York and MTH Scale Trax

Mike,

As I understand things, the items in short -- or should I say nearly nonexistent -- supply now are the #4 and #6 switches/turnouts.  I've actually had little if any problem locating other pieces in the line-up.  Plenty of O-xx turnouts, sectional straights, sectional curves, etc...  Even 30-inch rigid and flex track are out there.

And just this past week, after a TON of persistence and patience, I located the last of the #4 turnouts I needed for my new layout.  But I assure you it wasn't easy.  I practically had an APB out on them with over a dozen MTH dealers.  The #6 switches are nowhere to be found, except for hit-and-miss on eBay.  Word from MTH is they are expecting supply of these #'d switches to ease up in late Summer 2016.  Last October's York, the word was by the end of 2015.  Why that date was missed?  I don't know, but I suspect the answer resides in the various machinations of finding factories in the Orient to produce stuff nowadays.  It's become one heck of a mess over there.

Although I have what I need now, I do plan to speak with Mike about it at York if I see him in the MTH booth on Thursday.  If a vendor is gonna advertise a track system the way MTH has for Scaletrax, there's no way they should allow their own inventories in the States to drop down to Zero levels... and then keep dealers on hold for so long.  I can't tell you how many dealers I called recently who've had #'d turnouts on back-order for more than a year!  

David

Thanks for the information David. The reason I was asking is because I ordered 8 30" flex track, and was told that was all they had and didn't know when more would be arriving. Also they said they didn't know of any other venders that had any in stock.

Mike, I sent you an email about a potentially good source for those 30" Flex pieces of MTH Scaletrax.  Hopefully, that'll get you going! 

David

Hi David,

I just seen it and will be checking them out! Thank you for your guidance.

I have recently ordered numerous pieces Scaletrax sectional, flex, and switches. Those pieces are available at a variety of vendors IMO.   As David mentioned the only issue is #4 and #6's.  I gave up on that search last year after waiting for never filled back orders.  That and Mike from MTH could not even give me a ballpark of the #4's and #6's.  I was told "we're building them".  That was York 2015.  I remember Trainworld telling me they were informed those switches would be available in late June 2015 which actually meant that I should figure around November.  Well November came about and still no stock.   I compromised ( caved in? )and used 072 instead.

I too completely agree about how they advertise it vs available inventory.  I don't know of many here that would be willing to wait a year + if they are looking to start a new layout or change an old one.  Not to mention the uncertainty of future availability if more layout changes are made.

I personally love Scaletrax and would enjoy sticking with it on the next larger layout I will be building in my garage. I don't see that being likely though. Mostly due to the limited curves, switches and lack of curved switches and other pieces.  Hopefully if cash flow permits it will be Atlas, if not then Gargraves/Ross.

Sparky74 posted:

...  I don't know of many here that would be willing to wait a year + if they are looking to start a new layout or change an old one.  Not to mention the uncertainty of future availability if more layout changes are made.

...

Unfortunately, the manufacturing mess over in Asia right now has really defined a new paradigm.  And importers would have us believe that it's now acceptable to plan our layout's track acquisition as a multi-year project.  

Atlas-O enthusiasts are now just coming off an almost two-year drought without select pieces of track being readily available -- most notably 40" rigid, 40" flex, as well as #5 and #7.5 turnouts... Nearly 2 years!!!    So like MTH enthusiasts are feeling right now, this was largely a similar group of folks who were/are doing serious layout planning.

We admittedly refer to this time as being a "golden age of O-Gauge model trains", yet the period has been marked with some notable challenges regarding product availability.  And all of the importers have been so affected:  Lionel's 990/993 Legacy Kits, Lionel aluminum passenger cars, Atlas-O track, Atlas-O locomotives, Atlas-O CZ cars, MTH Scaletrax, and MTH steam locomotives... all come to mind quickly.  Even GGD isn't immune, as their 2nd run of El Capitan cars is reportedly being made by a different overseas factory (and running behind schedule as a result).

The skills to actually build track still remain Stateside, and we're fortunate to have companies like Gargraves and Ross (O-Gauge) as well as USA Track LLC (Standard Gauge) that can produce track on demand as required by folks planning exotic basement empires or club-sized layouts -- thereby circumventing various overseas supply chain issues.  When push comes to shove, these domestic companies are the only game in town.

For all other products in toy train land, we're very much stuck behind the proverbial 8-ball in that the tooling and manufacturing skills have been sold out long ago to overseas factories.   And aside from relatively low-production rolling stock (i.e., mostly 6464-style boxcars), they ain't coming back home any time soon.

