2 and 3 Rail...fun?

I am not sure what you are attempting to do.  A transition car usually has the same trucks on both ends - either 2 or 3 rail.  The couplers are different at each end.

I don't see how a car with a 2 rail truck on one end and a 3 rail rail truck on the other end will reliably operate through switches on either track system.  It will work if you are going to operate on a loop of track without switches.  NH Joe

What Joe said. If you want a transition car, leave the 3R wheels in it and put a kadee on one end.  If you swap the wheels on only one end, chances are the car isnt sitting level anymore due to the angle on the 3 rail wheel treads making the diameter different.

Hey Mark,

I'm in the same boat, I'm a 3-rail convert so I am slowly 2-railing all of my 3 rail rolling stock. But for the meantime, I have 2 MTH 50' High Cube boxcars setup as my transition cars. I also don't have a 2-rail locomotive (or track, or transformer lol), so these transition cars will likely stay in service for a while. There is a slight tilt, but I am not too worried about it as the cars are only setup like this temporarily.

What brand/type of track are you using?

I'm using 2-rail, code 148 Atlas and ME track, with Signature Switch turnouts (specifically built for 3-rail equipment, think the frogs are deeper and longer than what they would be in 2-rail, but an email to  Brad at Signature Switch would confirm that).  All my engines and rolling stock are still 3-rail, just running BPRC instead of DCS/TMCC.

I have run a few cars with 2-rail wheels on the layout and they seemed to run well, but had trouble converting some due to differences in the truck designs.  Shoulda got the whole truck/wheels vice just the wheels.

This was cheaper than converting everything to 2-rail and so far have had zero issues that weren't operator induced.

I even bought a ton of 2-rail wheelsets to convert the rolling stock and they're still in the packaging.

While at a standstill, the 2-rail wheels look nice but on the move from 3 feet away I can't see much difference, and those pizza cutter flanges sure keep them on track.  It's just a compromise I'm willing to accept.

@New Haven Joe posted:

1. I am not sure what you are attempting to do.  A transition car usually has the same trucks on both ends - either 2 or 3 rail.  The couplers are different at each end.

2. I don't see how a car with a 2 rail truck on one end and a 3 rail rail truck on the other end will reliably operate through switches on either track system.  It will work if you are going to operate on a loop of track without switches.  NH Joe

1. Just messin' around; trying different things.  😁 I put a different truck on so I could keep the removed, original truck intact.

2. Yes, I simply have big ovals, no turnouts.

Mark in Oregon

@Boilermaker1 posted:

What Joe said. If you want a transition car, leave the 3R wheels in it and put a kadee on one end.  If you swap the wheels on only one end, chances are the car isnt sitting level anymore due to the angle on the 3 rail wheel treads making the diameter different.

I have plenty of nice 2 rail trucks and wanted to try this approach. I did have to shim the one end up just slightly, but only a little. The Kadee coupler is at the correct height (11/16") so it's fine.

Mark in Oregon

@Bob Delbridge posted:

1. What brand/type of track are you using?

2. I have run a few cars with 2-rail wheels on the layout and they seemed to run well, but had trouble converting some due to differences in the truck designs. 

3.  This was cheaper than converting everything to 2-rail and so far have had zero issues that weren't operator induced.

4. While at a standstill, the 2-rail wheels look nice but on the move from 3 feet away I can't see much difference, and those pizza cutter flanges sure keep them on track.  It's just a compromise I'm willing to accept.

1. I have 2 ovals; the bigger is Gargraves, wired for both 3 rail AC and 2 rail DC. The inner loop is the newer Atlas 2 rail. I like the look of it better, but I want to be able to run my few nice Lionel steamers, so I have both types of track. 🙂

2. I'm finding that out for myself...on both points.

3. 👍

4. See #3. "Compromise"; that's what this hobby is all about. 🙂

Thanks for your input.

Mark in Oregon

@bigboy25 posted:

Hey Mark,

I'm in the same boat, I'm a 3-rail convert so I am slowly 2-railing all of my 3 rail rolling stock. But for the meantime, I have 2 MTH 50' High Cube boxcars setup as my transition cars. I also don't have a 2-rail locomotive (or track, or transformer lol), so these transition cars will likely stay in service for a while. There is a slight tilt, but I am not too worried about it as the cars are only setup like this temporarily.

how well do those 2 rail cars track through those switches? They look like the car is about to fall of the tracks? or fairly smooth?

