Whistle Keeps Blowing

You are getting a dc offset on the track  Clean the track, and the engine wheels and pickup rollers and see if that clears it up.   If not, I would look at a stray strand of wire from the yellow and white motor leads that is touching the motor can, or a nick in the wire touching chassis frame.  But it sounds like dirty track/engine wheels.  G

I would clean the wheels and rollers as mentioned by GGG.

I had a Williams engine blow the whistle when it wanted to, usually the same area on my track, and I had just a regular transformer being used, no whistle button.

I cleaned; the track, wheels and rollers, the problem went away.

Lee Fritz

GGG and Lee. Thank you for the info. I've cleaned the track but not the wheels and rollers. Will try that later and report back. Unfortunately, the issue is quite unpredictable. I can go days without a whistle blowing non-stop or it can happen every few minutes. My other track with no switches or anything works just fine. Never occurs in the same spot. The set up in question I've had before on previous layouts in a similar fashion without issues. 

Tried cleaning track, wheels, and pick ups. No luck. Also removed all switches and that single accessory hooked up the track and made just a no frills oval broken into two halves via plastic track pins and feeds to both "halves" of the loop - blew the whistle on my PS3 engine and it kept blowing and blowing and .......blowing! No loss of control of the engine otherwise. Did a track signal test and the general area where it occurred was either 9 or 10. Nothing below 9. Rest of the loop was 10. A lighted MTH Caboose put it at all 10s.

Another question - I tried my DCS Remote Commander, such as the one that comes in the beginner kits. That doesn't have any issues. Any reason why the $50 item would work flawlessly and the $300+ system doesn't?  

Place an 18 volt bulb across the TIU channel output that connects to the track.

One other thing is that the problem could be a sticky key on the remote. If you have another remote available, try using it and attempt to replicate the problem.

Barry:

Thanks. I just ran into Radio Shack and didn't get far (no surprise, they usually don't help regardless of the issue/question). Told me there is no such thing as an 18 volt light bulb and no such base for the bulb that has screw +/- connections so I can just connect the wires via the screw terminals. 

Any idea of where I can get an 18 volt light bulb and screw in base with screw connections for +/-? Home Depot? Anyone sell light bulbs pre-wired for DCS installation? My other question - wouldn't the lighted caboose, etc serve the same purpose as a lighted caboose or switch tower, etc hooked to the track?

I'm pretty certain it is not the button on the remote based on the flawless operation of my other loop of track. 

The bulb and base should be available at many electronics supp;ly houses and possibly at Home Depot. Check online.

I'm pretty certain it is not the button on the remote based on the flawless operation of my other loop of track. 

If you use different TIU channels for the two loops, try swapping them to see if the problem moves.

Thanks Barry. Will try and report back later this evening. 

Would this work with an 18 V lightbulb? It is meant for a screw in flashlight bulb.

Yes, it should.

Went to every local Home Depot, Hardware Store, Radio Shack, etc and none had a suitable light bulb. Didn't think it would be so hard to find one! Haven't had a chance to test much but do have the following. Kept track #1 (the good one) on Fixed 1. Moved the bad one from fixed #2 to variable #1 and set it to hold 18 volts such as you do with a fixed channel. No change. I will put the bad track on Fixed 1 and Good on Fixed 2 and report back. Any other ideas to try? I will try to find a small 18V lightbulb online. 

Just tested for about 1/2 hour. I did the following

1) Swapped the bad loop (fixed #2) and the "good" loop (fixed #1) on the TIU. Bad became fixed #1 and good fixed #2

2) Swapped engines. Bad loop had an MTH PS3 steamer, good had an MTH PS3 diesel. 

3) Ran both. Steamer got the stuck whistle on what is/was the good loop on fixed #1. The diesel on what is/was the bad loop ran fine although I didn't test much. 

So, it would appear that the problem is not the TIU, since the "bad" loop moved to the other TIU channel.

The problem would appear to be in the wiring or track work on the "bad" loop.