Welcome to the 2016 "golden age of O-Gauge" paradigm.  

David

Missing release dates is the norm for MTH, it seems. I have order several MTH rolling stock pieces in the last couple years and waited and waited and waited. Finally I cancelled and bought in-stock items instead. To me it is frustrating. When I entered into this hobby several years ago I had no idea availability was so spotty. The stuff is expensive, the advertising for it is large, and then you can't buy it??? Dumb, if you ask me. Someone at MTH needs to go to business school!

LDBennett

Good morning, I was seriously thinking about switching to MTH Scaletrax for a new outer loop.

After watching the Black Diamond Railroad Video Series I thought this is what I wanted for trackage.

Again like most of you I had trouble finding what I wanted, and found that the lead times were unreasonable.

I simply went back to Gargraves and Ross which  i have used for years  and are still made here in the States.

I had what I needed in two days.

You simply can't beat picking up the phone calling to New York or  Connecticut. and have the person on the other end of the phone speak plain english and know exactly what you are looking for and can give you intelligent advice.

I think MTH needs to concentrate on what made them a great company in their early years instead of some of these other campaigns they seem to be engaged in so deeply today.

This is coming from a person that only runs MTH products !!!!

I sympathize with all of you.  Timing is everything.  When I first designed my layout I developed a list of everything I needed.  I was using Atlas track and Ross switches.  Got everything in one shot.  That was 7 years ago.  I'm still building the layout but it made life easier having all the track down.  Those of you holding out for Scaletrax should seriously consider using Ross.  You will not regret it from an operational standpoint and as far as looks it will blend in seamlessly.  They look fantastic with my Atlas track and I expect they would look awesome with Scaletrax as well.  It's a way out you won't regret one bit.  BigRail

I'm sure MTH wants the track readily available but apparently the demand does not meet the manufacturers minimum requirement run. From what I can see be patient when choosing this track system. It does look good though.

Romiller

romiller49 posted:

I'm sure MTH wants the track readily available but apparently the demand does not meet the manufacturers minimum requirement run. ...

Not exactly sure that's the case here.  Two things to consider...

First, there's quite a list of MTH dealers who have the #4 and #6 Scaletrax turnouts on backorder.  I've talked to nearly all of them who typically stock Scaletrax -- which by the way is admittedly NOT a huge number.  More MTH dealers stock Realtrax rather than Scaletrax, because Realtrax (with its integrated roadbed) is more for the carpet railroad crowd.  Two completely different markets.

Secondly, Rich Battista relayed a discussion he had with Mike Wolf regarding Scaletrax either last year or the year before.  And I recall something about 2 tons of raw materials need to be purchased when committing to a Scaletrax production run.  Assuming that's happened at some point in order for the other Scaletrax SKU's to be readily available now, then somebody really goofed when allocating how many #4/#6 turnouts to produce when two tons of materials were last purchased.  It's not like these turnouts have been here and gone already... 'cause when you talk with dealers, they'll roll their eyes and tell ya they've had those pieces on back-order for well over a year now. 

Nothing is as it seems with respect to manufacturing in Asia today.  We're hearing all kinds of horror stories, and quite frankly not everything makes sense.  So we move along one step at a time.  All things considered, I'm rather lucky that I was able to source what I needed in a relatively short period of two months.  I stumbled into Scaletrax purely out of coincidence -- namely I found Sidetrack Hobbies was blowing out their inventory at once-in-a-lifetime prices... like $24/each for O-72 turnouts.  And since I always admired Super-O track back in the 1960's as a kid but settled for just O-27 track at the time, I thought "It's now or never this time.", since I view Scaletrax to be about as close as we're gonna get in this era to the thin center rail profile of postwar Super-O.

Anyway, the bigger issue for MTH revolves around the fact that they do promote Scaletrax quite visibly.  It's smack in the center of the MTH website homepage, and they promote a dozen or so "package" layouts -- several of which require #4 and #6 turnouts.  Yet the supply is zip, zilch, nada!!!    So potential enthusiasts are quickly frustrated when they find they can't even source the items needed to build the layouts in MTH's Scaletrax brochure -- much less design/build even larger basement empires or club layouts using Scaletrax.  

So if you're thinking the demand isn't strong enough, I'd suggest this metaphoric phrase to MTH execs:  Catch 22.  Somebody's gotta budge first, and we enthusiasts can't make our feelings known any better than we have in the past couple of years.  I'd say the next move in the Scaletrax game is MTH's.  And hopefully it won't be to let this track system die on the vine. 

