Would you buy a NIB K-Line A5, if the ad says "No Returns" ???

Yes I would

Pat

If you're a tinkerer, like Pat, you would.  If it doesn't work when it arrives, simply fix it.

Mike

I believe PayPal still covers you even it says no returns.

If they're in ebay you do have the money back guarantee if the item was misrepresented by the seller.  To answer your question, yes I would but will read the description carefully and examine the pictures closely.

What does the sellers feedback say? Have they sold o Guage items in the past?

There seem to be more " non train" people selling trains on ebay these days. They think everything is new because it's in a box and they don't know what to look for.

Are there put of box photos? Pickup rollers and valve guides will usually show evidence of usage.

I don't think I'd pay full retail for a decades old conventional steamer.

Outside of that. There are of course several forum members capable of fixing a doa loco.  But, ya gotta leave enough money on the table during the purchase to make repair worth while.

Nope.   that statement is a turn-off for me.

It depends on the price. Assume its broken and spend accordingly. Conventional A5s typically go for less than 150 bucks.

Pete

The conventional version is a very low-risk purchase NIB.  You can procure the reverse board and the whistle board for peanuts if they're bad, and that's unlikely.

I sell on eBay regularly and have a no returns statement/policy. I am not a store, I am not making a profit on the items I sell. However I do test run and inspect everything I sell to give an accurate description.

As a seller if the buyer claims the item is not as described, eBay will charge back the seller and credit the buyer if each party cannot reach a resolution. And the seller has to pay for the return shipping.  As a buyer, this has happened to me a couple of times on items sold as new and were broken or missing pieces. If in doubt, send the seller an email through eBay to confirm your question. If they do not respond the item is not as described. If they do and its not, then you have a valid claim.  Buying through the auction houses - some check their stuff, others not, so that is far more riskier than the buyer protection through eBay.

As for the price, that is up to you.  Just be aware, this time of year sales slow down and some sellers will reduce prices to move the items. From what I am seeing, it looks like the crazy high prices are starting to settle down. Except of course for hard to get items like the Lionel CAB controls. 

@Norton posted:

Conventional A5s typically go for less than 150 bucks.

Pete

Not in the last two years.  Before that definitely.

Asking prices are way up lately.  These are north of $275.00 in most places now.

Mike

I just bought the conventional one on eBay a few weeks ago for $125, and I didn't think that was super low priced.  It's the one I'm upgrading to command with fan driven smoke.  It'll look good triple-headed with my other two.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Not in the last two years.  Before that definitely.

Asking prices are way up lately.  These are north of $275.00 in most places now.

Mike

Another one for 125, though it may be the one John bought, and a TMCC version for 185.

They are out there Mike. Stay mellow.

Pete

Dishonesty by buyers on online sell sites is a problem at times.  Scoutingdad said he had a couple come back because what he sold was missing parts according to the buyer, and in some situations, they might have taken that part because they needed it.  It is a known fact that folks will send a broken item to a relative so that a claim can be made that it was damaged in shipment.  Electronic items will have it noted, that if you send it back and the seal has been broken that the seller put on the item, indicating you opened the unit up, no refunds.  Commercial pack and ship places have one plus to them.  When they pack your item and ship it, there is a sort of de facto understanding that what was packed was intact and packed correctly, if it gets broken, the pack and ship place refunds your money immediately, and they deal with the shipper for breaking it.  Always take pictures of what you are selling from all sides, plus the packing process until you put the label on it.  Pictures always expedite claim resolution when you can show an intact 6 sided box with no dents compared the the banged up one the shipper said was your fault.  The biggest screwup shippers make, including commercial vendors, some advertised here, with Amazon the worst of them,  is that they think you pack an item by putting it in the bottom of the shipping box, and then put packing material around it.  Packing around 5 sides is no good.  The fine print in the FedEx and UPS contract says, use only new boxes with a minimum of 4-6 inches of shock absorbing material around all sides, that's 6, not 5.

@Norton posted:

Another one for 125, though it may be the one John bought, and a TMCC version for 185.

They are out there Mike. Stay mellow.

