It is possible the the additives to make smoke fluid "smell" a certain way chemically breaks down as time goes by especially if there are extreme temp changes and/or sun light.
I would agree. There certainly is aging that has occurred. 
My basement is pretty constant with regards to temp. and humidity levels and the fluid is not exposed to sunlight down there.
Well, that was a good video, 17 minutes well spent. Thanks LOS for taking the time.
I would not take this as gospel, but if the process used to make smoke fluid is at all similar to that used to make E-cigarette liquid, the "discoloration" is actually proper coloring as the various 'flavors' fully dissolve into the base liquid. With a propylene glycol/glycerin base this takes 3-6 weeks, it probably takes longer with the oil bases used in smoke fluid.
Point of all this? the smoke fluid will stain the wicking material a little, but won't cause any problems. It's not bad, and it may not be perceivable in a smoke unit, but the consistency of the scent will be more uniform.
I had a vanilla scent that toward the last 1/4 bottle got that color. It worked fine before I tossed it, but it did stain the wick that color slightly. No big deal.
Would it help the possible evaporation problem if a plug were designed to put in the smokestack of steamers or a cap over the diesel stack during storage? I'm not aware that anyone has done this.
Ed Kazarian
I got a nice email from the Mega Steam folks. Let me ask their permission to post it. I think it covers a lot of this.
As the unit and "funnel" are not air tight, not sure a cap would stop evaporation.
Had old smoke fluid then a friend got me to purchase MTH diesels. Was hesitant about making them smoke, after turning them loose we no longer have problems with old fluid, it doesn't last long enough to get old!
Have a few that became slightly brown, still worked great when we began using it again.
Here is the response with Jeb's permission...
Hi Marty,
Always appreciate your postings on the OGR forum. Just thought I would take the
opportunity of commenting on the evaporization idea. Our special formulas use a lot
of ingredients to accomplish our finished product. The viscosity (thickness) of
smoke fluid has a lot to do with some of them evaporating when exposed to air for
long periods of time...that is a natural process.
If the smoke fluid did not evaporate at some point, it would be very thick and have
properties that would not vaporize and smoke in the manner we all like. When stored
for long periods of time, we have found that our locomotives need to be re-primed
prior to running. That is just the nature of the beast. However, filling them prior
to storage is better than storing them dry. Some oil residue is better than nothing.
We have considered offering different smoke stack caps to help prevent the
evaporization and we are exploring the idea of selling those at some point in the
future. That would help solve that problem.
The discoloration you see in Mega-Steam is a natural reaction to exposure to light.
As the smoke fluid ages the special chemicals begin to break down over time.
Coal-Fired Steam and Big Boy are 2 examples of darker pre-colored smoke fluid. The
amber color is normal since it comes from the special ingredients used to replicate
the smells of live steam. Our normal shelf life is 2-3 years...but it all depends on
several factors...stored away form direct light, away from heat, and in a relatively
cool environment. This varies from geographic locations, temperature, humidity, etc.
Many customer report 5-6 years of shelf life with our product. It all depends.
The first sign of chemical break down is loss of special scenting. When you can no
longer smell a particular scent, it is time to replace. (The smoke fluid is still
good to use for a long time. However, the loss of scenting means it is showing age.)
We suggest a replacement. "Fresh is always better!"
Thanks for listening to these comments. Please stop by at York and say hi!
All the best,
Jeb Kriigel
JT's Mega-SteamI don't think the evaporation or drying up is an issue at all. I'll burn through a full bottle of Mega Steam in a 6 hour run session at the clubs, alternating between 2 or 3 engines. Run 1 for an hour, hour and a half, and then swap them out. The visitors love the sound and smoke, so I keep them full of fluid at all times.
You just need to know that leaving your engine sit around for days, weeks, months will dry that batting out. So every time you take it off the shelf, or out of the box, add some smoke fluid. Use a little common sense here, was it sitting over night, or has it been sitting for 6 months? 
Maybe wicks and fluid are not the best way to meter the making of smoke. I was watching my daughter's automated pellet stove a few weeks ago and pictured something like that as a smoke unit. Like the old pellets fed like... say BB's into a heater regulated electronically to suit the operator.
In regard to the properties of Mega Steam.....I bought a bottle of Nada and left it in car for a couple days this winter. I forgot all about it and it froze solid. I called Jeb and he said that the freeze did not hurt the chemical compound. He advised to let it thaw at room temperature and shake it vigorously once thawed. It works just fine.
