size of Southern 4501 which is a light Mikado.

Hate to be a pessimist, but don't hold your breath.

@NHVRYGray posted:

I would love to see one too, the problem is the tender, it is a cast farme water bottom called a Hicken.  Cross between a conventional and a Vanderbilt.

Only tender that I know of that is remotely close is the Lionel Milwaukee Road 4-8-4 tender and it is WAY too big.

If you are not that picky, find something you like and letter it.  There's nothing out there short of scratch building.

Like Pat said, a small mike is a start for the engine.

Former NS Road Foreman of Engines Charlie Jones said they were about the size of Southern 4501 which is a light Mikado.

Hate to be a pessimist, but don't hold your breath.

i'm considering a relettered 726 as my best bet even easier than modding a mike heck that way i can get 5 726s and model all NS berks 600-604

were the boilers on some engines a greyish color because in some photos of 600 she looks to have a black cab and grey boiler?

also is there a recording out there of an NS berkshire whistle . i've heard they had a very throaty steamboat whistle and i've looked at steamboat whistles but don't know if i'm hearing the right one

can you help point me in the right direction? is Charlie Jones still alive?

Many engines had a "graywash" applied for a builders photograph to make details stand out better.  I doubt in service any NS engines were anything else than black.

Have no idea about whistle sounds.

Considering Charlies Jones was in his early 60's 39 years ago, I doubt it.

@NHVRYGray posted:

Many engines had a "graywash" applied for a builders photograph to make details stand out better.  I doubt in service any NS engines were anything else than black.

Have no idea about whistle sounds.

Considering Charlies Jones was in his early 60's 39 years ago, I doubt it.

i like to think the berkshires had a whistle like the mauretania

https://youtu.be/qwVADeuZZZs

sounds haunting enough

imagine hearing that in the middle of the night along with the chugging and groaning of a steam locomotive

@paigetrain posted:

i like to think the berkshires had a whistle like the mauretania

https://youtu.be/qwVADeuZZZs

sounds haunting enough

imagine hearing that in the middle of the night along with the chugging and groaning of a steam locomotive

Unless you plan on building one from a MTH DCS engine, your whistle options are going to be very limited,……TMCC stuff is like hen’s teeth, and legacy is what it is unless you buy a specific board with the whistle you like……

Pat

Good to see there is someone interested in the original Norfolk Southern Paige.  If you want to do a quick and easy version of the NS's 2-8-4 (I hesitate to call them berkshires) then I agree that a 726 clone is the way to start.  I'd suggest at a minimum moving the bell to in front of the smoke box, removing the poppet valve on top of the boiler and replacing the pilot wheels with spoked wheels.  Then not sure what those two things are on the pilot, but they should be easy enough to fake.  No advice for the tender, but I think there are still Norfolk Southern decals floating around.

The original Norfolk Southern caboose should be an easy conversion to mate up with your loco.

Be sure to share pictures of your progress.  Best of luck.

Found another model of a Hicken tender for visual reference, a MTH Northern Pacific Z6 challenger.  Sadly this tender is WAY too big as well.  Even if you could get the Lionel MILW S3 tender, or the MTH Z6 tender, I'm not sure you could slice and dice enough to make an acceptable end piece and not end up with a pile of cast metal pieces.

There’s a couple local guys that have been after me to build this engine in scale,..those Berkshires rolled right through Elizabeth City NC, ..( next town to me )  ….the tender has always been the big hiccup,…..it’s been putting the project almost out of reach for a budget, …….in the case of Paigetrain’s plight, pretty sure a traditional sized Vanderbilt tender is going to have to be “close enough” to see it come to light…..

Pat

To the 3D print gurus, what would it take to design to do a resin print?  I know dimensions are needed but what else?  Piece print, leave the coal bin empty.  Scale size.

Pat, between you and me we might get six to split the design cost.

Just throwing this out as an idea

@NHVRYGray posted:

To the 3D print gurus, what would it take to design to do a resin print?  I know dimensions are needed but what else?  Piece print, leave the coal bin empty.  Scale size.

Pat, between you and me we might get six to split the design cost.

Just throwing this out as an idea

Can happen,…….there’s a small contingent of the old Norfolk Southern diehards in the Albemarle Railroad club, …..They rattle my cage every now & then about the Berk, …but it’s the man hours on carving up a die cast tender that sends them scurrying for a crying towel and anti-inflammatory drugs….

Pat

I am trying to find drawings, none of the few NS books have any sort of mechanical drawings in them.

Have you checked Richard Prince's book?

They are not there.