Pete

🤣🤣🤣🤣😆

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Yes I would

Pat

Yes, I would too - but, as I recall, the K-Line A5 lacks full valve gear (correct me if I'm wrong), which really looks odd on a well-detailed loco. Me - I'd go for the Weaver brass one.

The A5 0-4-0 is probably the only PRR loco that anyone could call "cute".

Just to be clear - I have never received a return from a buyer, my stuff is always as described and I go out of my way to make sure the item does not move in the boxes. That said, since I buy nearly everything in their original boxes, anything I sell goes to the next owner in that same box. I have never needed 4 inches around the item to keep them safe. If the box is packed, shake it hard to listen for any movement. If there is repack. Movement means stuff will break. If you have bought anything new from MTH, there is the master shipping carton, maybe some added packing and then the item in its retail box. I have to believe MTH knows what it is doing in packing and shipping.  Unboxed items are a different matter - another reason to keep the original boxes.

I bought a relatively new new MTH PS3 Diesel from a seller who provided detailed videos of it operating.  When I put it on my track, it would derail constantly. Turns out, one of the wheels was not pressed entirely into place. A gentle use of a c-clamp got it into proper orientation and it has been a great runner ever since. I have to assume the seller had the same problem, but could not fix it and sold it as if it were working fine. I would have had a hard time trying to return due to the videos of it working.   

As a buyer, I have filed claims and gotten all my cash back. I have zero issues buying on the Bay.

@D500 posted:

Yes, I would too - but, as I recall, the K-Line A5 lacks full valve gear (correct me if I'm wrong), which really looks odd on a well-detailed loco. Me - I'd go for the Weaver brass one.

The A5 0-4-0 is probably the only PRR loco that anyone could call "cute".

And not easy to make right. The MTH version has complete valve gear but dimensions differ enough that MTH parts won’t work with the K-Line engine. BTDT. You would have to do some serious fabricating to correct these.

Pete

My TMCC K-Line PRR A-5 is one of my favorite engines. It is definitely "cute" and blows perfect smoke rings. I use it to pull a consist of Lionel and MTH Christmas themed cars and Menards candy cars; appealing as a kids train.

I have always sold trains with a return guarantee. The very few times people requested a return, they had a legitimate complaint like a ladder was broken off in shipping.

The only way I would buy without the return guarantee is if you desperately wanted the engine, and the seller had a 100% rating, with reasonably high volume of sales.

@D500 posted:

Yes, I would too - but, as I recall, the K-Line A5 lacks full valve gear (correct me if I'm wrong), which really looks odd on a well-detailed loco. Me - I'd go for the Weaver brass one.

Finding the Weaver one is the trick.

@Norton posted:

Another one for 125, though it may be the one John bought, and a TMCC version for 185.

They are out there Mike. Stay mellow.

Pete

Pete,

Thanks for the feedback.

Here's my problem with the situation though.  They were all priced like that before the pandemic.

Now they're not.  From what I've been seeing asking price is at least $100 more most of the time.

As always patience is required in this hobby.  If you have it you're golden.  Mellow is good.

Mike

    Thanks for all of the replies and opinions.

      Well, . . . I know you guys are sick of hearing about this, but I bought a mint/NIB K-Line A5 last Christmas, for $250.  Still wrapped in celophane, the whole deal. And, when I put it on the tracks, the forward, reverse, neutral would not work.  Thank gosh I had a right to return.   What would I have done if it if had been a No Return sale.  There was no way on earth I could fix it, and it would have cost me a good deal of money to ship it off for repair to somebody.

      Happily, Trainz took it right back, and gave me an immediate refund and an apology. 

      And, I constantly read about Lionchief and other high quality items that don't work right out of the box.

      So, for me, I will never ever buy anything in the O Gauge world NIB at retail with no right to return. 

Mannyrock

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Now they're not.  From what I've been seeing asking price is at least $100 more most of the time.

I've had a search for the MTH, K-Line, and Lionel A5 on eBay, and I found this one for $125, I received it on May 23rd, just a week ago.  They are out there if you wait a little.   In the interim, I had bids on a few that I didn't get because I wasn't interested in paying that much of a premium.  IMO, $125 is a decent price, I bought several a couple years ago for less than $100/ea.

It's well on it's way to have fan driven smoke, cruise, Railsounds, etc.

