Wiring AD20A / IR RECEIVER PCB (NON-MODULAR) - 6108056200

TMCC devices, including the AD-20, share an AC and DC ground.  Here's the wiring for the AD-20A in a tender.

Got it! As always, thank you!

For my 5 volts dc I’m using a single diode with a capacitor bridging across positive and negative and a resistor.  Can’t use a bridge rectifier with the common ac/dc ground.  I have a small three lead voltage regulator that is putting out 5 volts dc from my track current.  I cannot get the Ad20a to respond to my serial connection from the cruise commander.  Tried reversing the serial and ground leads from the ccommander but no luck. No chuff, coupler, or backup light.  I have it wired per the diagram.  I am using Lionel’s Pacific tether with ir led and receiver. cs-6SP8066T24-p & cs-6208067088-p. Not sure what I’m missing. Thanks for all the help.  This really is a lot of fun!

@VT Railroad posted:

For my 5 volts dc I’m using a single diode with a capacitor bridging across positive and negative and a resistor.  Can’t use a bridge rectifier with the common ac/dc ground.  I have a small three lead voltage regulator that is putting out 5 volts dc from my track current.  I cannot get the Ad20a to respond to my serial connection from the cruise commander.  Tried reversing the serial and ground leads from the ccommander but no luck. No chuff, coupler, or backup light.  I have it wired per the diagram.  I am using Lionel’s Pacific tether with ir led and receiver. cs-6SP8066T24-p & cs-6208067088-p. Not sure what I’m missing. Thanks for all the help.  This really is a lot of fun!

Are you using an AD-20 board?

Pat

Yes, the AD20A nonmodular version.

For my 5 volts common ground:

L7805 LM7805 7805 Voltage Regulator Output 5V 1.5A, Linear Positive Fixed,

MCIGICM 1000uf 25V Capacitor, Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor 1000uf 25v

1N4001 Rectifier Diode, 50V 1A

10EP51210R0 10 Ohm Resistors, 1/2 W

John gave you the pin out for the AD-20. It makes its own 5V source,……curious why you’re making a 5V source?…..am I missing something?

Pat

@VT Railroad posted:

Yes, the AD20A nonmodular version.

Is it possible you got the wrong board?

They used that same board for multiple purposes and had different firmware loaded on them- as an example- for diesel ditch lights.

@harmonyards posted:

John gave you the pin out for the AD-20. It makes its own 5V source,……curious why you’re making a 5V source?…..am I missing something?

Pat

I agree, that is a 5V out on the board, not a 5V in.  2 power sourcing potentially fighting each other is never good for boards.

So it could be you messed up wiring

You may have damaged the board with that wiring and jamming 5V up the output.

It could be the right physical board- with the wrong firmware- so technically the wrong board.

Also, I appear to be slightly incorrect, the part number for ditch lights is AD20B- but the boards again are physically the same, so that's why I am saying, it might be possible they got mixed up.

https://ogrforum.com/fileSendA...Light%20Board%20.pdf

Notes on that topic of "versions" of AD20

https://ogrforum.com/topic/163461606221113483

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, to wrap up this topic.  I actually ordered these to be IR link boards for upgrades using the ERR RS Commander and the IR link.  However, I got the ones with the green dot.  Since that's obviously an error, I explained the colored dots to Lionel since they seemed to ship them interchangeably.  I sent the green dot ones back and got the proper 610-8056-200 white dot boards.

So from that, you want to ensure you have a proper white dot firmware version.

Edit- should have quoted also the @PaperTRW's reply

@PaperTRW posted:

I checked my stash of the non-modular AD20 boards and didn't see any with agreen dot.

I'm also not aware of another use besides the 691-PCB1-012 with the red dot for a diesel's ditch lights,

and the 610-8056-200 with thewhite dot for the wireless tether and back-up light/coupler.

TRW

@Vernon Barry posted:

I agree, that is a 5V out on the board, not a 5V in.  2 power sourcing potentially fighting each other is never good for boards.

So it could be you messed up wiring

You may have damaged the board with that wiring and jamming 5V up the output.

It could be the right physical board- with the wrong firmware- so technically the wrong board.

Also, I appear to be slightly incorrect, the part number for ditch lights is AD20B- but the boards again are physically the same, so that's why I am saying, it might be possible they got mixed up.

https://ogrforum.com/fileSendA...Light%20Board%20.pdf

Notes on that topic of "versions" of AD20

https://ogrforum.com/topic/163461606221113483

So from that, you want to ensure you have a proper white dot firmware version.