Barry, 

Thanks for the continued help. I guess I'll try rewiring (again!) and if no luck, stick to either the little DCS Remote Commander set up or conventional mode

No train shops\hobby shops in your area? They have the correct bulb. remember to ask for the "magic bulb"

or get these parts at the shack

You could also put a choke across the power and common feeds of the switches

Barry, out of curiosity would a dim 14v or bright 24 volt bulb work out ok in a pinch? Most Radio Shacks are now limiting their in store bulb selections even further now (my auto-parts place has way more but 12v,14v, or 24v). You can still order many bulbs from R.S. though.

I.V.rr.- most incandescent bulbs don't really have +/- leads, or even care if feed ac or dc.

Most any common bulb will do the trick.  Even better are the Susan Deat's filters, they don't consume any energy and do the job invisibly.  They're very easy to fabricate.

John,

Most any common bulb will do the trick.

Unfortunately, that's incorrect. Most other values do a less than terrific job of cleaning up the DCS signal. Further, anything less than 18 volts is going to burn out sooner rather than later.

Even better are the Susan Deat's filters, they don't consume any energy and do the job invisibly. 

In my experience, the filters do less well or, at best, the same as an 18 volt bulb on non-buss wired layouts. Further, they need to be used in pairs, and also need to be mail ordered from Susan or built from mail order parts.

Well, obviously I was referring to an 18V bulb for 18V track power.  The point of the bulb or filter is to prevent signal reflections from the end of the transmission line (the track).  The parts for the filters are pretty common parts, and two components isn't exactly a challenge as far as assembly.

Thanks for additional suggestions. Tried removing all switches, rearranging and cleaning the track and track pins, rewiring, using new wire/lock-ons which did nothing. Very frustrating and I've been dealing with this irritant of an issue for sometime now!

Long shot of a question but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask since I'm a technology moron. The transformer I use is an at least 10 year old MTH Z-1000 brick (no dial/buttons) plugged into my TIU using the adapter plug MTH sells. Is there anyway the transformer could possibly be leaking DC onto the track and causing the whistle to blow non-stop occasionally, or would more issues be present? Again, outside of the non-stop whistle, I've noticed the soft key features "repeat" themselves sometimes. I did a track signal test on a very basic oval that was about the same size as those included in the beginner kits and had 8-10 throughout. No lightbulb although I will continue to look locally for a suitable bulb. I hooked the DCS set up to the "good" loop and the DCS Remote Commander (such as the one in the beginner kits) to the "bad" loop and it works but the beginner remote is a bit "clunky" and doesn't always reliable send a signal so obviously I would prefer the full DCS set to be on the entire set up. 

I was also debating jumping wires from the input screw terminals on the "good loops" TIU input to the input on the "bad" loops channel and run trains that way to see what happens. Worth a try? Any suggestions/input on this idea and the above DC leakage theory? Any chance it could be the two engines I tested?

I would say no, as it is a plain transformer.  The controller on the other hand can cause issues, but you are not using it.

How are you powering the Tiu via Fixed 1?  If so how are you powering fixed 2?

G

Just to be clear, when you swapped the channel outputs for the good and the bad loops, the problem stayed with the loop and not with the channel, correct?

If so, the TIU and the transformers can be ruled out as the issue, leaving the loop and its wiring as the only possible culprits.

GGG - The Z-1000 transformers are plugged into the adapter jacks that MTH sells which are then plugged into the +/- ports on the TIU Input. Output is just two wires to the track, no more than a foot long. 

Barry - When I swapped the outputs, I also swapped engines on each loop. The problem stayed with the channel, fixed #2. I also tried running the bad loop via Variable 1 and no change in issues. I don't see how the wiring can be an issue considering A) I've re-done it multiple times and B) It is only two wires from the TIU to the track - that's it! Hard to screw up! I apologize if I was not clear. Technology has never been my forte! 

