Why aren't people BUILDING models any more?

Mark s,

I can't add anything constructive here,(at least I feel that way),except to say,I'm also TOO OLD to take the time to build. I want to run trains.

Buildings,there are few kits for,of course my friend,"Imagination," offers me help there-he said," Cut some nice cardboard boxes up & use them 'till you get the time & patience to construct something better,(if ever).

O Scale is a largely Craftsman hobby,to which I take my hat off in honor to all those fine modelers that lay track by hand,build structures,and or build car kits. I did a lot of that in my early years of HO,but that ship sailed or possibly sank,not sure which.

That's my 2 cents for whatever it's worth, have a good day.

Al Hummel

- Much more stuff (locomotives and rolling stock) available as RTR now than 50 years

   ago.

 

- still a lot of building going on but it may tend to be building layouts rather than

   equipment. Many of us are running out of time (meaning we are old) and  

   concentrate our efforts on doing benchwork, trackwork, wiring, scenery, etc.

   Can't  purchase those things RTR so to speak except some scenery things so we

   buy equipment that is RTR and spend our time on the non RTR aspects.

 

- there are still guys building locomotive kits and scratchbuilding such as RRJJF,

  bob2, and Harmon on this forum, but i believe at least two of those guys have

  completed layouts.

 

- I used to take Red Caboose and Intermountain kits on vacation to build because

  they required very few tools to complete. About 10 years ago I tried to get some

  Red Caboose GN reefer kits but was told they were only bringing in finished cars.

  They were willing to "special order" about a half dozen as kits for me and were

  surprised that anyone would want a kit. I would sit on the deck of the beach

  hotel we stayed in and would build them. That always seemed to attract some

  young fellows (5-10 years old) to watch. When asked if they would like to help the

  answer was always "no."

 

- some folks seem to have a disdain for folks who only buy RTR. I don't feel that way

  since most real railroad equipment is purchased RTR by the railroads, although I

  believe the B&O at one time did actually purchase some box car kits and assembled

  them in PA or NY.

 

- I believe 50 or so years ago most O scale layouts I was aware of were basic track

  layouts without much in the way of scenery because so much time was spent

  building equipment. Today, that time may be reallocated to scenery building with

  the proliferation of high quality RTR equipment.

 

So there is my perspective. Since I represent Sunset Models / Golden Gate at a number of 2 rail shows I do talk to many O scalers and I hear much the same from many of those folks.

I sit at a workbench, staring through a magnifier repairing sophisticated printed circuit boards for 40 hours a week.

 

Sitting at a workbench, staring through a magnifier at home for "relaxation" has lost it's luster.

 

I've got a stack of freight car kits and locomotive modifications just waiting for me...

 

...When I get the enthusiasm.

 

Rusty

Some great comments here. I build all my own structures, but when it comes to rolling stock, I have tried to build only items that are not commercially available or probably won't be for a long time. I started my layout almost fifteen years ago using only analog equipment, but now have made the adaptation to run both DC and DCC. I think, having realized that my ten by twenty segment foot layout is as big as I will go, has led me to a level of satisfaction where sometimes I am happy to run in a scenenicked setting but I also always have a couple of projects under way.

All the best,

Miketg

I am a member of a round-robin group that is mostly HO.   we "operate" on each others' layouts every week for the most part.  

 

By operation, I mean we run the trains to some sort pattern, we move the cars to industries with switchlists, car cards, or somesuch.    The train control may be TT&TO or CTC or just shouting across the room.    But the layouts get scenicked and we try to run the trains with a purpose to move freight and sometimes passengers.

 

That is a huge trend in HO and I think in O also as layouts get built today.   As you say, there is much more RTR and that frees up time to develop layouts with more detail than just a loop of track.   and it leads to operations rather than just running in circles.   

 

When I built my current layout, I put in a hidden connection that allows continous running.   The track plan is twice around the room from staging to staging unless the hidden track (descized as a coal mine) is used.    And now I realize I have not used that continuous run connection since 1995-97 when I had an open house for National Convention.    Even for open houses, I just run a few trains from staging to staging.  

 

So I think with all the RTR stuff, there is more focus on layouts and less on building individual models.    We are building more model Railroads and less railroad models.

Mark S, great topic, there is probably many diverse opinions concerning Building Kits, or Buying Ready to Run Locomotives, or ready to Place on the Layout, Beautifully Made Models of Houses, Buildings, Streets, Structures, so, in A nut shell, it's called TIME.

