2025 Lionel Visonline Locomotive

Being a big anniversary year (125 years)

I am going to bet a Hudson or maybe a Berkshire.

Those tend to be the two options when we hit a milestone year.

Show me these features on whatever they make:

tri-color class lamps

reciprocating cylinder cock steam- like the GS-4

Popoff steam- both a timer when idle and manual trigger

And I want whistle steam, so yes, 4 smoke effects. Main, whistle, popoff, and cylinder cock- and reciprocating.

Challenge has been put forth.

Hudson - most likely.

Combine all the cool steam effects they've put on various models, and throw in the swinging bell, I'm in for that.

Blowdown steam, dynamo steam, popoff, cylinder steam, whistle steam, and of course the stack smoke.  That should keep them busy for a spell...

@RamblerDon posted:

Being a big anniversary year (125 years)

I am going to bet a Hudson or maybe a Berkshire.

Those tend to be the two options when we hit a milestone year.

I'm thinking the Hudson will probably be the pick if I had to guess. It's been almost 14 years since there's been a J1 Hudson revealed from Lionel, and it's arguably their most iconic engine.

@Vernon Barry posted:

Show me these features on whatever they make:

tri-color class lamps

reciprocating cylinder cock steam- like the GS-4

Popoff steam- both a timer when idle and manual trigger

And I want whistle steam, so yes, 4 smoke effects. Main, whistle, popoff, and cylinder cock- and reciprocating.

Challenge has been put forth.

In all the new engines there are bi-colored class lights with green and white. What other color would you like to have? Red? Maybe a yellowish gold/brown for a more prototypical look?

All I can say is hopefully it’s black… whatever it is…. I don’t think you can screw up the color black too badly….

I'm in for VL GG1, Niagara, or Centipede pair.  I'd take a VL Virginian Berk if they're available (and accurate).

Lionel really hit a home run with these latest VL Big Boys!

I'm thinking that Lionel will remake either the Vision 700E Hudson or the GG1. 2025 will be a remake year. If Lionel makes a Vision Hudson, could we finally see a new C&O streamlined Hudson, an ATSF Blue Goose, an unstreamlined ATSF 3450/3460-ClassHudson, a CP Rail Royal Hudson, a Milwaukee Road Hudson, a C&NW Hudson, or the Commodore Vanderbilt made as Vision items, in addition to the NYC 700E in gray and black versions?

If we get the GG1, I'd love to see a Postwar-inspired #2332 Black GG1 and a Congressional Set-inspired #2340 Tuscan Red GG1, as well as some new roadnumbers for GG1s in PRR, Penn Central, Conrail, Amtrak, and NJ Transit liveries.

The 700e was a nice throwback loco but.... it was missing more than a few rivets😜

They need to use ALL of the K Line J1e tooling on the VL Hudson this time.

Wouldn't they need a new board to incorporate all those features? Dave told me one time that there was a limit to the number of smoke/bell effects owing to the capacity of the board.

@Jerryrails posted:

Wouldn't they need a new board to incorporate all those features? Dave told me one time that there was a limit to the number of smoke/bell effects owing to the capacity of the board.

They already have smoke controllers that can run 2 units. 2 on LCP3, 2 on an external smoke controller over serial data. How do you think they make the current visionlines with 4 work?

I have said it before numerous times but I think they should do a VL Shay with VL Log cars. Just my opinion.

Brad

As I've stated in the original post, more than likely it will be a re-release of an engine that has been made previously, since it will be an odd numbered year.

The scale Berk would be an appropriate choice IMO, likely in the brass-hybrid category. Of specific choice would be a 20th Anniversary Polar Express Berkshire, complete with animated figures, including fireman and engineer Smokey and Steamer struggling to put the cotter pin back in the throttle as the Berk accelerates out of control with advanced VisionLine feature of engine swinging side to side over simulated frozen lake

Seriously, anything Lionel can do to upgrade the U-shaped monolithic boiler casting on the existing scale Berk would be neat and appropriate. Even along the lines of the scale S-3 4-8-4 would be cool

Lionel Vision Line Engines Complete List?

I just updated the big list with all the Big Boys and the new Triplexes.

