2 Rail track

Scott

this is a great question!   I am just trying to decide myself if I might try hand laying some track.  I am really looking at learning to lay turnouts.  I currently use atlas ones and have for many years.   It seems at least the ones I have take some tweaking to get to work well.  The main problem I have is the frogs touching the rails and shorting out. 

I have looked into turnouts and even buying a #6 jig from fast tracks.  Seems if you have the time it would be much cheaper to hand lay your track.  Can't wait to hear input from others. 

Don

Using list prices for Microengineering rail and flex track here is the quick breakdown:

Code 148 unweathered flex comes out to $170  for 49.5 feet ($3.44 per foot) of O scale track

99 feet of code 148 unweathered rail is $136

1237 Kappler ties (25/foot) is 750/$25 or 49.5 feet of ties for $41

4948 micromark small spikes (4 per tie) is $10.25/1000 for $51

So just ties, spikes and rail to build 49.5 feet of track will cost $228 or $60 per foot even before you get to tie plates, track gauges and tie stain

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On the other hand  scratch built (Fast tracks jigs or plain old scratch built) or parts built (Right-O-Way) turnouts

are significantly lower cost than prefab plastic turnouts.

Right O way turnout parts:

#6 Frog  $12

16 foot points  $11

Guard rails $7.5

Throw bar  $4.5

This equals $35 add $5 rail/ties for a 'simple' turnout without tieplates/rail braces for a total of $40

Compare this to $80-$100 for prefab plastic or custom built turnout.

Right-O'-Way rail is somewhat cheaper.

Code 148 nickel silver is $115.00 for 99'.

Code 148 steel is $85.00 for 99'

750 sugar pine ties are $23.95.

Jay

WOW!!!  I'm glad I pulled up my middle rail and keep the outer 2, even though they're Hi-Rail.  Enough ballast and weathering should hide some of that height.

Well tie plates and rail braces are only for appearances on model track.   I built a totally handload layout in the 70s with 500 feet of track and about 70 turnouts.    No tie plates or braces.   Once the ties are stained and the track ballasted, you really don't notice and you don't need them for strength.    They do look very nice however.

And on spikes, only very ardent clubs do 4 per tie.    the O scale club in Holly, MI used to but no longer does.   My experience on my home layout was to spike about every 6 ties and that was with code 125 rail which is more flexible.    I increased this to 4 on curves and of course there were various exceptions.   

You do need rail joiners.   

As for tools and stain, I still have all my tools, they amortize across many layouts and what not.   Track gauges are the only specialized tools I bought.     One quart of stain will do lots and lots of ties so the price is negliable.

At the time I did it, the cost was about 1/3 for handlaying track and maybe 1/10 for switches.

Wow, Jim. I wish the savings you got were the same today. I bought 2 jigs from Fast Tracks and some of their tools. I did a price comparison and not counting any of the money I spent on the Fast Track tools I came up with about $32 in materials for a turnout. That's approximately a 66% savings as compared to an O Scale Turnout that is on eBay for $99 and it doesn't have ties. There are Atlas switches for as low as $77 on the bay so I guess it varies.   

I don't have the figures in front of me but if I remember correctly handlaying straight and curved track was only about a 10% savings.

For me I do not have a large budget at this time and I will have to build as many as I can to save money. To help with the labor I have 5 or 6 Old Pullman turnouts and as a test I put one of them in the Fast Tracks jig. It was hard to do because I wasn't able to unsolder the guard rail but I got it done and it looks okay. It should work well. I plan to do the same thing to the other Old Pullman switches that I have. In the future if I have more train funds I may buy some more of Brad's switches. I got two of them on the secondary market and they are very nice.

Using pre-made would have to be prohibitively expensive before I would hand lay. I rank the excitement just ahead of watching paint dry. That said, if you enjoy doing it, have at it! I do find the comparison interesting, I bought the bulk of my track supplies quite a while back, and was lucky enough to get a good buy on some "new" Atlas turnouts second hand.

Simon

PS: I would be interested to hear some comments after the decision is made and track is laid.

PRRJIM - I'm of the same school of thought as you.  Spikes every 5-6 ties and Right-O-Way parts.

I was told at a clinic on the topic that there was still a significant cost savings to handlaying switches, but there was no longer much of a cost advantage for standard track.

The two other things I would consider in handlaying all my track would be taking it to a more detailed level, and the ability to make things like curves, diamonds, and turnouts to suit the space available or the desired plan.  

On the club layout in Holly mentioned above, there is an instance where I believe they have a junction between two double track routes.  The point work includes a single slip switch.  Obviously that's not going to happen with Atlas switches.  I'm sure O Scale Turnouts could manage it, but I don't know what the cost might be.

I always recommend to do not miss the tremendous experience that is to build your own turnout. I did and fail (is in use in a yard) the second was better. the frog is the key, no doubt about, is not easy but is fantastic to align all the pieces double check and soldering. 

AG.