The simplest "T" car I have is a Weaver CNW Express box car -- 2-rail on the front end; 3-rail on the back end. I used it to pull some MTH 3-rail passenger cars with my Scale F7's (let's not get into the prototype issues).

The second simplest is two 5-unit strings of MTH Gunderson Twin-Stack container cars (here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx74q_0m4wY). The hard part was getting the car apart to remove the truck and replace it with an earlier MTH truck so I could remove the hi-rail coupler without a major hassle. One set has a scale coupler on the end of the "A" car and the other set has it on the "B" car. The MTH shims were used since I left the hi-rail wheels in place for now. My plan is at some point to replace the trucks with 2-rail Atlas 70-ton roller bearing trucks on the ends and 100-ton roller bearing trucks in the middle. From what I've been able to glean, the prototypes run on 36" wheels on the ends and 38" wheels on the shared trucks.

The hardest were the Atlas cars because of the coupler boxes. The Santa Fe Grain Train (20 units so far) I run as a unit contains four transition cars as the more recent purchases were 2-rail. In my YouTube video, if you look carefully you'll see where the are. Basically, the "Santa Fe" set of 8 cars has two transition cars and the "Herald Set" has a pair for the 3-rail set of four I bought in the initial release. (the link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?...l5fsSSGnA&t=209s).

Now that I'm settled in at the new home, I'm going to reduce the herd, primarily older MTH rolling stock I don't plan to convert. Some Atlas will be going, too as they're outside of my more current focus. The remaining herd will be 2-railed and outfitted with Kadee couplers. My pure 3-rail locomotives will also be retrofitted with Kadees down the road as well.

Thanks Matt

Good to hear you're settled into the new house. 👍

So in it's simplest form; do your "T" cars typically have just different couplers, or do you also have different trucks on the same car, as in the subject car of this thread?

It seems the "2 different trucks on one car" approach caused a bit more discussion than I would have expected. 🙂

Mark in Oregon

@Bob Delbridge posted:

What brand/type of track are you using?

I'm using 2-rail, code 148 Atlas and ME track, with Signature Switch turnouts (specifically built for 3-rail equipment, think the frogs are deeper and longer than what they would be in 2-rail, but an email to  Brad at Signature Switch would confirm that).  All my engines and rolling stock are still 3-rail, just running BPRC instead of DCS/TMCC.

I have run a few cars with 2-rail wheels on the layout and they seemed to run well, but had trouble converting some due to differences in the truck designs.  Shoulda got the whole truck/wheels vice just the wheels.

This was cheaper than converting everything to 2-rail and so far have had zero issues that weren't operator induced.

I even bought a ton of 2-rail wheelsets to convert the rolling stock and they're still in the packaging.

While at a standstill, the 2-rail wheels look nice but on the move from 3 feet away I can't see much difference, and those pizza cutter flanges sure keep them on track.  It's just a compromise I'm willing to accept.

I too have been converting My engines to Battery Power Radio Control !  My dilemma  hasnt been converting cars to scale wheel sets ,  but the 7  , out of 10 scale locomotives I have  with toy flanges, and no shop or lathe to correct that issue.   I too have chosen the  code 148 rail as it will take the toy rail flanges, with out an issue, and not have the grossly oversized  look of the 3 rail toy track!  Its the Switches /Turnouts, ( that keep me up at night ) the only one I know of  is a closed frog turnout, and with Eral Eshelman gone, it means hand making all of mine.   If the Signature are working  for you I would like to hear more.  PS BPRC is the only way to go!

Dave, The Signature Switch turnouts are fantastic, zero derailments that were not self-induced. But if you're going to run 3-rail wheels on them you need to let Brad Strong at Signature Switch know so he builds them that way.

They're not cheap $$$-wise, but none of them are anymore, but they sure do perform.  Here's a couple of mine:

You can build your own, I had nothing but trouble and headaches from building 5-6 of them.  Just didn't know what I was doing.  I should have bought one of Brad's turnouts and copied how he built it, but I had run our of patience by then.

They mate up fine with Micro-Engineering and Atlas code 148 track. I had him make #5 turnouts for me, wish I would have gotten him to do a few curved turnouts as well.  He can make almost anything you want, or he'll even recommend what to get.

I paced myself when buying them, getting less than 6 at a time.  I currently have 22 on the layout and could use another.

