What will it take to be called 'King of Scales' Again

I'm not really concerned if 0 scale is popular or not. If it is popular, that is fine, if it isn't, that is fine too. I'm focused on building a layout with what I have. I agree 0 scale has great potential. Many don't realize it and never will.

NW2124:  "Progress - either you are for it, or get out the way!"...

By the way you define progress,  I choose the second option

So nw2124, how about giving us a link to YOUR website?  After the way you carried on (in another thread) about Lou Cross not having one, I know you must have a great one.  I'll bet it's chock full of all sorts of ideas and examples of how to grow the O-scale hobby, photos/trackplan/construction details of your layout, etc., etc.

Let's see it!

Bob Bartizek

And the Cats scratter!

NW2124 "Progress - either you are for it, or get out the way!"... SLR

I really want to thank OGR for permitting such threads / discussions such as these that go on for 2 pages or more.

Reading through the entire thing really breaks up the tedium and monotony usually associated with the mindnumbing task of once again rearranging my sock drawer to get all of the socks aligned magnetically North. 

Please do carry on.

I am not sure that O Scale was ever the king of scales the way HO and to a lesser extent N is today. Scale equipment was bring made and people were modeling in two rail and outside third rail, but the hobby was just bedinning. The vast amount of products being made was O Guage and Standard Guage 3 rail from Lionel, American Flyer, Ives and a few others. There is more stuff now then ever. Enjoy it. If you think you can do it better, start a company and make what you think needs made. HO has size and price advantages that I do not think O will ever be able to touch.

And to think all this wordy debate arises from a simple, catchy, 1950s advertising blurb by All Nation Hobby Shop in Chicago, in putting it on its catalog covers. And now, All Nation is no more.

The slogan arose from ANs efforts to set itself apart in competition with Athearn,

Walthers, Lobaugh, Westbrook and other O scale kit makers at the time, as it absorbed JC Models passenger car kits, Zimmer freight car kits, General Models car and locomotive kits as well as parts of the Scale Craft kit line.  

That's all!

Thank God for O Scale. if it didn't exist, I'd probably be in S Scale, or 1:20.3, or 1:32 or some other minority scale. I've always had the tendency to hit my head against a brick wall, but at least with O Scale, I feel like I've been able to fracture a couple of those bricks. Where does the madness end!?

Originally Posted by nw2124 

February 24, 2012 5:23 PM

 

Originally Posted by nw2124 

February 24, 2012 5:23 PM

 

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The question is why do you hide your identity?

 

This should be obvious by now.... he's a crime-fighting superhero.

spiderman

batman

nw2124

King?  KING?!  Once a king, always a king but once a night...well that's enough...Why would anybody care about which scale is "king"?  Is it for some silly sort of bragging rights?  All the popular scales have their advantages and disadvantages.  My little personal solution is to work in various scales to enjoy the advantages of each. My main interest is 3 rail O scale.  I like the big size and sense of power conveyed by the O scale.  I enjoy the social aspects of belonging to the local HO modular club so I also work in HO scale.  I like the cute and pretty On30 trains with their old style narrow gauge images that go nicely with our Christmas village.  The cute little mousey N gauge trains are fascinating to me to watch scurrying around a little model railroad that can be picked up by one man(me).  They seem to run well and provide a nice break from my O gauge pike.  In short I try to get the best of each of the scales in which I model.  I can deemphasize the parts I don't like.  They are all kings to me.   Odd-d

The Gentleman Lou Cross was at the March Meet.

I made it a point to let him know that many of us online go to bat for him over those who flame his lack of "online" presence.  I told him that his old-fashioned business ethic was worth more than some cheesy advertorial web site.

He warmly appreciated this.

As expected, he had NO shortage of customers or interest in his product.   He has MORE work than he can handle at his stage of the game.

I guess he still uses an outhouse and candles. If that makes him happy than so be it. This is the millennium if you want to catch up with us! I talked to several business people at the show about the lack of a website and his desire not make his business know to new comers. (I did not know that we are to keep O scale a secret! My bad.)  We had such a great laugh at the some of the responses on this forum "WEBSITE".  Websites are information and communication sites.

George/nw2124   "Progress - either you are for it, or get out the way!"