Well it all depends on how you go about hand laying, I dont buy sleepers, I just cut up scraps of wood I find around, and as has been mentioned, you dont have to spike every sleeper, I spike every forth sleeper, somtimes every second.  I make the parts for my pionts out of offcuts from the main line, Right of Way point parts look great, but its an added expense so I dont bother. Ive finished a 60' by 20' dog bone and Im working on the second loop. Its not quite as bad as watching pain dry!! ( my wife just had me do some of that). The satisfaction level is great thou, and you can do, ten minutes here and, half hour there. O! and you can make your own track gauges, its not rocket science, but it is time!! In the above picture I even made my own spikes,hows that for madness, or desperation.     cTr...(Choose the Right)

Stephen, That spiking tool set up looks like the Tru-Scale HO spiker we used on their milled road bed from the fifties.  Commercial item?  Spikes or small heads nails like the Tru-Scale nails??

Warren I made this tool to get thouse spikes in a bit faster, it works but not as fast as id like , I would recommend Micro Marts spiking pliers thou.    cTr...(Choose the Right)

Although hand laid track may represent only the estimated 10% savings noted above, it looks a 1000% better then plastic ties and the absolute disturbing uniformity of "factory track".

The following are How To Videos by OGR member N&W Class J on Hand Laying O Scale track video Part 1, Hand Laying O scale track video Part 2, Hand Laying O scale Track video Part 3, Hand Laying O Scale track part 4.

This is the best How to videos on how to do hand laid rail correctly. Not the missing plate and random spiking method.  Why bother putting the Right of Way switch detail and not the plates?  When modeling a locomotive why would you leave off the bell, horn, grab irons, etc. Track is the same way.  Random spiking  and missing plate is just not kosher. The question I have is leaving these details off pleasing to the modelers' eye or in my opinion just plain lazy. Even Atlas track has tie plates and spikes. I was always taught, "do it right or not at all!"

Stephen

mark s posted:

Although hand laid track may represent only the estimated 10% savings noted above, it looks a 1000% better then plastic ties and the absolute disturbing uniformity of "factory track".

This is particularly so if you cut your own ties to eliminate the uniformity of commercial ties and their polished finish.

Also, not only is hand laying the switches economically advantageous, doing this is also totally liberating from being locked into the commercial switches making the decisions as to where your track plan will go - being able to lay custom switches in place lets the track go where you want it go. 

Several years ago, I watched a tv show in which a UP track inspector said that uniform track is a good thing.  He also said that  lack of uniformity was a sign of future problems unless fixed.  So, the uniform look of flex track is a good thing.  Spray painting the track enhances realism without destroying the uniform look of it.  

If you are modeling a poorly maintained branch line, then, by all means, go for the distressed ties, ties of varying length and so on but mainlines should look uniform.

Ed

nw2124 posted:

 

This is the best How to videos on how to do hand laid rail correctly. Not the missing plate and random spiking method.  Why bother putting the Right of Way switch detail and not the plates?  When modeling a locomotive why would you leave off the bell, horn, grab irons, etc. Track is the same way.  Random spiking  and missing plate is just not kosher. The question I have is leaving these details off pleasing to the modelers' eye or in my opinion just plain lazy. Even Atlas track has tie plates and spikes. I was always taught, "do it right or not at all!"

Stephen

 Doesn't make much sense does it! All this yakking about hand laying track, and then short cutting on spikes and detail! Maybe they don't enjoy hand laying as much as they let on!

Simon

I totally agree that handlaid track looks better. No doubt about it but for my railroad I am not going to hand lay straight and curved track because, #1) there isn't much of a savings, #2) Very few people have the time to assemble an entire railroad from scratch--(I have no one to help me I must do all of the layout by myself except for what I buy) compromises must be made so some things will have to be bought so that the railroad will actually near completion in my lifetime, #3) I like the uniformity of flex track or even sectional track. When I look at the main lines near my home I see uniformity. I think Ed Kelly has got it right. #4) Simon is right I am not a big fan of hand laying track. When I built my first turnout with the Fast Track tools which was a disaster (my second one was much better) it took a long time because filing down code 148 rail takes forever. It is so large. The Fast Track system was really designed for HO sized rail. I may buy a belt sander and "cheat" next time so I can cut down on the labor. Another thing is I am a slow methodical worker with a little OCD. If I handlaid track I would have to have 4 spikes per tie (my turnouts will have 4 spikes per tie except where the circuit board ties are) so handlaying a layout of any decent size will likely take me 20 years to complete.

All opinion.

This is what works for me. I'm sure others here can handlay track 5 times faster than me so for them it may the best way to go. I always say there's not a right or wrong way to go about this hobby. Whatever works for you guys is cool with me.