Here's an old diagram of my 13x30 layout, built on Mianne benchwork.  It's changed some but the basic configuration is there:

All of mine use Caboose Industries ground throws, simply a matter of I didn't feel like doing any wiring under the layout plus I like to have hands-on operation.  I may eventually wire the Atlas turntable.  I use Atlas 40.5" and 49.5" curved sections for most of the curved pieces of track and ME flex track for the rest.

If you're running a 10-car train, you could be looking at a lot of $$$ rolling down the track, get the best and protect your investment.

Bob   Good looking layout, and turnout, will be sending an email out monday!   What RC are you using?

@Bob Delbridge posted:

1. ...They mate up fine with Micro-Engineering and Atlas code 148 track.

2. ...All of mine use Caboose Industries ground throws, simply a matter of I didn't feel like doing any wiring under the layout plus I like to have hands-on operation.

3, If you're running a 10-car train, you could be looking at a lot of $$$ rolling down the track, get the best and protect your investment.

1. That's good to know. 👍

2. Good approach; after all, who REALLY likes wiring? 😁

3. Very wise. After all,if you can't run your stuff, what's the point? 😊

Mark in Oregon

@Dave Koehler posted:

Bob   Good looking layout, and turnout, will be sending an email out monday!   What RC are you using?

Dave, I'm using Deltang-based receivers and transmitters, unfortunately, they can no longer get the chips to make them.  Fortunately, I have had zero problems in over 5 years now, ZERO!  I hear they are trying to come up with new designs, but nothing yet.  I have 2 or 3 of the 1st gen BlueRail boards but they really didn't have the amperage needed for O-scale, the 2nd gen models do from what I understand.  The Deltang gear did not have sound.  That doesn't bother me much because there's plenty of sound/noise just from running around the layout.

If I really knew my stuff I'd simply get some off the shelf RC components and make my own. Basically you need a transmitter, receiver, electronic speed controller (could be part of the receiver), battery, on/off switch, charging jack and charger, couple of LEDs for lights, and the necessary wiring.

I just ran a Williams E7, a 3rd Rail E7, and a 3D printed Seaboard 2028 motorcar which uses the chain drive system from a Weaver RS3.  The Williams runs the best of the 3, but the 3rd Rail unit has the best slow speed.  The Weaver chain drive and the belt drive of the 3rd Rail E7 have a whirring sound that the Williams E7 does not, just a quieter engine going around the layout plus it's top speed is slightly faster, the other 2 are kind of slow (but probably closer to prototypical speeds).  I don't run them fast anyway so it doesn't much matter.

Here's my 3D printed (by Zack Pabis) 2028 motorcar pulling 2 Weaver Pullman-Bradley coaches.  It's a tad longer than the E7s:

Brad is real good to deal with and makes a fine product.

@Bob Delbridge posted:

Dave, I'm using Deltang-based receivers and transmitters, unfortunately, they can no longer get the chips to make them.  Fortunately, I have had zero problems in over 5 years now, ZERO!  I hear they are trying to come up with new designs, but nothing yet.  I have 2 or 3 of the 1st gen BlueRail boards but they really didn't have the amperage needed for O-scale, the 2nd gen models do from what I understand.  The Deltang gear did not have sound.  That doesn't bother me much because there's plenty of sound/noise just from running around the layout.

If I really knew my stuff I'd simply get some off the shelf RC components and make my own. Basically you need a transmitter, receiver, electronic speed controller (could be part of the receiver), battery, on/off switch, charging jack and charger, couple of LEDs for lights, and the necessary wiring.

I just ran a Williams E7, a 3rd Rail E7, and a 3D printed Seaboard 2028 motorcar which uses the chain drive system from a Weaver RS3.  The Williams runs the best of the 3, but the 3rd Rail unit has the best slow speed.  The Weaver chain drive and the belt drive of the 3rd Rail E7 have a whirring sound that the Williams E7 does not, just a quieter engine going around the layout plus it's top speed is slightly faster, the other 2 are kind of slow (but probably closer to prototypical speeds).  I don't run them fast anyway so it doesn't much matter.

Here's my 3D printed (by Zack Pabis) 2028 motorcar pulling 2 Weaver Pullman-Bradley coaches.  It's a tad longer than the E7s:

Brad is real good to deal with and makes a fine product.

Nice rail car, in the process  of doing a McKeen car.  I have been playing around  with Piko's G gauge  analog RC units , as well as a Cheap Lionel RC unit.    Twenty five years ago when I was doing this in G I had , Loco Link and Aristo crafts  transmitters and receivers, For sound I use Phoenix