2-10-10-2 Drivetrain Locking

A friend had this problem with one of the original issue 2-10-10-2's.  On his, one of the valve gear rods on the side was bent and was binding up tight against another rod.  It would bind in forward but not in reverse, since the rods don't hit each other the same way in reverse.  Inspect it carefully and you should be able to find the problem.

Yanno @Bob, I just got done rolling it around by hand on the layout and it does seem like something is wrong with the rods. The front drive wheels seem to pull to one side. I think I'm going to keep looking before I plan to send it back or out for repair. It's difficult to see both sides at once and catch it having the issue.

Got em'

You see it?

How about now?

There it is I'm betting. That bolt is definitely backed out and definitely making contact.

Now I gotta figure out how to tighten it. It couldn't be an easy one to get to haha

Bill, I'm glad you were able to find the issue.  You may be able to tighten it with the right size miniature open end wrench, without having to disassemble much, if anything.  Not sure if it's metric or SAE.

Minature Open end Wrenches

@SteveH posted:

Bill, I'm glad you were able to find the issue.  You may be able to tighten it with the right size miniature open end wrench, without having to disassemble much, if anything.  Not sure if it's metric or SAE.

Minature Open end Wrenches

Now how do we find Bill a little steam mechanic to hold the wrench though!?

5mm open end wrench, …..or, a metric adjustable wrench , …..can not use an inch adjustable…..they won’t open to metric sizes,…🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣..

Pat

Oops, forgot to add, ….you can find tiny wrenches at some auto parts stores, they’re called ignition wrenches, ….Harbor De’ La Freight, that French tool store,  might have them as well, …..Napa used to keep them in the Echlin tool line, ….Carquest had them in Lisle brand ……anyways, should be small money …..

Pat

Couldn't find a small mechanic to fix it unfortunately haha but I ended up using a pair of fine pointed needle nose pliers slowly and carefully. It took almost 20 minutes haha I will DEFINITELY be investing in a small wrench!

I'm just relieved that's all it was.

@BillYo414 posted:

Couldn't find a small mechanic to fix it unfortunately haha but I ended up using a pair of fine pointed needle nose pliers slowly and carefully. It took almost 20 minutes haha I will DEFINITELY be investing in a small wrench!

I'm just relieved that's all it was.

Glad you came up with an immediate remedy, ……lots of ignition wrench sets on those online shopping experiences, …….15-16 bucks gets you a full set of inch & metric,….they are life savers!……they really pay off doing routine preventative maintenance work, …..fastener checks should be part of any maintenance program….

Pat

I was shocked to find it came undone. I'm going to go over the rest the wheels tomorrow and see if I can find anything else. How long is Lionel's warranty? One year?

@BillYo414 posted:

I was shocked to find it came undone. I'm going to go over the rest the wheels tomorrow and see if I can find anything else. How long is Lionel's warranty? One year?

One year to the best of my knowledge, …….last one of those I worked on, there was a plethora of loose fasteners,…..if I were you, I’d call your local stores and see if you can get your hands on at least a 5mm wrench, ……the bolts on our models have no real tinsel strength, grasping a fastener without realizing how much force you’re applying could have disastrous results……even with a wrench, you only make them snug,……I removed a lot of broken fasteners due to folks not using the right tool for the job,…..

Pat  

I do believe it's past a year. I think I'm going to take it apart. I spilled smoke fluid on it on accident. It could use a good cleaning and I'll go over everything while I'm at it. I've seem pictures of the innards but I've always been curious to see for myself.

I have never gone crazy cranking them down because they're so darn small. I'm also bad at getting broken bolts out. I just until they stop turning. Then give them a gentle push.

If that does not fix the problem, it looks to me like the eccentric crank is 90 degrees out. Compare the crank in the picture to the other cranks on the engine and see if they are adjusted differently.  While rotating the wheels by hand see if the crank draws the valve rod up thigh.

Hi if the eccentric bolt was loose, I would suggest lock tight or fingernail polish or a type like that will prevent it from coming loose. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!

Alan

@BillYo414 posted:

I do believe it's past a year. I think I'm going to take it apart. I spilled smoke fluid on it on accident. It could use a good cleaning and I'll go over everything while I'm at it. I've seem pictures of the innards but I've always been curious to see for myself.

I have never gone crazy cranking them down because they're so darn small. I'm also bad at getting broken bolts out. I just until they stop turning. Then give them a gentle push.

Glad it was something simple you were able to fix. A couple years ago I bought a Lion chief steam switcher for my grandson and in the front where the cow catcher would be on a larger loco the screws came out and the piece made contact on the rails and fried it. I sent it to Lionel under warranty and upon return I noticed another screw loose. Further inspection revealed there wasn't a bolt or screw on the loco that was tight. A lessen learned.