Thank you Stephen for the kind words.  The great thing about handlaying your own track and switches is the ability to incorporate all of the details of the prototype and to not be forced to make a commercially made switch "fit" a particular spot.  Is handlaying for everyone?   No, however it is very rewarding and contrary to popular belief it goes down much faster than you think after a brief learning curve.  The devil is in the details and the realism I can get out of it as well as so many others is staggering.   What can I get out of wood ties as opposed to plastic?  Simple....texture.  I can model a new tie, or a rotted one,  I can get the various stains I'm using to create a bleeding effect you see on a hot summer day as the creosote weeps out of the ties, or as grease that has dropped off a truck or wheelset melts in....or even just a simple grain texture to the ties.  Tie plates, fish plates, throw bars, rail braces the list goes on and that is all before any paint and chalks hit the rails.  Now about uniformity,  well what era are you modeling?  I model the 40's and 50's mostly and after watching hours and hours of film shot back then I can tell you there was plenty of variety in the ties.  You can see they are good but not perfect by any means.  I like that variety.  Todays mainlines have this perfect look to them which for operations is great but for my eye is dull looking and not visually interesting.  Now I have seen some very nicely weathered commercial track and it looks good,  but my eye searches for more....does yours?   That is a question only you can answer.  Remember it has to make you happy.....not me or anyone else......you!  

N&W Class J posted:

What can I get out of wood ties as opposed to plastic?  Simple....texture.  I can model a new tie, or a rotted one,  I can get the various stains I'm using to create a bleeding effect you see on a hot summer day as the creosote weeps out of the ties, or as grease that has dropped off a truck or wheelset melts in....or even just a simple grain texture to the ties.  !  

Exactly.  Even when using commercial ties, they are just too perfect.  When I cut all of my own ties (band saw with 3 dimensional stops), that put the saw marks into the wood and by using several types of wood (whatever scarp was in the shop...), that added a good variation to the coloration of the ties after they were stained. 

No lack of uniformity in dimensions, just a better variety in visual appearance. 

BTW, don't make ties out of oak......

Four spikes per tie would be the exception except in curves.  The tie plates to look nice though but one has to compromise sometimes. 

That is true, like I said it all comes down to the individuals personal preference,  abilities, time, budget ect.  There are many ways to accomplish things. 

I always work alone...no helpers...I prefer it that way as it allows me to make things to my personal satisfaction. Having said that, in my situation I must make practical choices in order to get a railroad built in this lifetime. If I made every facet of layout constructions into a contest model, I'd never get the railroad I planned so carefully. It's simple time management. I install a DCC decoder, I scratch build a structure, I paint a locomotive, I make trees, I build bench work...the task is endless and diverse, but adding in the task of hand laying all the track and switches is a detour I choose not to take...the bigger picture is more important to me. I've included one photo of a small segment of my railroad...the track is ME Flex code 125, the switches except for a few custom made by Signature Switches are hand laid using a Fast Track jig. There is complete scenery, with realistic structures, and visually appealing  track and realistic reliable operation...and were I to have made the choice to hand lay all my track, it is doubtful I'd have anywhere near this level of gain. I could hand lay...I have the skill and knowhow, but time management are to be considered if the bigger picture is to come to a reality. One should evaluate such a significant project wisely...lest you find yourself staring at bare plywood, boxes of unopened trains, and that dusty wrinkled up dream track plan that just may never come to fruition...my two cents.

Bob

I handlaid a short section as a test of techniques from articles in books, mags and on the Net.  Seen plenty of quality work done on flex.  Just takes time and effort.  Experiment to find what works for you.

I don't have the patience or am I able to physically hand lay the track. I have to say now that if I could, I surely would. The pictures posted here of hand laid track is superb. I admire many layouts that have hand laid track. It takes it to another level when done right. It's funny that my eyes prefer real wood.

I have also seen some work done to plastic that makes it much better. I'm guessing that painting it would be as crucial as painting any plastic model to make it more realistic.

I wonder if anyone has rusted the tiny tie plates and painted the ties different on flex?

 The ME tie plates I used in G scale were metal. I liked the look but the nails got loose fast outside on my bridge tracks. I'm not sure that was worth the extra effort. I wish they made G scale spikes with ribs. I just used my ME O scale medium ones. There isn't any plastic tied track for bridges in G that I've seen.

flanger posted:

I always work alone...no helpers...I prefer it that way as it allows me to make things to my personal satisfaction. Having said that, in my situation I must make practical choices in order to get a railroad built in this lifetime. If I made every facet of layout constructions into a contest model, I'd never get the railroad I planned so carefully. It's simple time management.

Bob

 

Bob,

I seriously doubt that anyone here that has seen your work would take exception with what you do or how you do it, as your modeling is first rate. Having seen your work several times on various venues, it just now dawns on me that there are two things that make it really appeal to me. First is how you use color in your scenes. There is a subtle soft palette that bonds the objects together. The second factor is density. By that I mean how much "stuff" is there. The amount of material is just right, neither plywood central or jammed chock full!

You always tease us with a shot or two. It would be interesting to see all of what you have to date and a track plan, even if things are not complete.

Simon

Engineer-Joe posted:

I don't have the patience or am I able to physically hand lay the track.

I have also seen some work done to plastic that makes it much better. I'm guessing that painting it would be as crucial as painting any plastic model to make it more realistic.

I wonder if anyone has rusted the tiny tie plates and painted the ties different on flex?

Joe,

I resemble that remark!

As for painting plastic ties.............definitely! I see no reason why flex can't be dressed up same as is done to hand laid. Remember your ballast will hide a lot of the flex.........and you can always hand lay a small spur of distressed track in tribute to our late friend Ed Reutling!

Simon