York dealer and manufacturer question

@Andy Hummell posted:

I understand that the big dealers want sales, but I often wondered, as I walked past/through their booths, why they brought large amounts of the "latest-and-greatest" from Lionel and MTH.  Personally, in this age of built-to-order, I already pre-ordered all the latest-and-greatest from my LHS and a few internet/mail-order outlets, and have been doing so for longer than I have been coming to York.  I would think that a lot of others are in the same situation where these big dealers have brought stuff that people already bought/had.

When I buy from the big dealers in the dealer halls, I usually buy NOS (10+ years or older) or used items from collections they bought, and on very rare occasion, blowout freight cars that I wasn't otherwise interested in when new.  Most of my other dealer hall purchases are from places like video dealers, tool dealers, apparel dealers, Die-Cast Direct, Scenic Express, Millhouse River Studios, Mega-Steam, or Jack Pierce, to name a few -- usually to save on shipping costs.  Most of the treasures I bring home with me come from the member halls because the treasures were produced before I got back into the hobby.

I just wonder if the big dealers brought their oldest stock, purchased collections (used), and then filled out the rest of their truck space with newer locomotives and overstock, if they would have better sales.

Andy

Andy I think you hit the nail on the head. I go to York looking for two things. 1) blowouts on used/new old stock and 2) hard to find items I missed in the past

I think Mark Boyce hit the nail on the head here. The problem is not that it is social event (it definitely is somewhat) but that there aren’t enough young guys who are starting out and need a lot of trains for their collection or layout needs. I was one of those young guys when I started going to York exactly 20 years ago. I wasn’t and still are not one of the guys with a big budget. I usually came to York with about $300 and I almost never came home with any money. Only two times did I buy a locomotive and the seller allowed me to pay him the difference later on which I did. Now that I am in my late 50s I really do not need very many more trains. I just need a few pieces to complete my collection so like Mark said I have become very selective. My legs are still good though and I can walk all the halls in a day if I don’t stop to talk to someone.  

Trainmaster04, you are to be commended for getting it right from the horse's mouth!  I wish my elderly ma-in-law would have learned that lesson. 

Phil, Thank you.  There are certainly exceptions, but I was always like you taking about the same amount as you and coming home with no cash, in fact not enough to pay cash for a hamburger on the Turnpike heading home.  My last trip in the spring or 2018, my legs were good.  Now after two surgeries and still in PT, I would be one of those old guys sitting in the lobby of the Orange hall yacking with everyone on my 65th birthday; if I can even get myself there this fall.    Looking for 2022 to be a better year! 

Mark, I hope you can be fully recuperated by 2022. Keep up with the PT. Hopefully, I will see you at the next York.

Phil, thank you very much!  They said it would be slow, but again I am Responding slower than hoped.  I still haven’t totally ruled this fall York out.  I will have to figure out some trial runs in a month or so.

Worked for a few companies and the idea of going to a "trade show" is to increase your customer base. You are not selling product instead you are collecting contact information from potential new customers. Unfortunately for the manufacturers who attend York the pool of potential "new" customers is pretty much non-existent. I personally feel that most of the major manufacturers in the model railroad world could send 1 or 2 representatives to York with new product and have 1 table where they could give away catalogs and talk to the public.  Over the years I watched a few of the manufacturers duke it out to see who could have the biggest booth and now I think this is coming back to bite them in the preverbal butt! From a manufacturer's perspective  I think the the most beneficial thing we participated in were the presentations we did at the TCA museum. We were able to showcase our new products,  give away catalogs and answer everyone's questions but more importantly the TCA recorded the presentation and we were able to send it out into the cyberworld where all those who don't attend York were able to see it - a fabulous marketing tool!

Mark Boyce ,I am already to go but still not sure weather I will be going with the big C thing going on in the country.I was looking forward to meeting you but we will see what happens. It’s still 2 months away. Keep going with the PT and don’t rush it.

