prewar loco mystery chassis with unusual mechanism - mystery solved !

Ace

Do not know what it is from, but I would say it is pre war Flyer.

Steve

Steve's hint of American Flyer may be correct check this ebay sale if you look at the bottom you can see the lever(red). Also the motor looks the same.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AM-FLY...e92724#ht_500wt_1268

franktrain

The lever is the reverse lockout control,and is not actuated by a track trip. By the hanger bracket on top of the motor, this unit appears to be from an AF streamliner like a Burlington Zephyr or similar train.

I agree with ^^^ above. American Flyer prewar Burlington Zephyr.

Many Thanks for the info, guys. From looking at the Ebay photos, it definitely appears to be prewar American Flyer as you say.

The metal tab near the wheel does not pivot, it slides up and down in the chassis. If the tab is not for a trackside trip, the mechanism must be like a "power assist" to toggle the reversing switch. I can't understand the purpose of it. It would be easy enough to move the reversing switch manually.

Knowing that it is American Flyer is a big help in researching it, Thanks!

The tab locks the reversing mechanism in forwar or reverse. It lifts the arm that has the stud on it from dropping down and catching on the gear with the cam on it.

That sounds right, Chuck. Also the previous comment by milnyc sounds logical: "the hanger bracket on top of the motor, this unit appears to be from an AF streamliner like a Burlington Zephyr or similar train". I found photos of a Zephyr and the motor looks similar but doesn't appear to have the mechanism on the side of the motor, and the Zephyr train maybe wouldn't have any motor reversing anyway?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190648829387

Probably the same motor was used in different locos, but steamers wouldn't use the top "hanger bracket", right? So it's still puzzling me.

The set in the ebay listing is the 1934 set with only a manual reverse switch. I believe that the 1935 set had a sequence reverse. The loco was also slightly longer.

Here is a shot of the longer Zephyr with your type of motor.

http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/rai...mfly/locos/9914.html

Yes, that appears to be it !  Although the photo resolution is low, it does appear to have the mechanism on the side of the motor, and the tab near the rear geared wheel.

In looking more closely at our unit, I see traces of red paint around the tab - like the one in the photo below.

When the tab is pushed up, the reversing mechanism is deactivated. When the tab is down, it appears that the motor would repeatedly run itself back and forth about 9 inches, unless the linkage is supposed to work some other way that I haven't figured out.

Although this motor runs, we haven't done a track test because the center rail pickups are missing. The linkage is probably binding and needing adjustment. It is presumably supposed to reset itself when it stops, so it would reverse itself when it powers up again. So this was American Flyer's "sequence reverse" ?

The following photo is copied from the previous link given by milnyc.

Many Thanks for that lead !      

And below, our motor, which is missing the bottom name plate and center rail pickups.

The motor is from a Flyer prewar engine. The reversing mechanism is what I have been told is a centrifugal reversing unit. The catch you refered to is caught by a paw on the drive gear and pulls the reversing arm to move the reversing switch to the other position. This reverses the motor. When the motor starts to move again the paw will knock the arm up where it will be held by a lever that is attracted to the motor field and held there as long as the motor is running. When the power is again turned off the lever drops and again is caught by the paw which is still moving due to the momentum of the engine. The lever is moved in the other direction which moves the switch to the other position reversing the engine again. The lever on the bottom serves as an on/off switch for the mechanism.

Al

Now that is VERY INTERESTING, and now I understand how the motor works: that upper arm of the mechanism (not the hanger bracket) is attracted to the motor field, then drops when the power is cut, so it can sequence.  MANY THANKS for the explanation!  

Also MANY THANKS to milnyc for the link to an interesting and informative web site.  

http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/railways/oindex.html

It's maybe possible that this motor was also used in this unusual "streamlined Forney":

http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/rai...cos/9915aeolusb.html

"American Flyer 0 gauge ... no. 9915 Aeolus, catalogued only in 1935.  The loco and tender are formed from a one  piece aluminium casting (type 17), fitted with a swivelling four wheeled motor unit"

Prewar American Flyer sequencing reverse mechanism - illustrated supplement to the previous explanation by HOSO&NZ

The upper arrow indicates the arm which is attracted down to the motor field when power is applied. The lower arrow indicates consequent movement of the pin which raises the mechanism away from the catch on the drive gear. Quite the Rube-Goldberg device compared to the E-unit as we know it now.

The Burlington had a stainless-sheathed loco named Aeolus that served as reserve power for the Zephyrs (Aeolus being, appropriately, the god of the winds).

Cool train! So American Flyer just abbreviated it a little, from a big 4-6-4 to an 0-4-4T. I like it ...

Thanks to all for the input. It puts an interesting historical perspective on an old motor.

This operational motor (as shown in first four photos at top of post) is available for sale. Open to offers and open to advice on what it is worth. It appears to be the motor for an O-gauge prewar American Flyer Burlington Zephyr. It will maybe also fit the prewar AF Aeolus engine, but the drivers would need to be timed and tapped to attach connecting rods.  

It's owned by my non-internet experienced train repair friend "Ed". If someone is interested in this motor, Ed can install new center-rail pickups on it and do full cleaning and service on it.