Why Was The 027 Southern Pacific Box Car Never Cataloged?

scale rail posted:

I have over the year collected a number of 027 box cars. One has never been cataloged as far as I can tell. It's the Southern Pacific #96743. It was made from about 1949 to 52. It came with two types of couplers. A very nice car but never even saw one in a set. Anyone have info on this car. Don

I like these cars SCALERAIL, and have this car too. While it has the 96743 number on its side, it was cataloged with the # x6454.

Other versions that I also have are:

Erie x6454/81000, NYC x6454/159000, Pennsylvania x6454/65400. I don't know why Lionel did this, if they were in sets, or if there were any others in this series.  Oddly, the Baby Ruth version of this car sports a x2454 #

They did something similar with the operating versions of these cars, using the x3464 prefix. NYC (both dark and light orange versions) are #'s x3464/159000 (same suffix as the non-operating NYC version) and the ATSF version x3464/63132. Again, oddly the Western Pacific version of this operating boxcar has a 3474 # instead of 3464.

I found all of these interesting to find and collect - are there any more?

This is all the 1949 to 52 versions. There are a few color variations also. Don

NICE collection!

scale rail posted:

I have over the year collected a number of 027 box cars. One has never been cataloged as far as I can tell. It's the Southern Pacific #96743. It was made from about 1949 to 52. It came with two types of couplers. A very nice car but never even saw one in a set. Anyone have info on this car. Don

Don, I can only lay my hands on the 1950 catalog but an SP 6454 was cataloged in the 1471WS 027 set headed by a 2035. Might be a few other sets or listed as separate sale car in the back of other catalogs.

Pete

scale rail posted:

This is all the 1949 to 52 versions. There are a few color variations also. Don

Don,

I didn't know about the red SP, something to look for while in York

Yes, those were made I think after the brown ones. Also the white lettering is different and there were not metal steps. . The hardest to find is the Baby Ruth. The pictured NYC is a lot more brown than the Eire that is more like the common NYC. Don

I just went through my catalogs from 1948 to 52 and the only box cars are The New York Central 1948, Santa Fe 1949, Erie 1950 but no Southern Pacific or Baby Ruth in freight car pages or set pages. There is a shorty Baby Ruth Scout car but it's not one of this type box car. 

1950

Once again in 1951

Pete

@Norton, it seems that your post includes the complete catalog pictures direct from the LCCA Digital Archive/@John Holtmann/Hybrid Systems Ltd., Inc. and may not be ethical or legal.

POSTING of COPYRIGHTED PHOTOS By participating on this forum, you agree not to include in your posts any form of copyrighted material which includes but is not limited to photos and copy obtained through sources other than those that are directly owned by you or by designating within the post that you have permission from the owner to use. OGR has adopted a no tolerance policy on copyright infringement and you agree to be responsible for any infringement on your part on this forum knowingly or unknowingly that results in financial damages to OGR. OGR will seek reparations to the maximum extent of the law in these cases.

bmoran4 posted:

@Norton, it seems that your post includes the complete catalog pictures direct from the LCCA Digital Archive/@John Holtmann/Hybrid Systems Ltd., Inc. and may not be ethical or legal.

POSTING of COPYRIGHTED PHOTOS By participating on this forum, you agree not to include in your posts any form of copyrighted material which includes but is not limited to photos and copy obtained through sources other than those that are directly owned by you or by designating within the post that you have permission from the owner to use. OGR has adopted a no tolerance policy on copyright infringement and you agree to be responsible for any infringement on your part on this forum knowingly or unknowingly that results in financial damages to OGR. OGR will seek reparations to the maximum extent of the law in these cases.

 

 

Your implication is the LCCA has purchased the copyright to all of the Lionel catalogs. Do you have the documents or a link that prove that?

Images from Lionel catalogs are presented here nearly every day, many times a day when a new catalog is released. Hard to imagine Lionel would object to that.

Pete

"Works originally copyrighted between January 1, 1950, and December 31, 1963. Copyrights in their first 28-year term on January 1, 1978, still had to be renewed to be protected for the second term. If a valid renewal registration was made at the proper time, the second term will last for 67 years. However, if renewal registration for these works was not made within the statutory time limits, a copyright originally secured between 1950 and 1963 expired on December 31 of its 28th year, and protection was lost permanently."  (https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ15a.pdf, page 2)

Would not expect Lionel to have renewed copyright for a merchandise catalog.  However, copying and pasting from the LCCA website indeed may constitute copyright infringement of the work product of John Holtmann's HSL Inc and the LCCA intended for members only. 

What, me worry?

Not a copyright expert, but I would expect that John Holtmann/HSL owns the specific digital conversion of the catalog and has licensing agreements in place Lionel (source) and LCCA (consumer) as applicable. If you had digitized your own version from a paper catalog, as @scale rail did, you would own the rights to that specific piece of work. 

scale rail posted:

I have over the year collected a number of 027 box cars. One has never been cataloged as far as I can tell. It's the Southern Pacific #96743. It was made from about 1949 to 52. It came with two types of couplers. A very nice car but never even saw one in a set. Anyone have info on this car. Don

That version has the broken circle on the SP logo and was from the first run of those cars in 1949, and is the rarest out of the other SP boxcars I believe.

John, I could let that very rare box car go in the neighborhood of $1000 give or take a few bucks. Now if that neighborhood is to expensive, we could dicker a little less. This could be the first car made of the first run. Maybe even the prototype. In 1949 I was five years old and remember the Lionel salesmen saying that very thing. LOL. 

Don

scale rail posted:

John, I could let that very rare box car go in the neighborhood of $1000 give or take a few bucks. Now if that neighborhood is to expensive, we could dicker a little less. This could be the first car made of the first run. Maybe even the prototype. In 1949 I was five years old and remember the Lionel salesmen saying that very thing. LOL. 

Don

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