We live in a Modern World where Time is Of the Essence. Trains that Operate so Realistically, By a Single Hand Held Remote that Controls The Entire Layout.,..That it's Simply More Fun to get Those Beautiful Trains Rolling as Fast As POSSIBLE. WE Live in the Best of Times, and Our Manufacturers are Listening....I Really Like Command on Demand Control. It's a Blast.....Happy Railroading....

 

     Mark back when I was A kid growing up we did not have much money so I was always finding old stuff cleaning it up, fix it and repainting it to make it function and look as good as new. This is how I have lived most of my life. I get A lot of pride from taking old junk and making it work and look new. With train items when I switched from HO to O I saw what I thought was neat and cool items that I bought for example the Greyhound bus station, Lionel's barber shop and the MTH bank to name A few. After reading OGR magazine I saw that all the stuff I thought was neat and unique was the same things quite A lot of other people also had. After meeting Patrick H. most of his structures were hand built and I thought that was really neat. Now I have decided to still use the plastic buildings for now to get the scenery done until I can scratch build most of the buildings by hand that way my layout does not look other peoples layouts as much. Take care and thanks for letting me add my two cents worth. Choo Choo Kenny

Absolutely no time.

I think time is the biggest factor regarding fewer model builders. No scientific evidence, just listening to what train buddies say. I have enjoyed building kits by: Old Pullman, Athearn, Scale Craft, Weaver/Quality Craft, and others. Walthers did a great job in offering passenger car kits that were within the skill levels of many. The best offering  Walthers had, in my opinion, was the PRR N5b caboose. I built 2, and bought as many as I could when attending shows.

 

I recently built a GloorCraft freight station and their crossing tower. I am very pleased with the results. Being retired is a big advantage....I could never find time when my family was young, and I worked the hours I did. I felt lucky then to belong to a great club(Clarion Model RR Club) meet great modelers who were happy to share....and have a modest home layout. 

 

For anyone even thinking about building a kit...."Just Do It".....fun, challenging....satisfying.....and relaxing. An early writer for O Scale Railroading, the title of our favorite magazine years ago, wrote a monthly column entitled "Scrounge" in which he demonstrated how to use stuff from around the house, garage, basement or dumpster to make great models for O Scale Railroads. I think there is a place for such a column today.....Dave Minarik is a modeler with that kind of skill!

Besides having little time, just look at the quality of Woodland Scenics RTR buildings with all the add on details and it's hard not to go with the "ready-made". Of course the negative side of it is, you pay for RTR.
Ray.

Looking back, when I would go to the O scale meets I saw models, mostly engines, which I thought were too expensive for me.  Got acquainted with Bernard Gallagher who had built five versions of Southern Consolidations, equalized, clevises on all the motion links, scratch built everything. His model was better than the Japanese stuff!  I showed him a mechanism I was trying to salvage for my model.   He told me in the kindest way to throw it away and start over.  Wonderful advice for a beginning scratch builder.  Turns out, accumulating the tools needed was more expensive than buying a RTR.  But doing the research and learning the skills necessary was more than worth it.  Met some incredible people, learned something about how steam engines were built.  Nothing like having your work turn out well done.  It can be done, you have to want to.

interesting topic and comments. I am almost ready to set up a layout and am most interested in modeling natural scenery. i intend to landscape existing buildings and may build a few of my own buildings, but I'd just like to run trains for awhile before I do that. It seems like just running trains without doing any sort of modeling would get boring after awhile.  

how many high schools still have industrial arts (metal working, woodworking and drafting for those who don't even recognize the concept)?  how many parents do you know who have a workshop in the basement or garage?  i know quite a few adults with kids and very few have anything in their house other than a drawer with few very basic tools.

 

i grew up mostly building projects out of Popular Electronics and later from Byte Magazine, but i always had access to a table saw and drill press.  more than once when we were out i used to hear my father take a look at something and say, "i can build one of those", and in a few weeks he'd turn out a functional copy from memory.

 

cheers...gary

O scale was a craftsman scale before the advent of Chinese-made imports.  I am not sure if the advancing age of O hobbyists  (model railroading in general) or the lack of time is the cause of the decline in model building. 
Maybe it is easier to trade dollars for instant gratification.   In general, model building takes time and practice to acquire the basic skill set.    Folks don't seem to invest the time.  
The sad part of this tale is resulting lack of individuality in one's past time. 

RIP

Gene

Building kits and kitbashing RTR cars has been a long-time pursuit of mine. I've always enjoyed building kits or rebuilding an inaccurate car into an accurate one, and though I'm a lot older I have no intention of not continuing the practice. There's no substitute for a finished product that was either created or modified by your own hand.