@charles mcdaniel I went back down to the layout today and went to move the locomotive. Would ya believe it locked up again!? Another loose bolt, same wheel, opposite side. Lesson learned indeed.

I don't think Loctite is wise here. I'm considering a dab of pipe dope to keep them in if they come out again. Anybody got any opinions? I don't think the bolt needs locked in. It just needs a way to stay snug. Maybe even Teflon tape would do the trick. Just something to squish between the threads.

In this application and if it were mine, I'd apply a tiny drop of Loctite 222 to the end of a pointed toothpick and then apply that to the thread.  I definitely wouldn't use either the blue 243 (large threads) or the red 263 (permanent) as those may make this tiny screw very difficult to remove, if that ever becomes necessary.

Here's the manufacturer's usage guidelines: Choosing the Right Threadlocker

Thanks! Sounds like 222 is exactly what I'm looking for.

We used to use nail polish back in my CRT repair days. We didn't put it on the threads, just at the base of the screw head where it contacted the surface.

last I knew Vision Line had 2 year warranty and everything else was 1. Maybe that was changed (witch would be stupid on a premium model). As far as something on the threads, a thick oil/ light grease may work. Like silicon grease, or if you go the pipe dope route my choice for that would by Nylog White. It’s a silicone base

I like that @rplst8 because I have access to nail polish today. I would have to get anything else.

@zhubl I suppose I should know. Especially since I just placed a Visionline preorder. You think oil/light grease would help hold the bolts in?

@BillYo414 posted:

You think oil/light grease would help hold the bolts in?

Imo , I would avoid any type of a lube where you want something to stay tight.

Especially in this case where if you reduce the friction you risk over torquing and damaging threads. Then you've got bigger problems.

As mentioned already. The tiniest bit of removable lock tite or nail polish should do the trick.

I've seen evidence of thread locker on main rod bolts from the factory when changing tires.

First and foremost. Postpone this repair until you get a set of proper small metric wrenches to do the job. Then you'll have a much better feel for just how tight the bolts really are and you don't risk damaging the head.

This is a hobby. Repairs should be done at a "leisurely " pace too.😉

I was looking at just getting a thin 5mm wrench. Would a set be better? I haven't taken a close enough look to see if there are other small bolts/nuts.

@BillYo414 posted:

I was looking at just getting a thin 5mm wrench. Would a set be better? I haven't taken a close enough look to see if there are other small bolts/nuts.

For as small as the money is, get a set, ….both inch & metric,…..you just never know when the need will be called upon,……..

as for using thread locker, I’d wait till you get that fastener snugged up with a proper tool, then test for a while and then do a fastener check,…..I only glue down habitual offenders only……FWIW, just about every new Lionel I’ve come across nowadays has loose or even missing hardware……..too much thread locker can be another nightmare all to its own……

Pat

@BillYo414 posted:

I was looking at just getting a thin 5mm wrench. Would a set be better? I haven't taken a close enough look to see if there are other small bolts/nuts.

I have standard and metric sets that I use on a variety of repairs, electronic, automotive, appliances and model trains.  I guess it depends on your budget and what types of things you work on besides Lionel O-gauge trains...

@rplst8 posted:

Now how do we find Bill a little steam mechanic to hold the wrench though!?

thats a union job, it takes 3 people

@harmonyards posted:

too much thread locker can be another nightmare all to its own……

Yeah, like when removing aluminum bolts from Pittmans, aye Pat? Man I'm still cussin' myself out for that one!

Sounds good. I'll check into sets. I do electronical work when needed but that seems to mostly be weird screwdrivers.

@rplst8 posted:

Yeah, like when removing aluminum bolts from Pittmans, aye Pat? Man I'm still cussin' myself out for that one!

Next time you get a stuck one, crank up your soldering iron, and stick it in the opposite end where the threads are, …..most large Pittmans use aluminum screws ( as you are painfully aware, but this is for others as well )  beings the screw is aluminum, it’ll heat sink like nobody’s business, and cook off the thread sealer,…the stuff Pittman used ain’t a locking compound, but a dissimilar metals compound, …….problem is, as it ages, it dries up and becomes a locking compound……heating it up loosens it up,….and you then can back the screw out safely, ……warning: filling will be hot, allow to cool, serve & enjoy ……😁

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Next time you get a stuck one, crank up your soldering iron, and stick it in the opposite end where the threads are, …..most large Pittmans use aluminum screws ( as you are painfully aware, but this is for others as well )  beings the screw is aluminum, it’ll heat sink like nobody’s business, and cook off the thread sealer,…the stuff Pittman used ain’t a locking compound, but a dissimilar metals compound, …….problem is, as it ages, it dries up and becomes a locking compound……heating it up loosens it up,….and you then can back the screw out safely, ……warning: filling will be hot, allow to cool, serve & enjoy ……😁

Pat

Also never do this wearing shorts…….and yes I did and have the Scar to prove it…..lmao