Thank you for posting the response from JT's Marty, I appreciate it. Also a big thank you to JT's for taking the time to respond. That certainly makes sense, and mine that have changed color are 3 years old...ish.
My Coal scented smoke fluid has turned quite amber in color but it still has the coal smoke scent. Also i am getting voluminous amounts of smoke from my steamers. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the darking of the fluid. "If it isn't broke don't fix it."
Some people on here are ready to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
I had to send back two new Lionel Legacy Berkshires due to defective main smoke units - whistle smoke worked fine in both engines but main units quit after a few hours of running time. Someone on this forum told me that putting too much fluid in will cause the fan motor not work, but after watching the video it appears these modern Legacy smoke units can handle more fluid. Lionel really needs to weigh in on this, and not next year, NOW!
Why don't you contact Lionel directly? Demanding that they answer you here really isn't a good way to get an answer.
That's exactly why I said in my video... I am not telling you to put 80 drops of fluid in your engine. Lionel is NOT going to tell you that either. 20 drops is the conservative approach to keep people from doing more damage than good. I assumed that I had already over filled my engine twice, that's why I opened it up. Now I know what 20 drops does to these new engines.
If you don't want to add more than 20 drops because your manual says not to... that's fine, don't. I guarantee you that Lionel is NOT going to honor a warranty when you over fill your smoke unit, then tell them that well Laidoffsick did it.
My video for informational.... NOT instructional. Nor was it intended to p*ss people off at Lionel for taking a conservative approach to prevent the repair department from being over loaded with over filled smoke units. A little common sense is helpful here.
I'm not sure what you want Lionel to say here? Do you need someone to tell you to put "X" amount of drops in your smoke unit?
MartyE,
Thanks for contacting MegaSteam directly and getting their permission to post here. This has been one of the best threads in general in a long time on this forum.
Now lets all get back to running our trains with smoke turned on!
A little saturation of about 60 drops, 20 every couple of hours.
I dont think it helped. 
The 844 was always a good smoker but some saturation didn't hurt. Lionel Premium.
Cough cough. But as laidoffsick said, I'm not saying put 60 drops in either but I do think the thought behind a well saturated wick is sound.
naaaah, I don't think 60 drops and saturated batting helped at all. lol That smoke volume will probably only last 1 lap or so.
A little saturation of about 60 drops, 20 every couple of hours.
I dont think it helped. The 844 was always a good smoker but some saturation didn't hurt. Lionel Premium.
Just as an aside, the 844 was/is the most prodigious smoker Lionel's made this side of the VL Big Boy although not in my experience as amazing as shown in Marty's video. I had to replace the smoke unit in mine when the AC regulator failed causing all kinds of heat damage. I used the Lionel replacement pads in the new unit because that's what the original one came with AND I thought that they must have been an improvement on the old material. I duly noted how deep in that batting the original resistor was placed, which was quite different from older Lionel steamers I had at the time, and tried to duplicate that. However once I did all this the smoke performance was good but not as impressive as before.
I can now see that my assumption was wrong about the batting material. I think that this stuff was really devised to make packing or re-packing the unit easier. I'm going to check out my 844 smoke unit and replace the pre-cut pads with strands and soak them thoroughly - then I'll see what difference it makes to this engine giving it the LOS treatment. (Still on the fence as to whether to use Lionel Premium or old reliable MTH Christmas scent or Megasteam.)
P.S. I have noticed that for a while the pre-cut pads have not been available from Lionel parts and the alternative is part number 691SMKP008, which is the fibreglass strands. Hmmmm.
My 844 will smoke circles around my VL Big Boy.
As as you said always did smoke well. The difference I noticed that it smokes well longer. and a little better too. I had to stop last night.
That's incredible!
Like someone said above, this is one of the best threads in some time.
My VL Challenger is a completely different smoker with a soaked wick. Also, I took the shell off a while back and soaked the dynamo unit-smokes like an old lady playing poker now.
Marty did you replace the factory batting with the white batting in the 844?
I bought this off Will Allen about 5 years ago. Never had it opened. Don't know if he did or not. It always smoked well but this is a step up. My Santa Fe 3751 is doing much better as well with a saturated wick. Not 844 well but much better.
I think you proved without a doubt that 20 drops is not enough to saturate A new wick. Folks will have to decide based on the type of engine and smoke unit to do more saturation than 20 to get a better results. And they have to take that risk on their own.