Sure, I probably don't have enough time to complete everything I have planned, but I'll still enjoy the journey getting there.

 

 

Ray,

 

No doubt about the quality of the Woodland Scenics buildings.  Unfortunately, if you put one on your layout, aren't you pretty much compelled to try to match it in quality with your own stuff?  I feel that way, which is why I haven't bought one.

 

I have scratch built a simple small flat (ingot) car and ingots.

 

I am planning to scratchbuild a slab carrying flatcar as well someday.  I have a couple of Ye-Olde-Huff-n-Puff flat cars that I will assemble to use as idlers.

 

I really like scratchbuilding structures now, although I was a bit afraid of it before.

 

George

I usually have at least 3-4 building projects on the work benches at any given moment.  I just finished up building 2 boxcars, a MoW tool car, and the hopper motor (see my OST column...), and am  working on an engine house kit (soon to be a trolley barn).  I slowed down a bit since I had to install a new cane seat in one chair and prep a second a chair to re-cane.  Distractions.......  Granted that what I build is probably 10:1 scratch building to kit building (instructions bore me and bad instruction irritate me...), but it's all building models.

 

I keep hearing that no one is building models anymore and I'm trying to figure out who's buying the kits and building supplies and detail parts and paying more than me for them, .  When I was talking to Q-Car at the East Penn meet, Quentin told me he's selling more detail parts and supplies than ever.  And, I have no problems selling off my excess parts and supplies either.  Ok, maybe it's all getting stored in another basement somewhere, but I don;t think that accounts for everything.

 

And if no one is building anything anymore, then why there's always a hand wringing exercise every time a decal supplier, a paint source, a kit maker, etc. is announced as going out of business or production, etc? 

 

Folks don't want to invest the time......and I don't know if that's resting at the doorstep of RTR or not.  You should have more time than ever with RTR to build the stuff you can't buy.  And, I have 3 paying jobs and a couple that pay nothing but aggravation but all take a lot of time.

 

Up until relatively recently I presented hands-on clinics at NMRA and O scale conventions on building stuff.  Seemed to always have good attendance and interest from folks that ranged from never made anything to a few guys that were done in record time.

 

Maybe the sky will start falling later today, too.

 

The sad part of this tale is resulting lack of individuality in one's past time.

 

Can only agree with that - after a while all the structures on the layouts will all become the same.....Stepford modeling.

 

I probably don't have enough time to complete everything I have planned, but I'll still enjoy the journey getting there.

 

3 Filing cabinet drawers of plans and ideas and a rack of shelving of projects and kits (think 4'x8' size).  And, I'm having fun working my way through them!!!

 

 

some buy...some build kits...some kit bash...me?...i scratch build...always have...and hopefully will always be able to do so...to each his own...

 

i was born in the early 1940s...money in the 50s and 60s was tight...if i wanted something...i had to build it...old habits die hard...

 

my very best regards...howard...

There ya go!

 

Also..."Absolutely no time.".....  You're right, we've all got higher priorities.  We always have the time...but just not for everything.  Oddly enough, later on we (confession, here) sometimes re-evaluate the priorities-past, and realize () they were not well thought out.  This is especially true regarding 'touchy-feely' things guys, in particular, are not very good at.....relationships, friendships, communication, sharing, giving of time, etc..

 

But, enough of the obvious.... 

 

I enjoy looking through the old, old periodicals of the hobby of 50+ years ago.  There were LOTS of articles back then of building engines, cars, structures, scenery, animation, ....you name it...but with simple tools, inexpensive/common materials, etc..   The regular feature articles had catchy names, like "Kitchen Models", "Dollar Models", et al.  Nowadays you might call them crude facsimiles.  Back then, they were to be admired by family, friends, and, yes, yourself for the effort expended.  Pride.  Smiles. Education.  Improved skills.   And...'Next time I can do better!"

 

Then came the kits...and a lot of the pre-thinking and interpolation was forgiven.  Here's the parts, here's the steps, follow the instructions....voila!  Still, it took time, it required some skills, patience, but a bit less overall time, surely.  And yet, the pride, smiles, admiration were still there.  And, even...'Next time I can do better!"

 

But, now the whole thing seems to have been defaulted to someone else.  'They' think it all through.  'They' create the plans.  'They' create the tooling.  'They' build the models.  And, at least for me, a whole lot less 'pride and admiration'....except for the financial/budgetary smoke-'n-mirrors that justified/enabled its purchase.  And...next time? 

 

I keep thinking about one noted forumite's sign purported to be at the entrance of his layout room.... "I did all this while you were watching TV!"  In fact that nags at me whenever I am staring at the screen....really.

