OK - WHAT IS THE SECRET???

@Buco posted:

For the past two days I have been trying to replace the zinc-pest knuckles in two Lionel "thumb-tack" couplers I have inherited.

I have all the new parts - new knuckles, rivet pins, and hair springs, and everything was going to plan until I had to install that tiny hair spring, the one that keeps the coupler in the open position once it has been activated by the "thumb tack" release.

I understand the small "cranked" leg of the hair spring fits against the inside of the knuckle face, and the spring is then held in place by the rivet pin, but what in the name of the sweet Lord holds that straight section of the spring in place??

Three of these little springs have taken off during the installation process, and gone to that great spring God in the sky, never to be seen of again!!!

What is the trick in getting these small "sporn of Satan" springs into the correct position, and holding them there till you can capture them with the rivet pin???

My patience and the stock of these small springs is running low.

Peter.......Buco Australia.

I hate to laugh at another's expense but you got me here Peter.

And BTW- the springs and other small parts we all lose are with the missing socks from the dryer!

I have a bunch of couplers that need the same repair. I'm thinking it's easier to replace the whole truck than to lose my sanity.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

I hate to laugh at another's expense but you got me here Peter.

And BTW- the springs and other small parts we all lose are with the missing socks from the dryer!

I have a bunch of couplers that need the same repair. I'm thinking it's easier to replace the whole truck than to lose my sanity.

Bob

A friend of mine has asked repeatedly; why do we always work on the edge of the bench or table?

I took a watchmaker's bench from my Father in law, when he no longer used it. I like all the tool drawers going down the one leg. But what is really cool is a pull out under the shelf that is just a frame with a piece of cloth stretched across it. My problem is, sitting on a stool, I can't get my legs under it.
Offered as a suggestion, for a modification to all those work benches out there.

Oof, it's been a while since I've done this, but let me see if I can describe my method.

Take the rivet and start it through the top prong of the coupler.

Take the spring, get it oriented correctly, and place it on the rivet. Push the rivet all the way in through to to the bottom prong.

Move the spring all the way to the top prong.

Take the knuckle, get it oriented, and use it to start pushing in the bent part of the spring and get it gently touching the rivet.

Here's the secret (at least for me) - start to slowly pull the rivet out just enough to allow the knuckle to move in to position. In other words, there should be just enough of the rivet sticking through the top prong to hold the spring. You may have to wiggle the knuckle a little. When I did it, it almost felt like the knuckle snapped into place. Push the rivet all the way in.

Hold everything together until you can get it turned upside down and peen the rivet.

I really hope that makes sense. It was frustrating for me too at first.

Work bench aid for small parts and those of us who work on the edge.  Get a wide apron, thumbtack the bottom end under the edge of the bench, loop the other end around you neck as normal.  Just remember to take you head out before you walk away.

@Zeke posted:

Oof, it's been a while since I've done this, but let me see if I can describe my method.

Take the rivet and start it through the top prong of the coupler.

Take the spring, get it oriented correctly, and place it on the rivet. Push the rivet all the way in through to to the bottom prong.

Move the spring all the way to the top prong.

Take the knuckle, get it oriented, and use it to start pushing in the bent part of the spring and get it gently touching the rivet.

Here's the secret (at least for me) - start to slowly pull the rivet out just enough to allow the knuckle to move in to position. In other words, there should be just enough of the rivet sticking through the top prong to hold the spring. You may have to wiggle the knuckle a little. When I did it, it almost felt like the knuckle snapped into place. Push the rivet all the way in.

Hold everything together until you can get it turned upside down and peen the rivet.

I really hope that makes sense. It was frustrating for me too at first.

That's exactly the technique that I use, couldn't have said it better myself!   Once you've done it a few times, it's actually not that difficult.  I typically use the Brakeman's Riveter for setting the rivet as it's quicker than configuring the press for one lousy coupler!

Nice to know I'm in esteemed company!

One of my all-time favorite repair videos is this one in which an older gentleman with pronounced hand tremors easily repairs a knuckle coupler and demonstrates a great trick to the hair pin/rivet/knuckle mystery--he applies a dab of gear lube to the tip of the rivet when he installs the hair pin which holds it in place when inserting the knuckle.

The real action occurs at around the 22:00 minute mark; the prelude to this is a deep cleaning of the assembly.