So if you run both engines on the good loop they work fine.  If you switch power supplies between loops, the same track loop stays bad.   If you switch the TIU outputs the same loop is bad.  If so, you have an issue with that TRACK loop as Barry stated.  A partial short on a track, dirty track, a switch that may be causing issues.  What is confusing me though, is you can use the DCS remote CDR on the bad loop and all work fine?   G

GGG

The good loop works fine regardless of what is on there. I have not switched the power supplies. I did switch the TIU outputs and issues continued on fixed #2. Fixed #1 worked fine (leading me to believe there is an issue with Fixed #2). Over the weekend I took the entire track running on fixed 2 apart and just made a small loop, no more than 3'x3' and still had issues - no switches or anything there and still had the whistle blowing non-stop on occasion. 

If I hook up the DCS Remote Commander, eliminating the TIU, etc, everything works as it should. 

George,

What is confusing me though, is you can use the DCS remote CDR on the bad loop and all work fine?

My understanding is that the DCS Remote/TIU combination sends commands differently than does the DCS Remote Commander.

However, I am somewhat confused as regards exactly what has been the result of the swapping of TIU channel outputs.

Again, sorry for lack of clarity. I just spent about an hour testing. Here are the results, step by step of what happened, start to finish:

*PS3 diesel and passenger train on outer "good" loop on Fixed 1. Ran fine. 

*PS3 steam engine and freight train in inner "bad" loop on Fixed 2. Ran fine, BUT whistle got stuck twice

*Moved the inner "bad" loop from Fixed 2 to Variable 1 set to fixed voltage. Ran fine BUT whistle got stuck. Outer good loop stayed on fixed 1 and I did not move fixed 1 at all.

*Removed PS3 diesel from outer "good" loop. Left passenger cars on the track. Put the PS3 steam engine on the "good" outer loop ran fine, whistle still got stuck. Did not rearrange wiring on any loops. On the "bad" inner loop, still on fixed variable 1, put a PS2 diesel switcher pulling same freight train. 

*Ran trains, all seems to go well despite the steam engine getting the whistle stuck on. 

*Blew the horn on the diesel on the inner loop and switched back to the steam engine. Steam engine comes up blank (no engine name, etc on the screen. Just a blank slot. Speed showed 255 MPH. An inactive engine that was not on the track was brought to active list. Engine has limited control. I stop the engine. Won't go into reverse. Shut down and delete blank engine from remote. 

*Re-add the steam engine and remote shuts freezes and locks up

*Try to re-add again, remote shuts itself off. 

* Shut everything down, let it all sit for a minute. Try again, steam engine adds no problem, starts up and runs no problem. Diesel on inner loop runs fine and didn't have any DCS problems. 

Based on what just happened, I think, based on my very limited technical abilities and knowledge, I may have a DCS and engine issue?

Since the only time a whistle gets stuck is with the steam engine and not with the diesel, and since the steam engine is the only one where the whistle gets stuck, my money is on an issue with the steam engine. Since the problem only occurs with the steamer, regardless sod which track/channel it's on, DCS appears to be ruled out as the culprit.

The other anomalies, starting with the notorious "255"problem, are rarely occurring bugs in DCS 4.20 and older releases of DCS, which appear to be fixed in DCS 4.30.

Barry - Didn't know the 255 MPH is a bug. I have 4.30 in my remote and TIU so I guess there is still the occasion it can pop up. That really perked me up seeing that on the screen!

Since this seems to be engine related you can go back and check the steam engine for a pinched wire (purple) or motor leads White/Yellow inside engine) to chassis frame or solder joint to can motor frame.  The other issue can be the smoke fan motor.  Does the steam whistle stick if smoke is off?  Are the steam engine wheels and pickup rollers clean.  Pickup rollers need the internal pin cleaned with a solvent.  G

Check the steamer's tether connection, as well, particularly since this is a PS3 engine.

The wireless drawbar should be securely seated in the tender's receptacle. This can often require a bit of firm upward pressure..