@Vernon Barry posted:

They already have smoke controllers that can run 2 units. 2 on LCP3, 2 on an external smoke controller over serial data. How do you think they make the current visionlines with 4 work?

Even the 2014 Vision Line Big Boy had four smoke units.

I'd love to see a GG1.  

The 700E Hudson seems like the most likely candidate for a repeat run for Lionel's 125th anniversary.

There is one locomotive Lionel can get away with multiple fantasy paint schemes and at least one premium set to sell at premium prices that simultaneously can pay respect to Lionel history.

Maybe a 5340 model with the tinplate Rail Chief or a 773 model with scale-sized Irvington-style cars?

Well, we have quite a while to speculate as it would be announced either late next year or when the catalog would come out in 2025. I'm not going to speculate as I'm pretty much going to sit down a while until some of the troubles they have been having with quality get fixed, especially painting.

Polar Express scale Berks are starting to go for crazy prices again. That probably precipitates another release. Whether it is a Vision model or regular Legacy model is anybody’s guess, but another release of the scale Berks seems eminent.

I still think it’s very suspicious we haven’t seen even a Legacy scale PRR T1.

One of those with removable magnetic skirting and some smoke effects would be interesting as a Vision Line model.

Or how about a 4-4-2 Class A Hiawatha?

Why not an Allegheny?   The Shay is a great idea too.

Why would they repeat the Vision GG1?  When it came out before there was a lot of 'discussion' as to the validity of calling it a Vision locomotive with such minimal new features - stereo speakers and the sparking catenary. Both are nice but hardly revolutionary.  The basic JLC GG1 was/still is a beautiful model as is.  Personally, I like the sparking feature but you can't put that in the Vision category IMO...

My vote goes to a Vision Berkshire with smoke features or perhaps a Hudson. But for goodness sake Lionel, please put the proper scale sized pilot truck on the locomotive and include the 'toy' set in an envelope!

Here is my 20 yr old K-Line Hudson with the recent Legacy Hudson on the rear track for a visual

@rplst8 posted:

I still think it’s very suspicious we haven’t seen even a Legacy scale PRR T1.

One of those with removable magnetic skirting and some smoke effects would be interesting as a Vision Line model.

We will probably never see another Lionel scale PRR T1, at least not from the original molds from 2000.  This is because of a copy right lawsuit MTH won many years ago; some think the original Lionel molds had to be destroyed.  Now, if they redesigned a new engine that would be another story and I would definitely buy one, especially if it had all the goodies mentioned above.  Maybe even wheel slip.

Not sure what you mean by removable skirting.  The only T1s with skirting were the two prototypes built in 1942 (long nose), and their skirting was removed with other modifications within 2 years for easier maintenance.  MTH's scale PRR T1 is a model of the as-built prototype, and MTH made a gazillion of them.  I don't see Lionel releasing a version of the prototype unless they acquired the molds from MTH.

Lionel's scale T1 from 2000 is a model of the 50 production T1s in its last configuration.  Many as-built production T1s had what is referred to as a porthole pilot, but those pilots were soon modified to the style that is on the Lionel model.  There was never any skirting on the 50 production models.

IF Lionel were to design a new scale PRR T1 for the Vision Line, I would be really happy but only if they did the production model.  I hope they would do the production model in both the porthole and non-porthole versions, although I would only be interested in the non-porthole version for my late 1940s layout.  I also think this engine would look good in many different fantasy schemes.

Yes, I know this post is too long.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Combine all the cool steam effects they've put on various models, and throw in the swinging bell, I'm in for that.

Blowdown steam, dynamo steam, popoff, cylinder steam, whistle steam, and of course the stack smoke.  That should keep them busy for a spell...

And I'm all in with the Gunrunner! Lettus reissue the PRR CC2!

@CAPPilot posted:

We will probably never see another Lionel scale PRR T1, at least not from the original molds from 2000.  This is because of a copy right lawsuit MTH won many years ago; some think the original Lionel molds had to be destroyed.  Now, if they redesigned a new engine that would be another story and I would definitely buy one, especially if it had all the goodies mentioned above.  Maybe even wheel slip.