His video allowed me to make quick work of just such a repair; astonishingly simple.

PLEASE TAKE NOTE: there are 'bad' and 'good' reproduction knuckle springs. The bad ones use a thicker wire and have 1 extra wind in the coil. This makes it just about impossible to fit the knuckle back in place. The extra wind makes the spring too thick. The solution is you will need to file a small notch in the metal knuckle to compensate for the extra wind in the spring.

Thank you everyone, especially Carl @Pingman for that video link.......a picture is worth a thousand words!!

If that guy with the arthritis fingers and shaking hands can do something that requires the skills of a brain surgeon to fit that demon possessed hair spring, there is hope for me.

I am waiting for the cyclone (Alfred) to completely pass, start cleaning up the mess (tree branches and leaves, lots of leaf debris) in the back yard, then I think the Boss will let me get back into the workshop to have yet another go at testing my patience and sanity.

Watch this space!!

Peter.......Buco Australia.

Also a telescoping magnet tool to find all those parts that fall on the floor and you cant see them anymore.     Get the ones with a bigger tip.  It can find things a few inches away.   

@Buco posted:

I am waiting for the cyclone (Alfred) to completely pass, start cleaning up the mess (tree branches and leaves, lots of leaf debris) in the back yard, then I think the Boss will let me get back into the workshop to have yet another go at testing my patience and sanity.

Just tell her that the debris from the storm will still be there after you get done with the coupler repair.  That's no problem, right?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Just tell her that the debris from the storm will still be there after you get done with the coupler repair.  That's no problem, right?

Only if you want a second storm. 🤫

Post of the week without question!  While I don't rebuild 3 rail couplers, the pesky little spring on a Kadee coupler does the same thing!  One minute you are compressing it to neatly fit into position and the next minute it ends up in orbit!

@NJCJOE posted:

Only if you want a second storm. 🤫

There's always that risk!

Buco,

Put a drop of oil to help hold the spring in place as you slide the rivet pin just til it protrudes through the spring then put the knuckle in place, slide the rivet all the way through. This trick works for me.

I have a telescopic magnet to help find the small parts that disappear on the floor.

Just tell her that the debris from the storm will still be there after you get done with the coupler repair.  That's no problem, right?

Gunrunnerjohn.......you're a braver man than I, Gungar Din to suggest that!!!!  And you've met Sue, so you should know better!!

Happy wife.......happy life!!

I'm still not game to go back into the workshop just yet......timing is everything in life.

Peter.....Buco Australia.

@Buco - Another trick/idea I read several years ago (when dealing with ‘spring’ repairs) which I thought had some merit was - if possible - perform the surgery inside a clear plastic bag.  Perhaps it would reduce the need for a magnet somewhat. 😜

The first thing I always do when working with tiny springs particularly Kadee coupler springs is run a piece of thread through the spring. That makes it easier to find when it flys across the room. Once the repair is done the thread is easy to remove

OK Guys.......I'm back after cleaning up the mess from Tropical Cyclone Alfred!!!

No damage to our house, but lots and lots of large and small branches, and lots and lots of leaves from the large gum trees on the adjoining golf course in our back yard.

Anyway, returned to the workshop yesterday, and had another crack at installing those demon possessed springs. That has to be the most "soul-destroying" thing I have ever done....without exception!!!!

Finally "mastered" the art (black art), by adding a small amount of "Red-N-Tacky" grease to the knuckle hinge point, to hold the spring in place, inserted the rivet, just enough to secure the spring centered over the hole, and very carefully, and I mean VERY CAREFULLY installed the "hand" part of the knuckle in under the spring, and then back into the knuckle, where I could push the rivet down into the bottom hole (QUICKLY).

Halleluiah, and praise the Lord.......the Devil has been conquered!!!

In the below photo you can see the straight end of the "demon spring", and its bent end in the correct position

Here is one of the knuckles fully re-assembled back on the truck, and working as it was originally (psychotically) designed.

All I can add is........NEVER, NEVER, NEVER AGAIN!!!!  I will save up and buy a new, fully assembled coupler if I am ever put in that position again.

Peter.......Buco Australia.

Congrats Peter!

Bob

The important thing is that you were brave enough to venture where many of us dare not go and were rewarded for your efforts! "A small thing but thine own" as Vin Scully used to say.