Wiring dcs

My layout was built in early 90s, with 70 toggled blocks, and a common buss ground.  All wiring 14 gauge.  When DCS came out, I wired TIU between transformers and control panel.  Worked fine and still does.

I, actually, agree with RJR.  I would recommend you hook it up and see if it works...may be a total non-problem.

If there are any issues. let's discuss them in the forum before you think about rewiring.  My layout violates many "rules," but it works and works well.

Rod,

  Always Try DCS with your existing layout wiring before you make any plans to rewire. Many layouts work fine with the existing wiring.  If you are building a new layout then wire using the star and block method.

PCRR/Dave

Thank you all. Great suggestions. If I go that route hopefully I’ll be lucky without a rewire. I’ll certainly post results. 

If one is going to also run conventional with several trains on the same transformer handle, star wiring is contraindicated.  You need multiple blocks, preferably short, each controlled by a toggle switch on a control panel, to enable some control of each loco running on that handle.

One important recommendation, that does make sense, is to have only one hot (center rail) drop per block.

Robert,

If one is going to also run conventional with several trains on the same transformer handle, star wiring is contraindicated. 

Why is that?

I would agree that TIU channels should be assigned to loops rather than to "geographic" areas of the layout that span multiple loops. However, why is star or "home run" wiring a bad idea?

You need multiple blocks, preferably short, each controlled by a toggle switch on a control panel, to enable some control of each loco running on that handle.

A very good idea!

Because the star wiring concept, as usually explained, is to have a feed (hot & ground?) from the TIU to a centralized terminal block, with wires (hot & ground) bfrom that point feeding out to the blocks.  Since each toggle switch should control one block, this would have toggle switches scattered all over.

For maximum & easy control of a conventional bunch of locos, you need all blocks' toggle switches on a central control panel, with adequate gauge cable running from each toggle switch out to its respective block.  Track ground is not fed through the control panel, since it would multiply the number of wires there which (on my 36x16 layout with 70+/- blocks and some 45-50 track turnouts) is already astronomical; ground does have to run around the control panel for switch controllers.  On many panels, there are sketches of the layout with toggle switches and switch controllers on the location they control; on a large layout, this makes life easier than having all toggles and controllers in a neat straight line.

RJR,

   You can get rid of 3/4 of your wiring by using Fastrack Command Control Switches, Controlled buy a Cab2 or Cab1L, powered by Track power.

I do agree with the Centralized Terminal Block engineering, however it is not absolutely necessary either.  Mine are not any where near the center of my layouts in the new  29X18 Train Room, and they still work perfectly.   For me the only real reason for toggle switches is to shut down a sidings power, when an engine not in use, is sitting on the tracks.  Most of the time I do not even do this any more.  I do agree ONE hot drop per Block is the right engineering.

I am waiting for Lionel to come out with some advanced engineering, that allows sidings to be shut down from the Cab2 Legacy HHRC.  As a Professional Engineer I see this as another logical Engineering advancement in the running of Lionel Legacy FasTrack Command Control Switches.  Being able to shut down sidings using wireless low voltage switches, from the Cab2 HHRC, would be serious big time Lionel Engineering.

PCRR/Dave

Siding Power Control from a Legacy HHRC, via wireless, FTCC Switches.  Hopefully Lionel is already working on the Engineering Package that would make this possible.  I can see Lionel needs an MIT schooled R&D Engineer, for their engineering development of these particular kind advancements.

Dave, you miss the point of my post.  It relates to running a large layout using conventional equipment, or a combination of conventional and command.  If one runs several conventional locos on the same "loop", then one needs toggle-switched blocks to keep trains from running into each other, or to stop following trains when a preceding one is stopped or switching a siding. My longest "loop" is close to a scale mile long, so I can, and do, run multiple trains on it.  Before DCS, I would sometimes have 5-6 locos running at once:  I played the toggle switches like a pipe organist.

If one runs only command, then there are other considerations.  I would note that having the whole layout covered by toggled blocks means that a derailment needn't be fixed right away---just cut power to the block---and when multiple trains are running, allows one to pinpoint the derailment location.

By using SPDT center-off toggle switches, one can also use resistors or other devices to slow individual trains (I've not done that within the past 50 years--did back in the 1950s, to automatically control speed on grades with 2-way train running). 

Why would I spend the money to replace 45 switches with Fastrack wireless?  That would be several kilodollars. I don't have any Lionel control equipment. 

Robert,

For star wiring, one typically runs wires either one of two ways:

• From terminal block to toggle switch to track block.
• From terminal block to track block, with a break in the track block's hot wire that runs to and from a toggle switch.

For buss wiring, one typically runs wires in a loop around the layout's blocks, with Common drops to the buss from the track blocks. The drop from the Hot for each track block would then run to and from a toggle switch.

Regardless, any of the above wiring schemes allow switch track controls to be superimposed on a control panel track plan diagram.

I implemented star writing on my layout using the second bullet point, above. However, while all of my layout's 100+ sidings are toggle-switched, only some of my mainline track blocks have toggle switches. The layout works well and the wiring is relatively easy to follow.