@poconotrain posted:

Mark Boyce ,I am already to go but still not sure weather I will be going with the big C thing going on in the country.I was looking forward to meeting you but we will see what happens. It’s still 2 months away. Keep going with the PT and don’t rush it.

Thank you!  I would like to meet you too.  Yes, we have 2 months.  A lot can happen!

I sent a message to Trainworld via Facebook, asking if they plan to be at York in October.

Their reply was "We are hoping to be there barring any covid setbacks."

York is incrrdible fun - checking out trains and meeting friends!  Let's hope it goes ahead and lots of dealers and people participate.  

Just added input for what it is worth.  Years ago when I first started to go to York I believe the attendance was around 30,000.  You had to get there early to get any kind of reasonable parking and then stand in a long line just get to get in.  The aisles were literally packed tight with no wiggle room.  All the halls were full and frequently added event tents were staked out on the parking lot.  MTH had a very nice display fifth wheel trailer layout that was simply gorgeous.

I used to go to every York show every year but it started seeming rather repetitive so I pulled back.

Anymore, not being a York junkie.  I usually go just through the Orange hall only in the fall every other year or so, not that much new or earth shattering for me to spend a day away.

For anyone who has never been to a York show I say consider it to be a bucket list item in your train career.  Well worth at least one visit.  Plan two days to carefully take it all in.

@Tom Tee posted:

Just added input for what it is worth.  Years ago when I first started to go to York I believe the attendance was around 30,000.  You had to get there early to get any kind of reasonable parking and then stand in a long line just get to get in.  The aisles were literally packed tight with no wiggle room.  All the halls were full and frequently added event tents were staked out on the parking lot.  MTH had a very nice display fifth wheel trailer layout that was simply gorgeous.

I used to go to every York show every year but it started seeming rather repetitive so I pulled back.

Anymore, not being a York junkie.  I usually go just through the Orange hall only in the fall every other year or so, not that much new or earth shattering for me to spend a day away.

For anyone who has never been to a York show I say consider it to be a bucket list item in your train career.  Well worth at least one visit.  Plan two days to carefully take it all in.

I have to agree Tom Tee. I and a group of friends went to every show for 20 years. My best friend passed away over  3 years ago and the group slowly stopped going. It’s still a great place to go but now it’s just me that attends. I do meet up with a lot of people I’ve met over the years and it’s great. To add to that I now live in South Carolina and the trip is around 500 miles one way. It’s not the 150 it used to be. If the show does go on I can honestly say this could be my last York. At my age the trip isn’t something I want to do anymore and I do have enough train stuff to keep me going. I can’t say the thrill is gone but it certainly is not the same. I will say to anyone who has never been there, if you have never gone and you get the chance go. You will Love it.

@rplst8 posted:

Lionel skipped a show in 2018 or 2019, so that’s nothing new.

Correction. Lionel skipped the April Meet, not the October Meet.

Pat

@Tuscan Jim posted:

I was just at Nicholas Smith last week and I was told they, along with Charles Ro, would not be there since there wouldn't be any MTH or Lionel presence--so, they opted out.  I'm obviously not officially confirming one way or the other, just passing along what I was told a week ago. The mention of Lionel not participating was something of a shocker...

There are a number of reasons a dealer might choose not to come to the York Meet, and of course, that is their prerogative. It does strike me as odd, however, that a dealer would elect to attend/not attend the York Meet solely based upon whether the manufacturers planned to attend, as the dealers are there to sell products to customers, and I don't see how the manufacturers' presence or absence from the Meet would impact their sales.

Pat

@GG1GUYY posted:

Hi All Lionel has told me that they will be at YORK in Oct. in their usual corner.

If the show is not cancelled.

They also plan to have a special VERY LIMITED York train boxcar.

The LCCA will be there also in our ORANGE HALL BOOTH. Lets hope for the best and see you there.

SAL GAMBINO/PRESIDENT LCCA.

Sal:

Thanks. There was some annoying erroneous information posted earlier about Lionel not attending.