You may want to actually try using the AD-20A or AD-20B before professing that it has an internal 5V supply.  With track power connected, there is no 5V generated on the board, and that 5V pin remains floating around around 0.3 to 0.3 volts.  Also, if you trace out the track power, it is used to fire the couplers for the "A" version and drive the ditch lights for the "B" version.  When I connect up the board with an IR sensor receiving serial data, I don't get proper operation until I connect a 5VDC supply to that pin and ground.  Also, with track power enabled, the PIC processor doesn't have +5V on pins 1,8 until the external 5VDC supply is connected.

You linked instructions to illustrate the 5V connection, but I think you misread them.  This clearly illustrates +5VDC coming from the RS power board to the AD-20A board.

In short, the AD-20A or AD-20B will NOT function without an external 5VDC supply.

@harmonyards posted:

John gave you the pin out for the AD-20. It makes its own 5V source,……curious why you’re making a 5V source?…..am I missing something?

Pat

See my reply to Vernon, clearly the AD-20 stand-alone or modular board does NOT make it's own 5V supply.  I have actually used these boards.

@VT Railroad posted:

For my 5 volts common ground:

L7805 LM7805 7805 Voltage Regulator Output 5V 1.5A, Linear Positive Fixed,

MCIGICM 1000uf 25V Capacitor, Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor 1000uf 25v

1N4001 Rectifier Diode, 50V 1A

10EP51210R0 10 Ohm Resistors, 1/2 W

Disregard the naysayers, you will need a +5VDC supply for the AD-20 board!

However, something like a 220uf 35V cap is more appropriate.  For one thing, the 25V rating is marginal on your cap.  The peak voltage to your cap with an 18V AC input will be almost 25V, it's not good to run electrolytic caps right at their maximum ratings.  Virtually all track powered AC/DC supplies use 35V caps for that reason.  In addition, the 1,000uf is overkill, a 220uf cap is more than sufficient for the 30-40 milliamps that the AD-20 will draw.

I don't know what the 10 ohm resistors are for, but you don't need them to generate 5VDC from track power.

Here's my diagram for a universal power supply from track power, I select the three-terminal regulator based on the power output desired, 3.3V, 5V, 12V, etc.  Note the 22uh inductor is for DCS compatibility, it's a good idea to use those for anything that will be used with MTH DCS equipment also running at the same time.  The C1 and C2 values are "flexible", I use two caps in case I want to have more capacity, I can use up to two 220uf caps on this PCB.  The C3 cap is optional, it's used for stability if the DC load will be a long distance from the regulator output.  For loads within a few inches of the output, C3 is not needed.

Thanks John, That is what I understood. Since I’m using the RailSounds Commander, I had to make my own 5v power supply with shared common to the track power. In summary, using the the CCommander serial and ground connected to the ir lcd and the serial pin from the AD20a connected to the serial in on the RailSounds Commander should work for chuff, whistle and bell. Backup light and coupler are driven right off the AD20a.  I tested the ir led and it looks good. Will the same led test on my Fluke meter test the receiver?  Thanks for all the help!

OK, noted requirements for the typical AD20.

So when using typical modular Railsounds 4 or 5, you would have a 5V source from the power board.

In the case of ditchlights- could get 5V either from the R2LC (I know it has a limited 5V output) or the Railsounds power in most modular systems.

In the case of Railsounds Lite- because the board does not have 5V (only 3.3V) and this in theory is in the tender, you then need to build a 5V source. Again, the catch22 here is RS-Lite boards are 3.3V logic and local regulator, so you can't borrow power. But then, do you just go IR direct into the RS-Lite and skip the AD20 interface?

I'm just saying, kind of begs- why are we building a 5v power supply again?

EDIT- now I see- a Railsounds commander has a non common AC and DC ground, so the 5V (which would be common to the DC GND not AC GND) cannot be used. This is why this is an exception to the above scenarios.

http://www.3rdrail.com/err-3rd...uals/RSCmdr-Inst.pdf

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

See my reply to Vernon, clearly the AD-20 stand-alone or modular board does NOT make its own 5V supply.  I have actually used these boards.

Won’t be the first time I was wrong, ……it knew it put out 5V to make the receiver work, but forgot it received that 5V from the power board,…….

Pat

The real RS-Lite boards for Legacy will interface directly to the IR receiver, however the ERR RS-Lite boards do not have that capability and you need to provide it.  Neither of these will handle the couplers or backup light, the AD-20A works for the ERR boards and you'll need to use the LTC1 board for a Legacy installation.

For diesels, I recommend against tapping the R2LC 5V, it's very limited and it likely would be overloaded with the addition of the AD-20B board.  Forget about driving any LED's with the R2LC 5V, it's already driving the opto-couplers for the motor driver and the internal 5V demands, and the TO-92 regulator isn't up to adding multiple loads like that.

The ditch light outputs from the AD-20B are triac based, they were designed for incandescent bulbs, they need a load in order to drive LED's.  I suspect the .01uf cap used on the Cruise Commander lighting outputs would be suitable, haven't actually tried it.