David

I wonder how much demand there would be if some entrepreneur made the iconic Super-O track again?

How would one do a market analysis before diving into production I wonder?   Just thinking out loud.

Great points David. I just hope Scaletrax doesn't end with the likes of Super-o.  A few brief years and done.

romiller

BigRail posted:

I sympathize with all of you.  Timing is everything.  When I first designed my layout I developed a list of everything I needed.  I was using Atlas track and Ross switches.  Got everything in one shot.  That was 7 years ago.  I'm still building the layout but it made life easier having all the track down.  Those of you holding out for Scaletrax should seriously consider using Ross.  You will not regret it from an operational standpoint and as far as looks it will blend in seamlessly.  They look fantastic with my Atlas track and I expect they would look awesome with Scaletrax as well.  It's a way out you won't regret one bit.  BigRail

Scaletrax - not so.  Ross and Atlas can blend somewhat easily due to the (over)size of the rails (all three of 'em). The beauty of Scaletrax is the thin center blade (an inverted 'T') and the smaller size and lower profile of the outer rails. It doesn't blend visually with any of the others which is a good thing! 

I came to this forum because I was strongly considering going with Scaletrax since my equipment is MTH.  I liked the look of what they advertised and the catalogue has several layout packages that I was also considering using.  Thank goodness for this forum.  After the info I can make an informed decision and buy a product made in the USA.  I will either use Ross track and turnouts, or Gargraves track with Ross turnouts as that seems to be the most recommended option on this website.   Thanks OGR.

I was at the MTH booth yesterday.  Mike Wolf was being monopolised by one person, so I talked to two other MTH staff who said the switches were "on the water".  

When I said, I've heard that before, the reply was, we had to rework some stuff, but they are ready and expected this summer.

Time will tell.

Ron

I sure hope they are right! IMO they have the best looking track, now if they can supply what they try to sell!

Folks, I would say Scaletrax has become the poster-child with respect to today's dilemma of dealing with Asian manufacturing facilities.  Think of it as a "perfect storm" if you will.  

Most enthusiasts still think as if it's 1950-ish, and factories are just across the river from NYC in NJ, where good ole JLC could call the factory superintendent and have something different made today... all on a moment's notice.  I wish that were the case.  We all do, but it's not.

Slowly... very slowly... we're all getting a clearer picture of how things work today in the overseas manufacturing world.  And it ain't a friendly picture.  More than once I've heard different importers tell me horror stories that would make most of us cringe... Factories closing; tooling locked behind doors of closed factories; reworking new tooling; searching for a new entity to build products; competing with other companies for factory production time; constantly negotiating with overseas factories who want to increase prices on the next production run(s); quality control issues; yada-yada-yada. It's like walking on quick sand.  And it's become more the rule rather than the exception.

Then add to all that uncertainty, the fact that importers are prone to changing priorities from time to time... so they can maximize their own profit margins as a company.

Think about it... Scaletrax is not gonna make or break MTH.  The company will survive with or without a full line-up of Scaletrax product.  Locomotives, rolling stock, and accessories enter into the mix too -- not to mention Realtrax, which admittedly many more MTH dealers carry than Scaletrax.  So I wouldn't at all be surprised if there's been some shuffling of production priorities over the past couple of years -- especially given the overseas manufacturing uncertainties today. And Scaletrax has gotten the short end of the stick each time.

I spoke with a senior MTH exec at York on Thursday, and this was essentially my candid take-away from the conversation.  These weren't his exact words, but he didn't try to avoid the issue either.  He knew exactly how long some dealers have had #4 and #6 switches back-ordered.  He mentioned some tweaks/improvements MTH has asked their Asian factory to incorporate in the switches, and was very confident of a late Summer 2016 arrival.  I said November more likely?  He said, no... It will definitely be earlier than that.  So that's the latest we have.

I thanked him for his honestly and candidness.  So we shall see.

David

Thanks for the update David!

Drummer3 posted:

I wonder how much demand there would be if some entrepreneur made the iconic Super-O track again?

How would one do a market analysis before diving into production I wonder?   Just thinking out loud.

 

This is an interesting question. I admittedly know nothing about market analysis so I wouldn't know where to start on that but I can't help the feeling that Super O would be at least be moderately successful just because there are so many Lionel enthusiasts that revere those postwar products.