Pat

@rthomps posted:

Lionel did not attend the April, 2019, York Meet.  At the time, the company stated that they would only attend October Meets.  Whether Lionel is changing plans - or not - I do not know.  But, I would expect to see them at the October, 2021, Meet, if held.

If my memory is correct, the Charlie Ro company did not attend the October, 2019, Meet as there were internal issues.  I've been told that Nassau Hobbies will be at York this October ... and I'm sorry to miss Charlie and Chris since I'm not attending.

Charles Ro did attend the October 2019 Meet.

Pat

@irish rifle posted:

Correction. Lionel skipped the April Meet, not the October Meet.

Pat

I never said which meet.  I just said they skipped one before.

@irish rifle posted:

Charles Ro did attend the October 2019 Meet.

Pat

Nope - Ro did not attend the 2019 Fall York. 

Early on I had considered setting up at York for my bench work business.  When taking in the travel & accommodation expense and ??? food, better part of a day to load up, the same to set up, then tear down and pack up plus being on the floor the whole day each day then coming home beat up...it was a non starter for me.

On top of that follow the money,  At least five days of no production in the shop for a sole prop.    I had a steady work load and did not need it.

If you have ever been to the business' mentioned you can see how busy they are with their established clientele. 

So do it for a tax write off?  Forget it. Spend $1,000 to get a couple hundred in  tax credit?  See how long that lasts...

OGR's   > $10,000 X 2 per year??   Try to convince your spouse  the wisdom of continuing with that.

The best thing about any train show is the camaraderie , the continuum of meeting with folks down through the years.  That is my most significant take away from any train show.

@Tom Tee posted:

The best thing about any train show is the camaraderie , the continuum of meeting with folks down through the years.  That is my most significant take away from any train show.

Tom, I believe all your points that make it not worth your while to set up displaying your business at any train show or meet.

I totally agree the best thing about any train show is the camaraderie!

For me, it’s because of the difficulty and expense the dealers endure that I buy just about all of my train purchases at train shows and meets. I enjoy seeing and making new friends too, but I go there to buy.

But I can only buy from the vendors that attend while I’m there. Outside of preorders, shows are where a majority of my inventory came from.

@Jim Sandman posted:

Nope - Ro did not attend the 2019 Fall York.

That's my memory as well.

I believe the Charles Ro group was not at York in October 2019 because of illness in the family so they didn’t have enough help to get there.

@Jim Sandman posted:

Nope - Ro did not attend the 2019 Fall York.

Jim:

I confirmed today with Butch at CharlesRo that they did attend the October 2019 York Meet. Indeed they have not missed a York Meet in many, many years. Unfortunately, that streak is about to end, as Butch also told me that they will not be attending the upcoming York Meet...

Pat

@irish rifle posted:

Jim:

I confirmed today with Butch at CharlesRo that they did attend the October 2019 York Meet. Indeed they have not missed a York Meet in many, many years. Unfortunately, that streak is about to end, as Butch also told me that they will not be attending the upcoming York Meet...

Pat

Then what was this about?

From 2019...

Don't confuse them with facts, Marty. 

-Greg

@irish rifle posted:

Jim:

I confirmed today with Butch at CharlesRo that they did attend the October 2019 York Meet. Indeed they have not missed a York Meet in many, many years. Unfortunately, that streak is about to end, as Butch also told me that they will not be attending the upcoming York Meet...

Pat

Irish rifle,

Very disappointing when you get bad info from what should be a reliable source.   I and many others were there at York in the fall of 2019, but Charles Ro and company wasn't.  They have such a large display you could tell they were missing the moment you walk into the Orange Hall and look at the back wall.

Hope you have a chance to enjoy Fall York 2021...

Jim

@Jim Sandman posted:

Irish rifle,

Very disappointing when you get bad info from what should be a reliable source.   I and many others were there at York in the fall of 2019, but Charles Ro and company wasn't.  They have such a large display you could tell they were missing the moment you walk into the Orange Hall and look at the back wall.

Hope you have a chance to enjoy Fall York 2021...