I am curious, what were the responses you got from these other folks regarding his not having a website?  The reason I ask is that you reference his apparent desire to keep himself hidden which to me seems to be an inaccurate statement.  I mean all I had to do was read some threads here on the 2 rail forum and I learned of his presence, and with his products offered by Protocraft he is well known...even to me and I am a new comer and I know other new comers that found him just fine.  While at the show did you stop by and talk with Lou and express your concerns to him directly?   

Thanks for the comments.

Yes I did stop by Lou's table and no the other business people I will not disclose to those here on this forum so that they will not be ragged on! In a modern business world today a website is a "must have". All you can agrue till the cows come home and make all the excuses you want, but it will not change a thing. "Progress - either you are for it, or get out the way!"

 NW2124

I continue to be amazed at your ability to demonstrate insensitivity (“I guess he still uses an outhouse and candles") and hubris (“Catch up with us").  

Your point about web-sites being a best practice to grow a contemporary small business isn't in dispute.

 What is being put down is an attitude that demeans an extremely valued member of our community who at this stage of his life chooses a different business path.  Fortunately for those building O scale railroads, Lou Cross continues to be a major contributor in O scale by providing unmatched products and service. 

 “Get out of the way” - I pray not for a very long time.

Ed Rappe

A suggestion to nw2124, Spend the amount of effort you've made posting disruptive rediculous threads, such as this one has been, on doing some valid modeling work and post the results of your work here so we can see your actually serious about model railroading, and not a joker with a computer just horsing around trying to create arguments. Your words are meaningless without evidence of your credibility. You end each posting with that progress comment your fond of...show photographic proof of the progress you've made for a change!

Bob

NW2124, I am curious, how old are you? Evidently not old/mature enough to understand that Lou is HAPPY with where things are business-wise.

If 292 is right:

As expected, he had NO shortage of customers or interest in his product.   He has MORE work than he can handle at his stage of the game.

Then a website would likely build demand beyond his production capacities. THAT would create a lot of UNHAPPY customers, look at the posts on here when Lionel or MTH have production delays. If Lou is Happy with the sales he is currently having, and his customers are HAPPY with his products, then I would say that a website would be counter-productive, and BAD for Lou's PROGRESS.

Doug

Hmmm.....

I'm not sure that rational thought and reasoning works wiith trolls; it certainly hasn't in my experience,

Hi Folks,  I think the that the largest reason that O scale 2-rail is not as popular as other scales is lack of space.  This is the primary reason that I am a 3-rail modeler.  Nearly every 3-rail model on my hi-rail layout is available in 2-rail.  I just don't have the space for 60 inch and larger radius curves for large steam engines and scale passenger cars.  I can run scale steam engines (Weaver brass NH-I5) and scale Weaver Bradley passenger cars on 36 radius (O-72) however.

I think the bigger question for 2-rail proponents is:  "Why do people who have both the space and money for 2-rail choose 3-rail?"  All you have to do is look at the pages of OGR to see that this happens all the time.  Tony Lash's layout comes immediately to mind but there are many more.  Why is the Misty Mountain 3-rail instead of 2-rail?  Why is the display in the Roanoke Transportation Museum 3-rail instead of 2-rail?

I think that one problem is that 2-rail proponents don't do a good job promoting the 2-rail segment of the hobby.  I attend O Scale West every year and the NMRA National Train Show whenever I can.  The Orange County O-Sale Modular Club displays their fine modular 2-rail layout at O Scale West every year.  I am sure that they display at other venues but O Scale West is 2-railers promoting to 2-railers.  The Nor-Cal TCA Cal-Stewart convention just ended.  There were no 2-rail modular layouts at that show.  3-rail and G gauge were promoted with modular layouts.

The NMRA National Train show is even worse when it comes to promoting 2-rail.  There are almost no O Scale 2-rail vendors and perhaps only one 2-rail layout.  I can't recall a single O scale 2-rail modular layout at last year's NMRA Convention in Sacramento, CA.  (There may have been one there but I don't recall it.)  One 2-rail vendor that I know, calls the NMRA Convention the "HO Show" and does not display there.  The vendor does display at York.

There are very few O scale 2-rail layouts promoted in the general model railroad press.  I am talking about magazines such as Model Railroader and Model Railroad Craftsman which carry articles in all scales.  I subscribe to OGR and love the magazine but again OGR is mostly written for and by people who are already into O gauge.  Even OGR has very few 2-rail layout articles.

