what is the signal when a train is getting underway? i always thought it was two short, but i have seen stuff that says it is two long.
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Originally Posted by Forrest Jerome:
what is the signal when a train is getting underway? i always thought it was two short, but i have seen stuff that says it is two long.
Forrest,
It doesn't really matter whether it is two short or two long, two for forward and three for back up. Depending how long the freight train was, the Engineer probably would have blown two long/loud in order to let the rear Brakeman, Conductor, and or Flagman to get aboard the caboose NOW. In passenger service, the Engineer may blow only two quick shorts when the Conductor gives him the Highball from one of the car vestibules.
When stopped, the use of long LOUD whistle blasts would be used to call out the rear Flagman, and then call him back in again, prior to departing.
thanks, HW.
Officially, two long is the signal for Release Brakes, Proceed. In daily railroading, it was used more before the advent of radios installed in engines and waycars, to make sure, as Hot Water pointed out, that the rear-end crew was not left standing near the waycar. This would then cause the rear-end crew to give a hand or lantern signal to proceed, indicating that they were ready. (See second paragraph.) Also, when steam helpers were used mid-train and on the rear, this whistle signal was important. Although still required by rules on most railroads, it fell into disuse as radio communication became prevalent, and management did not generally make an issue of it. Eventually, some railroads changed the rule to permit using radio communication, but some still require it for the benefit of anyone near the train.
Two short were used to acknowledge a hand or lantern signal to proceed. The only time two long was used on passenger was when the train was stopped at a signal or - in train order territory - burning off time on a wait order. When the time was expired or the signal changed to some kind of proceed indication, the Engineer sounded two long, after which the train crew opened a dutch door and gave a highball, answered by two short. If it was merely a station stop, the train crew - not the Engineer - decided when it was time to depart. The members of the train crew who had stepped down to the ground passed a highball from rear to front (for safety, to be sure all loading and unloading was finished). The Engineer took the highball from the Trainman closest to the front, and the answer was two shorts.
Steve,
That "Train Rules" must be REALLY old. I have never seen that two longs and two shorts signal for "Approaching public crossings at grade." .
What is the date/era of that printing?
Yep...very old book.
This is what is on UPs website...
| Sound | Indication |
| Succession of short sounds | The whistle is sounded in an attempt to attract attention to the train. It is used when persons or livestock are on the track at other-than-road crossings at grade. |
| = | When train is stopped. The air brakes are applied and pressure is equalized. |
| = = | Train releases brakes and proceeds. |
| o o | Acknowledgment of any signal not otherwise provided for. |
| o o o | When train is stopped: means backing up, or acknowledgment of a hand signal to back up. |
| o o o o | A request for a signal to be given or repeated if not understood. |
| = o o o | Instruction for flagman to protect rear of train. |
| = = = = | The flagman may return from west or south. |
| = = = = = | The flagman may return from east or north. |
| = = o = | Train is approaching public crossings at grade with engine in front. Signal starts not less than 15 seconds but not more than 20 seconds before reaching the crossing. If movement is 45 mph or greater, signal starts at or about the crossing sign, but not more than 1/4 mile before the crossing if there is no sign. Signal is prolonged or repeated until the engine completely occupies the crossing(s). In addition, this signal is used when approaching private crossings if pedestrians or motor vehicles are at or near the crossing. (In the states of California, Idaho and Montana, the whistle is sounded at all crossings, public and private.) |
| o = | Inspect the brake system for leaks or sticking brakes. |
| = o | Train is approaching men or equipment on or near the track, regardless of any whistle prohibitions. After this initial warning, "o o" sounds intermittently until the head end of train has passed the men or equipment. |
Steve's book is old, but does fit what I have always heard on the 'evolution' of long-long-short-long that the early rules called for a long-long-short-short when approaching a grade crossing. As time went on, more and more engineers would hold the last short until on the crossing and that over time, it morphed into the now common long-long-short-long. Is it true, is it folklore.....I don't know, but it does make a neat story!
On a side note, along our right-of-way, we do have an old N&W cast iron sign that reads long-long-short-short and we were told it was a very old whistle sign for a crossing.
Originally Posted by Hot Water:
Steve,
That "Train Rules" must be REALLY old. I have never seen that two longs and two shorts signal for "Approaching public crossings at grade." .
What is the date/era of that printing?
I was wondering who would be the first to catch that!!
Not really as old as one might imagine. It's from the ICS course book on train rules, 1928.
When running against the current of traffic, the whistle signal was different. We sounded an extra long and a short, instead of two longs, a short and a long. Any employee on or near the tracks thus knew to expect a train running the opposite direction of what was normal.