You might peek up inside the locomotive at that connector as well, I've found those can work loose as well.

Thanks for the continued help and replies. Much appreciated. 

I ran my PS2 diesel this afternoon and it had the horn stick BUT stopped before I could repress the button. Did that a few other times. I then did a track signal test on both loops using all three of my PS engines (2 PS3 and 1 PS2). On both loops, track signal ranged from 7-10 depending on the engine. Some all over the board (PS3 particularly) and the PS2 for example held at 10s most of the time. Test was done with one engine at a time. No other lighted cars, etc on the track. Engines ran at 2-3 MPH. 

A question - is it normal, or at least somewhat common or heard of for different engines to have different signal readings? For example, a PS3 showed 7 or 8 in one spot while a PS2 showed 9 or 10. Also, is there a general "scale" as to how much reliability, etc is lost on each track signal scale (1-10)? For example, with 10 being best, how much reliability, etc is lost at 9, 8, and/or 7?

I asked a friend who is quite the DCS guru (at least more than me) if he has any magic lightbulbs and/or filters I could borrow/buy to try. I never focused much on track signal on this particular layout - bad idea I guess. When I set it up in March, it was basically the same track plan as many previous layouts that always worked without issue, just with different track. Same TIU, Same transformer, etc. I guess if it worked I wasn't worried. I frequently get  soft key features "repeating" so I guess the signal has an effect as well. 

Thanks again for the help - much appreciated. 

A few more random thoughts after I just was able to spend about 25 minutes screwing around with the trains. Thankfully I've had a quiet day so I've been able to spend a good deal of time testing. 

1) I noted the signal strength nearly always shows 10 when the engine is not moving but at about 2-3 MPH, shows all over 7-10. If it running through a 7, it shows 10 when idling with the signal checker going. Normal? I also ran at the usual speed per the loops both showing generally 9/10. Is there an ideal speed/scenario to run the track signal test? I've read both idling and at a slow crawl such as 2-3. A slow crawl seems to give the most variety of readings and perhaps most accurate?

2) I ran the engines solo as reported above. I put a lighted passenger car on my inner loop, an MTH Railking 60' streamlined coach of new-ish production. I really didn't notice much, if any improvement in signal strength with the coach added at 2-3 mph. Normal?

3) Edit - forgot a question. In regards to lightbulbs and filters, any particular pros and cons for either? Can I use filters and lightbulbs or is it just one or the other?

Thanks again!

1) I noted the signal strength nearly always shows 10 when the engine is not moving but at about 2-3 MPH, shows all over 7-10. If it running through a 7, it shows 10 when idling with the signal checker going. Normal? I also ran at the usual speed per the loops both showing generally 9/10. Is there an ideal speed/scenario to run the track signal test? I've read both idling and at a slow crawl such as 2-3. A slow crawl seems to give the most variety of readings and perhaps most accurate?

The ideal speed is standing still.

2) I ran the engines solo as reported above. I put a lighted passenger car on my inner loop, an MTH Railking 60' streamlined coach of new-ish production. I really didn't notice much, if any improvement in signal strength with the coach added at 2-3 mph. Normal?

Yes, that's not surprising. As I've stated before, an 18 volt bulb is what works best.

3) Edit - forgot a question. In regards to lightbulbs and filters, any particular pros and cons for either?

In my experience, 18 volt bulbs and filters are about the same on buss wired layouts. However, on non-buss wired layouts, such as mine, an 18 volt bulb appears to be better .

Can I use filters and lightbulbs or is it just one or the other?

I've never tried, however, I'd speculate that it wouldn't be any better than one or the other alone, and could actually cause less improvement in signal strength than one or the other alone.

Barry, 

Thank you very, very much for the assistance. A light bulb it is (hope it works!). I found this website for 18 volt bulbs. Again, being  inept in most forms of technology, is there any particular bulb that is better than another? I'd probably go for a screw base as it is probably a bit easier to find a base to put it in on the layout and wire up.