Another problem with 2-rail is that there are very few clubs and almost no new 2-rail clubs.  All the 2-rail clubs that I am aware of have been around for a very long time.  The Stamford Model Railroad Club and the East Bay Model Engineers come to mind.  These clubs have been around a long time.  

New 3-rail clubs, however, are forming all the time.  The one exception to 2-rail O scale clubs may be the formation of new On30 modular clubs.  These clubs are helped by the availability of affordable and highly detailed On30 models by Bachmann.  I wonder what would happen if Bachmann started making affordable and highly detailed trains for the 2-rail O scale market.  (This would not be their Williams 3-rail line,)  

I don't have any answers for these questions.  I do think that if 2-rail is going to grow it will need to be promoted to a wider audience than just fellow 2-rail modelers through the model press and train shows.

Joe

CWEX or anyone else: Why are there more 2 railers here than on the OST forum being an all 2 rail mag? Just courious.

George/nw2124   "Progress - either you are for it, or get out the way!"

Personally I am on both.  The OST forum has not been up long, most people have been on other forms and made friends and haven't changed over.  Kind of like going to drink coffee with your buddies in the mornings even if a new coffee shop opens you stay at the old one because that is where you friends are at.  You know they will be there when you drop in at the normal meeting time.

Ken the guy from AR

Thanks Ken for the response. I like your analogy of the coffee shop.

George/nw2124   "Progress - either you are for it, or get out the way!"

I like yourself am on both, but I have not done a head count to see how many more are here as opposed to there but I would agree with Kens' statement.  OST is a much newer forum and it will take time for folks to gravitate between the two if they wish.  Heck there are several forums out there and each has alot of talent and advice and so on packed into them.  I switched from 3 to 2 rail but there are always things to share and to learn and OGR does have some very talented people belonging to it as does OST and the others, for me personally I love the diversity as they all have something to offer.  You wishing to model the N&W can get gobbs of info from OST and see great photos there and here on OGR as with Christopher N&W's amazing layout....point being is that they are both great places to share info and experiences and gain knowledge.  What is the reason IYO?

nw2124 

Are you dense or what? Lou doesn't even own a computer, how do you expect him to have

a web site?  I already posted this information once on this Forum.  Lou's product is top of the Line, the best there is and he doesn't need a web site or computer to produce his track work.  His 89 years of experience is all he needs.  

OST has a forum?  Thats new.  Might be like Google+ trying to compete with Facebook.  

I was looking at the photos from the March Meet and it looked like Lou had a nice full spread of goodies. 

I have been fooled by that nice full spread before.  I says to myself "Ken you can come back and get that little stuff at the end of the show"  and when I went back the next day he was almost out of everything.  Had to order some of the stuff I needed.  Always strike when the iron is hot they say.

Ken

Oh yeah I've been there.....  Timing is everything.

And cash. A war chest. When you see it. Buy it. It will not be there anymore if you take more time to hem and haw about it. I pounced onto a Trolley set some time ago. I'll find a use for it somewhere.

I am in either 2 rail or three scale. I lean more towards the three rail due to the real estate available. The Ross Switches show a great deal of promise for the new yard that is being built.

From what I hear, OGR gets a 2-rail submission now and then.  I know for sure about at least one.  They apparently choose to cater to 3-rail readers, and they have every right to do so.  They choose to state that nobody submits 2-rail articles.

O is still king, always will be. Only problem is that through a series of protracted battles with HO and N and G its Kingdom has shrunk. 

Unless we are employed at the manufacturers and are privy to the returns on current investments as well as the potential ones that would require more funding, it's all a  moot point ..as one fellow said ( was it Rapido? ) in regard to the China soap opera, this is not a cash rich business and that's the way it is. Improvements require money, and if there is not enough growth in the core business, reinventing the wheel is not in the cards..it's daydreaming. As far as The King of scales, define "King" Most popular? Most profitable? Most enjoyable? Most growth factor? Private enterprise and purchasers with their wallets are the best judge of that , and no silver bullet , magic button will replace incremental change and nothing is perfect.

Aside from that, I own no stock in any of them nor presume to control any of their business decisions beyond my wallet and while I enjoy toy trains, they are not the be all and end all of my life where I would resort to hand wringing.