Lionel has told me to follow the instructions. The original post shows that the Cab Forward smoke unit, at least, needs more smoke fluid. Does Lionel use the same unit in all Legacy models? I have the Legacy Berk, Atlantic, and K4s. I find these things a PITA to take apart and reassemble, and the smoke units involve even greater assembly.
I have always added slightly more smoke fluid ` 5 to 10 extra drops due to observations that wicks seem to soak up more, especially as the engines become older. The OP indicates that the amount needed is on the order of 4 times more than instructions state.
Lionel should respond to this thread and add a message to their website accordingly. We all know they have in the past for various issues.
Mike Reagan...
where fore art thou brother???
Best,
Dave
My goodness. It's a wonder LOS ever makes a post to help/provide insight. Many take this post as 'Gospel' and it wasn't his intent.
He's merely giving information-it's your choice to do with it what you want.
Do or Do Not. Your choice. No one is telling you to do anything. I chose to give it a shot. It seem to work. I'm not pouring a whole bottle of fluid down. I am keeping a good track of the amount I'm adding. After the initial saturation I doubt I'd add this much again. Shouldn't really need it.
Marty your video gave me emphysema.
That sure smoked up the room a wee bit.
As for Lionel needing to respond I would disagree. Do they need to respond when someone weathers their engine?...Nope. As LOS stated he simply provided info as to what he did, why and his results...try it if YOU choose to or don't. No biggee either way...
This is really helpful. I always thought that I was flooding the smoke units and so I think I was under filling mine up.
I am going to run trains a bit later and will go more than the 20 drops.
My question is on my vision line hudson and my SP F7AA . I am experiencing the three light flashes indicating a problem. is there ANY chance that if i put enough smoke fluid in the engine that this may fix it? I am doubtful but I thought I would ask.
Second question with the three flashes, is there any self-service work one can do? I am tired of sending engines to and from Lionel.
Third question, can a LHS reset the three flashes or is that a Lionel proprietary item?
thanks,
John
My question is on my vision line hudson and my SP F7AA . I am experiencing the three light flashes indicating a problem. is there ANY chance that if i put enough smoke fluid in the engine that this may fix it? I am doubtful but I thought I would ask.
Second question with the three flashes, is there any self-service work one can do? I am tired of sending engines to and from Lionel.
Third question, can a LHS reset the three flashes or is that a Lionel proprietary item?
I don't want to steer you wrong but I think there was a recent thread where someone reported that Lionel said the three flash code (smoke fan motor problem) was sometimes a false alarm triggered by the fan motor momentarily drawing too much current. Try a soft reset Aux1 0 and see if the engine functions properly afterwards.
More fluid won't help the 3 flashes issue. From what I understand the fault can occur when the driver encounters too much current trying to run the fan. But there is some thinking that the board is too sensitive. At any rate, causing the fan to run can clear up the fault. You can do this by using a careful amount of compressed air from a can. My ES44 had three blinks, but repeated resets and running it, cleared it up. The official fix is to replace the fan motor. A reoccurrence is possible, but using an MTH fan motor is more reliable If it fits.
And here is the thread I was thinking about which also refers to the compressed air method of trying to fix this: https://ogrforum.com/t...17#41271596550900617
The relevant post is on 13 March by "Gene" an records what he was told by Mike R.
Doud and everyone else thanks for posting, very informative will be picking up some extra batting
I bought a legacy N&W SD40-2 December 2012. It refused to smoke, but after flooding it, it finally started to smoke.
Some frustration later, I took it in for warranty as even at 20 drops it wouldnt smoke. Come to find out there was NO wick material at all.
Someone else in my club bought the same engine and it's front truck fell off the instant he pulled it out of the box. It was missing two screws, and the two that were in were cross-threaded and chewed the threads off the screws. He just bought it and we were at the WGHOT show in Hampton Virginia, getting ready to run it. How embarrassing!
Great videos on the smoke units from Laidoffsick and Yates!!
Not to beat the subject to death, but I have 4 new (since December) Lionel steamers and have sent 2 back for failing smoke units.
So, I am still learning when to add and how much - to do or not to do.
I have learned one indicator that tells me I am low on fluid: when the smoke has a tinge of hot plastic odor, I figure fluid is low; I shut down and reload. Maybe this is too late and my batting is burned; but, there you go - too little or too much - the conundrum.
Regarding droppers, it is mentioned that the needle droppers and eye droppers dispense different amounts depending on the size of the droppers - something I suspected - so that adds another level of complexity.
For what it's worth, I just put 20 drops into an old Marx 666 loco, and the little beggar was smoking like a champ when I shut down power 25 minutes later!
Mitch
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