There's one for sale on this forum - by me for $125.00 + shipping.

https://ogrforum.com/...whistle-0-4-0-125-00

That's the exact model I just got from eBay that I'm upgrading, #94.

@Mannyrock posted:

Hey Folks

I am seeing alot of ads for these conventional steamers, at full retail prices, by Sellers who say "No Returns."

Would you ever buy a K-Line engine, sold as brand new or NIB,  on a no return basis?

Mannyrock

Back to the original subject, no I would not.  I try to avoid wanting things that I have to have.  If someone doesn't want to back their merchandise, then I get very cautious.   If the price is at a "parts value" then I might. 

I prefer buying in person and seeing/testing the item.  Looking at the seller, his other merchandise,  and listening to his conversations gives me more insight than his feedback numbers.

MOB or NOS can still be DOA especially with the newer electronics.  YMMV.

"No Returns" can be a bit of a gratuitous statement. If the item is damaged in shipment they must allow you to return it.  If they make any sort of declaratory statement the item must meet those claims. If it does not you can return it. EBay will back you up in these situations. Though it can turn into a bit of a hastle and you must stick to your guns. I have asked a seller questions which they answered and though that info was not in their original ad when the item arrived it did not match their statement and they refused to allow me to return it. I contacted eBay and backed up my claim with photos and ebay has the mail where I asked the question.  In the end they told the seller he would accept the return or they would be giving me a refund and charging his account.  In this case you must package the item VERY WELL to insure no additional damage can occur and also have a signature delivery conformation so they can't claim they did not receive it.  It is a royal PITA.  Needless to say the item must be quit expensive to go to all the trouble.  Many what I call flippers on eBay who know absolutely nothing about model trains and often they make the no return statement then fail to properly package the item.                       j

Weaver had done the A5, maybe a better choice??

@Mike CT posted:

Weaver had done the A5, maybe a better choice??

Sure, just tell me where to find one.

@lpb007 posted:

"NNortonMember

And not easy to make right. The MTH version has complete valve gear but dimensions differ enough that MTH parts won’t work with the K-Line engine. BTDT. You would have to do some serious fabricating to correct these."

Are there any available parts or valve gear sets that can be used to supplement these models as built.  Thanks, Pat B.

There might be but MTH parts won’t work. Assuming you want to simply purchase parts and not fabricate from scratch it would take a lot of trial and error to find parts that fit.

As for better version of a PRR A5, not doubt there are but at 125 bucks this K-Line one is hard to beat. Runs well and solidly made despite its imperfections.

Pete

This is one reason why I prefer to buy engines at train shows - test tracks!

Some hobby shops also have test tracks and return policies

What is a fair price for a 3rail Weaver A5 with ERR Cruise Control Lite? Excellent condition. Great low speed.

@ctr posted:

What is a fair price for a 3rail Weaver A5 with ERR Cruise Control Lite? Excellent condition. Great low speed.

Probably depends on the quality of the installation work, I've seen good and I've seen bad.  The Weaver with what I presume is the standard reverse board is going for $300-400 on eBay.

After reading this thread it prompted me to look at one I received from a freind last fall (weaver version). I opened the box for the first time today. I never understood what people meant when they said the Kline version doesn’t have full valve gear…now I see what they are talking about.

Nice.  Thanks for sharing.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Sure, just tell me where to find one.

https://ogrforum.com/...rr-cc-lite#lastReply

What a coincidence - someone on this thread has one for sale! 

The MTH Premier A5 is a true scale model at the Pennsy loco. The K-Line/Lionel models are oversized.

I own both (as well as the original K-Line Club A5 that had a squared-off smoke box before a more accurate and expensive version was issued). I look at the Lionel version as an 0-4-0 that resembles an A5 without being an A5. And, yes, I bought it new at half the price of a used MTH A5.

Here are a couple of comparison photos (Lionel top photo):

Actually, I sort of understand not wanting returns on a NIB sealed product.  Once you open it, it's no longer NIB, sealed!

Charlie just agreed to sell me his for $125.

What a great deal for me.

My extreme thanks to Charlie.

"Full valve gear?  We don't need no stink'in full valve gear."  :-)

Mannyrock