Why did the UP restore the 4014 & not 1 of the other big boys?

Probably all of the above.  4014 was also in California where the weather is pretty kind to things that sit around for years.

Don't count on THAT.

None of the other 4000 class locomotives were ever inspected nor even "looked at" for consideration. The current manager made the sole choice, based on personal reasons.

Let's say you were going to restore one. Which one would you have done - the one in Omaha? Just curious.

Yes, the 4023, but prior to it being trucked up the hill overlooking Interstate 80.

All I know for sure was that 4023 shared a roundhouse with 3985 after a complete shopping in 1957 before they dropped the fires on all UP steam for good other than 8444.

Ron Ziel's 1963 book, "Twilight of Steam Locomotives" shows both of them sitting inside the roundhouse. That lasted until sometime in the early 70s, when each were moved outdoors. So for about 30 years she sat outside. If she'd sat indoors that whole time, she'd have been a shoe-in for restoration. I'm not sure how she compared with 4014 overall, mechanically. 4014 was outdoors longer but in a far more forgiving climate since being put on display in the early 60s.

The UP steam Program found that nothing was rusted and everything was okay that they wanted something that would be easier to rebuild. So that was it.

I assume you have been drinking the current manager's "Kool Aid" too?

You're making the assumption that there is anyone currently with the UP steam program that is qualified to make such a determination.  Evidence would suggest otherwise.

I realize this may sound as a lame bit of reasoning.  But, giving due consideration to current U.P. management, as referred to in another post......   I read a bit of public relations information concerning the 4014 restoration, and reason given (ready?)....... was due to the number board...4014... in reference to the year restoration initiated.. 2014.  I am certain other factors played in, but for public relations reasons, that was explanation given, that I read.

4014 was in very good shape when it was donated. It had received a major service and supposedly made part of the trip to Los Angeles under its own power (so the urban legend goes). Rail Giants museum took several steps that, in addition to the mild Southern California weather, kept the locomotive from rusting away despite being parked for more than 50 years:

• removed all of the would-be trophies and stored them for safe keeping (and tack-welded the whistle and headlight mounts in place).
• Removed the pistons from the cylinders and stored them, thus preventing them from seizing in the cylinders.
• Removed the asbestos from under the boiler jacket. Asbestos abatement is one of the few California environmental regulations that had a positive outcome (opinion). When asbestos gets wet it forms an acidic residue which would eat through the boiler. They also did this to several locomotives at Travel Town.
• Packed the bearings with grease and had oil in the lines.
• Emptied the coal bunker
• Replaced the pistons with painted steel tubes connected to the cross heads to preserve the appearance.
• Kept the locomotive in a relatively secure environment to prevent vandalism.

Supposedly, the two Big Boys in the best condition were 4014 in Los Angeles, and 4018 in Texas, but 4018 had seized pistons and had its side rods cut. 4014 was in far better shape due to the steps take above.

UP approached Rail Giants seeking to purchase 4014 outright and were turned down.UP sweetened the deal by offering a trade-in. They offered a freshly painted SD40-2 (running condition) a freshly-painted box car and a freshly painted caboose (you need a lot to fill that empty parking space). The deal was done and they moved him out last fall after the LA County Fair. The irony is that when it came time to pull out onto the SP/Metrolink tracks, that's when 4014 decided he didn't want to leave (brakes stuck). The replacement equipment (which traveled under heavy guard to prevent being tagged) was moved in when they connected the track and was leap-frogged back the same way 4014 was moved out to the the north end of the parking lot.

Estimates were that it would take between three and five years to restore and between three and five million dollars. Don't know what the actual numbers are right now or if they've revised the estimates.

They have it sheltered at Cheyenne and have begun taking it apart. Don't know how far along they are or what schedule they'll meet. The end target is to have it running in time to make an appearance at the 150th anniversary of the completion of the Transcontinental Railroad and the driving of the Golden Spike. Supposedly, the LA County Fair people are in negotiations to have it make an appearance in 2019 as well. I'm going to see if I can find where I stored the photos from the night before the move-out.