 

That said, I'm yet most often hunched over my workbench working on something for the hobby...car kits, building kits, scratch-building, repairing, restoring, painting, weathering.  The layout, itself, is languishing, unfortunately, but for some rather complex reasons (read: excuses).  Aching/aging joints are among those 'reasons'.

 

I wish developing the old skills required of building things for the hobby were more commonplace.  I think it would be especially valuable for the younger generations.  AND it would certainly be more affordable to them!  Dad taught me.  Are there dads to teach them nowadays? 

 

I wish there were yet more periodical articles that encouraged creating cars, structures, animation, etc., from kits, kit-bashing, scratch-building....even if it meant re-printing the aforementioned articles from 50+ years ago.  Maybe with a challenge and photo-op section....to celebrate, encourage, inspire!?

 

Anyhow, this thread has at least inspired me to show more of my own builds.  I'm inspired by everyone's contribution/creativity.  I should throw in with the dwindling crowd, so to speak.

 

Good topic.

 

KD

I still build kits. I have quite a few Intermountain kits that were never available ready to run.

With worsening eyes and hands not so steady anymore and my desire to just run trains the days of building models is over. 

 

I never was into building models but if I needed something I did it. Also I just did not have time. When I was working I worked 60-70 a week and time I did have was spent doing family stuff and a little time running the trains I had. 

I have the time but not the capabilities.

There is always a project.  The kits are available even if not from the original manufacture. Some road blocks. Paints available have changed, prices have increased quite a bit. Some of the parts suppliers are gone or have discontinued production, seems like more each day. Bowser has greatly reduce available material.  Brass parts and scale wood products are still readily available.  Building parts like windows, doors, shingles, etc. still available.  Always seems like you are tweak-ing or changing materials to allow for what's available from a rapidly changing world.  I was very fortunate (8) years ago to do a nice build of a Turn-table with a Korber 304 house.  I did two Korber 304 houses at the time, still available.  I looked at some of the suppliers for the Turntable build, several are no longer there, but I'm thinking, that's part of the build thing, nothing is ever quite the same.  I was surprised to see Testors change so dramatically, almost like the model railroad industry meant nothing to them. IMO. If you look closely on the Walthers site there are still some limited acrylic railroad colors, 1/2 oz bottles, same price as 1 oz bottles.   Maybe I've been spoiled, there was always an easy and abundant source of materials.  The supply has been limited but there are still parts/pieces available to build things, just a matter of getting the head focused and adjusted I guess.   Mike CT     

I enjoy building kits and I enjoy kit-bashing.....however, the availability of some of the built-ups gives me the opportunity to have on my layout something I could not do on my own.

 

Peter

They are building them! Those sneaky rats just aren't reporting in to tell you they are doing so!

 

Simon

I think Ray hit it on the head for me.  

Where have I heard "if you build it they will come" LOL.
Ray.

There is some truth to what you state - there used to be a good number of folks that would post their projects and efforts on this forum.

 

Almost all have left or decline to post, or got tired of being told there was no interest. 

 

And, some just passed away....

 

Yes, I enjoy SOME building.  I just don't want to build MOST of the stuff needed to equip a layout.  Been there done that back when HO didn't have NEAR the variety/availability as now, also in Sn3 where about the only way to do what I was doing was assemble "Railmaster" steam engine kits that took about 60 hours per to assemble (and that doesn't include painting), heavy kitbashing or scratchbuilding the needed rolling stock, and so forth. WAY too much of a time sink hole.

 

Ran into this same thing in S scale, and when I decided my allotted time (life) was being used waiting for product, or having to modify a lot of what I wanted on my layout, I decided to return to the "Land Of Plenty"... HO.  Had my chops busted by a few of the S scalers that basically told me "S scale is a BUILDERS scale and not everybody can hack it."  Whatever!

 

Bottom line is that now I simply don't have the time to sink into building, kitbashing, etc., almost EVERYTHING that is needed to do a layout the way I want to do it.

 

Therefore, I'm amassing as much HO RTR as is practical, along with select "do it myself" projects I want in order to give my layout its own identity.  I will piddle with some of the projects along the road to retirement as I can. Mainly, though, I want the needed "stuff" to be on hand so once my "never ending weekend" commences, I won't need to face large expenditures on the model trains/layout... instead that will then be the point to invest my TIME into the effort.

 

However, as with all things, your mileage may vary, and probably will!

 

       
       



Wayne's World. The second movie.

Try "Field of Dreams" with Kevin Kostner.