Jim

Jim:

Well said. Marty's post with the CharlesRo flyer before the October 2019 York Meet refreshed my recollection. It is amazing that the information I got directly from CharlesRo today was incorrect.

My apologies to you and my other Forum colleagues for getting this one wrong.

Pat

I Emailed Scenic Express to see if I could get an answer yes or no as far as York goes. As of yet I have no response.

@irish rifle posted:

Jim:

Well said. Marty's post with the CharlesRo flyer before the October 2019 York Meet refreshed my recollection. It is amazing that the information I got directly from CharlesRo today was incorrect.

My apologies to you and my other Forum colleagues for getting this one wrong.

Pat

No worries.  I seemed to remember they had a post about missing it the one year.    York will be a tad different but oh well.

Ya gotta consider time spent at York to be  entertainment.

Heck, a Broadway show, dinner and parking, for 2, would cost at least $500.

A movie for 2 today is $25-30, popcorn $10, soda $7.50 each

But we still go because we enjoy it

@Lionelski posted:

Ya gotta consider time spent at York to be  entertainment.

Heck, a Broadway show, dinner and parking, for 2, would cost at least $500.

A movie for 2 today is $25-30, popcorn $10, soda $7.50 each

But we still go because we enjoy it

You are absolutely correct.  Around here, one could mention ticket prices for a Steelers game.  Hundreds of dollars for one afternoon!  It is astounding!!

Not mention sitting around freezing in November and December!

@Mark Boyce posted:

You are absolutely correct.  Around here, one could mention ticket prices for a Steelers game.  Hundreds of dollars for one afternoon!  It is astounding!!

Not mention sitting around freezing in November and December!

After 27 years of owning NFL season tickets, I gave them up. Each game (2 seats) with parking was costing me $350 plus concessions and I couldn't handle the cold weather games in November and December. Add to that the hassle dealing with long waits in and out of the parking lots and watching inebriated fans engage in fist fights in my section. (I have yet to see a good fist fight break out in the Red, White, Silver or Blue Halls at York.)

Bruce,

I can identify with seeing fist fights, but it was at a Penguins-Flyers hockey game in the old Pittsburgh Civic Arena in the early ‘80s.  A bunch of Flyers fans drove over and were sitting several rows above my brother and me.  They and the Penguins fans sitting right below them had quite a few too many.  By the 3rd period it finally broke out into a fight with fans of both teams falling over the seats, and we were afraid they would spill into us.  Security officers broke it up and dragged a bunch of fans of both teams out of there.

You are right, I never saw any fist fights in the York halls!  😄

Mark,

Thinking about the last 25 years of attending York, I can't recall seeing any major disagreeable incident. It might be the case that most everyone attends with a very positive frame of mind and that the TCA membership process may filter out the most extreme looney-tunes people.

@MartyE posted:

York will be a tad different but oh well.

I'm actually very curious exactly what York will be like this year.  It will be interesting to see what transpires.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Bruce,

I can identify with seeing fist fights, but it was at a Penguins-Flyers hockey game in the old Pittsburgh Civic Arena in the early ‘80s.  A bunch of Flyers fans drove over and were sitting several rows above my brother and me.  They and the Penguins fans sitting right below them had quite a few too many.  By the 3rd period it finally broke out into a fight with fans of both teams falling over the seats, and we were afraid they would spill into us.  Security officers broke it up and dragged a bunch of fans of both teams out of there.

You are right, I never saw any fist fights in the York halls!  😄

Typical Penguins fans....always starting something!

-Greg

@Greg Houser posted:

Typical Penguins fans....always starting something!

-Greg

😆😆 how could you say that?  The Broad Street Bullys’ fans started it!  😆😆

@Mark Boyce posted:

😆😆 how could you say that?  The Broad Street Bullys’ fans started it!  😆😆

"We" never start anything!

-Greg

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm actually very curious exactly what York will be like this year.  It will be interesting to see what transpires.

I agree.  I'm wondering if there will be a plethora of items at discounted prices with the lack of recent shows/meets (I hope! )