Can someone explain to me why that diesel being in running condition was a factor at all? It's not like they have enough track to run it anyway...

Rail Giants wanted a running locomotive as part of the deal. While they don't have the trackage and immediate need, they may at some point in the future decide to re-configure the display and having a running diesel makes moving the other equipment a whole lot easier. Though there have been no announcements or discussion I'm aware of, given the location of the Rail Giants museum within the FairPlex property, they could easily put in a track out to the Metrolink platform and run a rail shuttle just for laughs and grins.

Travel Town in Griffith Park is similarly situated and has two running diesels (a 40-ton industrial switcher and a Baldwin AS16) which they use for caboose rides and moving equipment around. They're currently restoring ATSF M177, a gas-electric, to running condition which at some point in the future will be used for excursions between Travel Town and the LA Zoo.

Didn't someone post a chart with the flue times on the forum a while back and 4014 had more plus the preventative preservation  steps made it a no brainer?

The "remaining flue time" from 1959 would be immaterial, since the boiler would require a complete disassembly anyway, per current FRA regulations. All tubes & flues would have be removed in order for a complete ultrasound test/inspection of every square foot of the boiler shell. Both front and rear tube sheets would likely require replacement also. 

Such work would have to be done on any locomotive considered for "restoration", no matter WHAT 4000 was selected.

If I remember correctly Ed's story was that 4014 had about 60,000 miles since it had been shopped by UP prior to being donated to the museum. Obviously that doesn't count for much in the flue department but it might help in other areas of the locomotive - wheels, bearings, pumps etc. Could also be that the museum was the best candidate to trade it away vs the other museums, cities etc. I was told that the box car to be traded was restored by UP then accidentally put back in the system so they had to quickly find a similar one and paint it there in California. I seem to remember photos of Ed and crew with paint rollers from Ed's slide show.

Matt, as a kid in the early 50's my Pop had a hot dog stand at the fair. I was let go to run around the park all day. There was an outdoor layout that I think was "O" gauge. Spent hours watching the railroad run. Is it still there? Don

Now there is a kick in the bleep a dee bleep.....

I suppose like any company workers like to mess with each other. I was told 6936 was sent off for some engine repairs and when the steam shop called asking on the status they were told it was on its way back when it had actually been put back in service. They finally found it back near Kansas City on a freight heading somewhere other than Cheyenne.

The outdoor layout was what's known as "F" scale -- 1/2" to the foot. Everything was scratch-built and they had trucks and buses running on the highway around and through the layout. Several years ago, they replaced everything with #1 gauge, mostly LGB and USA Trains equipment. It's still a pretty spectacular layout.

The O Scale layout (Citrus Empire) was the indoor layout under the bleachers which had operated since 1938. They were temporarily shut down during WW2 because the fairgrounds was an internment site. They were unceremoniously kicked out in 2005 because Fairplex (the contractor running the fairgrounds for LA County) wanted the space for "craft and quilting displays" (official story). Rumor is that they actually wanted to make it a betting lounge for off-track betting that had been made legal a few years earlier. Of course, when people kept asking what happened to the layout, the Fairplex people wanted Citrus Empire back, but the club refused without a 99-year lease (good for them) because they didn't want to get kicked out again. I was even contacted regarding finding another group (I work for Los Angeles County and someone from Parks and Recreation tracked me down) but I told them that Citrus Empire was about their only shot.

By the way, Kent, I heard that story. Don't know if it's true, but it sure was funny...and would not really surprise me unless they're really detailed on the work order.

I saw 4014 pass through salt lake on its way back to Cheyenne. There is no way that engine ran on the way down to LA the front truck has serious damage. I think at some point it hit something. The wheels on it arent running straight ones tire is down to the wheel metal. They had an oil line rigged up to lube it to keep it from wearing more. That stuff didnt happen in the fairgrounds. Looked to me like the engine needs ALLOT of work!

Like I said -- urban legend. However, they did tack-weld it to the rails to keep it from rolling in an earthquake, and judging by how easily it moved after they ground off the welds, that was definitely a wise thing to do. I can't speak to what, if any, toll is exerted on a steam engine sitting outdoors for 50 years, even in mild-weathered Southern California.