I'm in the minority here.  I love to build models - plastic, brass, wood, doesn't matter.

 

Yes, it takes a lot of time.  Moments that I think, 'why' but the end results are worth it.

 

Scratch built or kit; it doesn't matter.  I love the end results.

 

Buildings, locomotives, rolling stock...awesome to have items no one else has or will ever have.

OH, almost forgot about these scratch builds!

 

 

 

L-R:  Weirton Steel Blooming Mill, Highway overpass (Crawfords Crossing), Weirton Steel Open Hearth (my first scratch build).

 

I've got lots of plans for scratch builds.  It's the only way to get the unique buildings I need.  But it does take time.

 

George

Sawdust43,

What a beautiful job on those buildings.

They look as though they were built out of tin!

 

Kit building requires skills not taught today in middle or high school normally as they were some 35 yrs ago. 

 

Additionally as some have pointed out, you need the equipment.

 

Well if your not trained how to use a simple drill press or table saw safely and effectively, why would they buy one?

 

As for myself, I honestly love building kits and only wish I had more time to do so.

I also love to refurbish derelict locomotives, cars and buildings to look like new again.

 

To take a piece of scrap and turn it back into something nice is time consuming and very gratifying. 

 

My hat goes off to those who possess the capabilities to create a complete locomotive from scratch.  It takes great skill, talent and creative thinking to do something like that.

 

Getting the current generation interested in model building is like trying to find hen's teeth.  I've tried several times to get the young boys I personally know to give it a try.  None have shown any interest.  The only thing they are interested in is the latest app for their IPhones.

 

 

While O gauge modelling might be in the decline in the US it isn't everywhere.

If you expand your horizons as I did you will find that modelling in O gauge is alive and well in many places. In the UK it is a big market and is mainly kit based with a good percentage of scratchbuilders too. Even Europe the home of RTR has a good selection of kits and parts on offer. Have a look at some of the Busecker Spur O videos on Youtube ( my German is not good but I can read the pictures) :>

Australian O gauge is predominantly kit with a high percentage of scratch as there is not the large selection of appropriate models to purchase in any form such as you have in the USA.

I model NSWGR and most of the few kit offerings are beyond my means or unsuited to outdoor use. I can spend my spare time watching the idiot box, net surfing or modelling. Guess what I chose?

While in the 50's it was possible to purchase all basic parts needed from local manufacturers such is not the case in this era, however I do not let such things stop me. By using parts from local, British and US manufacturers I am able to build my railway as best I can.

Perhaps some need to get over trying to compare their efforts with RTR items. While RTR items can speed up the creation of a layout, RTR is no more modelling than the toaster I purchased last week. Skills are not given out freely they are learned through effort. I am building a model railroad not a collection of perfect railway models. My hands are shaky and my eyes weak, that is why I am doing it in O scale. :>

 

regards

 Bob Comerford

Australia

 

 

And some good work you do too Bob

 

Glad to see you on the forum

I've found building models CAN be as expensive as buying ready-built stuff, but sometimes there's no other option if what you want isn't commercially available.

 

Here's a Seaboard Air Line Section Master's House I built from plans out of the defunct Mainline Modeler mag:

 

 

 

No manufacturer is going to offer something like this.

 

What I dislike about ready-built buildings is most of them are compressed to the point they don't look right sitting next to a full-scale model.  The house above is huge compared to the ready-built offerings I've seen.

 

I'd love to see this in a RTR model:

 

 

 

But if done in brass it would be 3-5 times the cost of what it was to build from scratch.  I expect it cost me well over $100 to build using a Weaver 50' tank car, brass would be much higher (plus it has a lb of lead in the bottom!).

 

Modeling the old Seaboard Air Line has forced me to build my own because none of the manufacturers are willing to take a chance on doing anything but the "Big Five" RRs.  Which manufacturer is going to take the risk to make this:

 

 

I wish I could buy everything I wanted in accurate RTR, I'd rather spend my time running trains instead of cutting parts out of styrene, or hunting down trucks, paint, and decals, or making do with things that aren't accurate.

If your in O Scale 2-rail you build or modify everything.

Looking at some of the 3 rail Blokes layouts looks like they do the same.

Roo.

Criticism could be a factor here too.

people don't want to be criticize, fair to fail or not achieve the  results.

Beside the tools you need and time.

I remember, when I was young, I was taught how use tools and perform some task, but not everyone has the same luck. I know people that doesn't use a simple tool, and for modeling you have to use very specific tools to engineer some of your stuff. 

Scratchbuild Freight Station and Boxcar.