I dare you guys who doubt me to go look at the other ones in person. I saw 4014 in Pomona and I met one of the Guys he said the same thing that everyone in the UP YouTube Video said about why they chose 4014.

Check the UP Website as well more info than I have.

Maybe some of you guys who do not like how the steam program is going should make a trip to UP headquarters in Omaha and make a presentation to management as to how the program needs to be run and also tell them how much money they should allocate yearly to see that things get done to your satisfaction.

Don't waste your time. The management in Omaha think that things are just fine.

Just LOOKING at a steam locomotive - ANY steam locomotive - tells you nothing about it's internal condition.

The important items that really determine whether a steam loco is a good restoration candidate are all hidden. What does the inside of the boiler look like? What does the inside of the firebox (side sheets, crown sheet and door sheet) look like? Is there any rust or corrosion in the mud ring? What about the running gear and spring rigging? You can only inspect that from UNDERNEATH the locomotive. Pretty sheet metal and a nice paint job don't mean a thing.

As for what is posted on the UP steam web site? All I can say is don't believe everything you read on the internet.

I herd rumor that UP Steam will be no more in a few years...I replied has been no UP Steam for a few years...The Feds are cracking down on coal fired power plants all the way down to charcoal grills...only a matter of time before no more steam period 

The UP steam locomotives are oil fired, as is SP4449, SP&S 700, Santa Fe 3751 & 2926.  So, no issues there.

Well said. You wouldn't buy a used or classic car without opening the hood, would you? You wouldn't assume it was in great shape just from the body having good paint, would you?

A coat of paint means nothing. I know of several steam locomotives (as does Rich and Jack, I'm sure) that are excellent candidates for restoration and are in great mechanical shape, but the paint is horrible and they look all icky and rusty. Anyone can break out a bead blaster and a paint gun, it's what the condition of the parts is like. Just because 4014 looked great from the outside, in itself, doesn't mean a thing. And anyone who really knows steam and how locomotives operate will know that.

I find all this reading to be fascinating. In several threads on several websites, I have seen major negativity towards the leadership at the steam program in Cheyenne. It's too bad. You would think that would be a dream job for any competent steam fan. I will definitely continue to watch and see how this all comes out.

Don't let the opinions of a few disgrunteled people spoil your views of the steam program.  Now that one of the frivolus lawsuits was thrown out and the other one is a bigger joke maybe now we will see more progress on the locomotives.

Progress, yes. However, they are still taking 844 apart and performing unnecessary work, and have cut out lower portions of the firebox.

Good point! 

Forgot to mention, all those "disgruntled" members of the previous steam crews, always kept one, or both, UP steam locomotives operational. Nothing operational since July 2013 now.

One of the posting I saw and I'm sure others did also showed they uncovered some questionable repairs that were done to 844 and to be on the safe side they are doing extra work to make sure the equipments lasts instead of putting a band aid on it and hoping for the best.

This whole steam thing seems quixotic to me. Sure! I love them!

But these railroads are businesses! The "bottom line" is EVERYTHING!!!

They're not "playing with trains!"

This thread is about restoring a Big Boy. I'd love to see it happen! Hope it does!

But, how many times does it happen? An old locomotive is brought back to life. Like Jurassic Park! Then, finances gets in the way. And the beast is donated back to static display somewhere. To moulder another half century!

The N&W Class A.

CP's 2816.

Where's 3985 now and what's her status? (Question as I don't know.)

It's all a little crazy!

If these thing can't actually make money, instead of being money sinks, they will all die. "Public Relations" only gets you so far.

More utter nonsense from the current manager. If he hadn't tried to use #2 diesel fuel for one season, there would not be firebox "problems" to repair today.

I don't see why there is so much criticism of the steam crew and its management either.  At least they are restoring steam engines and they are running them.  It may not be the way that the critics think it should be done but so what? We should have far more respect for those that do things than those that criticize and get in the way.

I applaud everyone who is involved in making the UP steam program work and all the volunteers.  They have taken on a difficult task and I am confident that they will eventually accomplish their goal.  

NH Joe