Not sure what you mean by removable skirting.  The only T1s with skirting were the two prototypes built in 1942 (long nose), and their skirting was removed with other modifications within 2 years for easier maintenance.  MTH's scale PRR T1 is a model of the as-built prototype, and MTH made a gazillion of them.  I don't see Lionel releasing a version of the prototype unless they acquired the molds from MTH.

Lionel's scale T1 from 2000 is a model of the 50 production T1s in its last configuration.  Many as-built production T1s had what is referred to as a porthole pilot, but those pilots were soon modified to the style that is on the Lionel model.  There was never any skirting on the 50 production models.

IF Lionel were to design a new scale PRR T1 for the Vision Line, I would be really happy but only if they did the production model.  I hope they would do the production model in both the porthole and non-porthole versions, although I would only be interested in the non-porthole version for my late 1940s layout.  I also think this engine would look good in many different fantasy schemes.

Yes, I know this post is too long.

I sent Mine to the Gunrunner for da supachuffa and LED headlight. A new PRR T1 would have to incorporate most of what Gunrunners post says sans the bell since the PRR T1 was an air clapper.

@Rtflyer posted:

That gives us the following possible locomotives for 2025 that have only been produced once previously:

1. Pennsylvania Railroad 0-8-8-0 CC2
2. General Electric Hybrid Diesel
3. Genset Switcher
4. New York Central Hudson
5. Pennsylvania Railroad Centipede
6. Pennsylvania Railroad GG1
7. New York Central Niagra
8. Southern Pacific GS 1-6
9. Norfolk and Western Class A

I can't see the Diecast Gevo's coming back. I remember hearing the shell tooling degraded on those, so it's no longer useable. Although, this could be incorrect info. Also seeing as the electronics are completely surrounded in metal, that would mean the bluetooth signal would not get out of the shell. Only way I would see them bring back the diecast Gevo's would be making some part of the shell plastic and placing the bluetooth module in that area. Simplist relocation area for the bluetooth module, would be the rear radiator area. As they would need to slightly retool the plastic radiator cover to house the spinning fans mechanism, by adding 2 holes.

Vision Genset probably won't happen either. As they released the plastic shell variant a couple of years ago, since the diecast shell would not allow the bluetooth signals to escape. They would need to have some part of the shell be made from plastic to allow for this. Maybe the short hood, where the 9V battery used to go. Making it Vision Line would also mean having to change it back to 1 motor and 1 driven truck. This could deter people from being the vision line model, since the plastic shell variant has 2 motors and has better pulling power. It also seems like the 2 motor Gensets run better, compared to the 1 motor variations.

Seeing the CC2 come back would be awesome, as it's what started Vision Line. But everything else on the list would be awesome too, especially a diecast Gevo making a return. I would be fine with the compromise of a section being made from plastic on the diecast Gevo's.

I'm with Ron (CAPPilot) about the PRR T1 being the best candidate. Lionel supposedly did a new tooling of the A Class which was also one the MTH 'Lawsuit' models and it is very nice. Considering the PRR T1 Trust  is coming along nicely with their full scale reproduction T1 5550, a Vision model of that one might be a good marketing play. It certainly is a unique and handsome locomotive with a good fan base in all scales. Lionel could make the corrections needed on the tender to satisfy the purists too!

info@t1trust.org

@c.sam posted:

Why would they repeat the Vision GG1?  When it came out before there was a lot of 'discussion' as to the validity of calling it a Vision locomotive with such minimal new features - stereo speakers and the sparking catenary. Both are nice but hardly revolutionary.  The basic JLC GG1 was/still is a beautiful model as is.  Personally, I like the sparking feature but you can't put that in the Vision category IMO...

I thought part of what made the Vision Line GG1 special was that they did a 4800 "Old Rivets" version. IMHO, that was the only one really worth buying.

My vote goes to a Vision Berkshire with smoke features or perhaps a Hudson. But for goodness sake Lionel, please put the proper scale sized pilot truck on the locomotive and include the 'toy' set in an envelope!

Looking at real photographs of the J-1e I'd say the pilot truck wheels on the Vision Line 700E are pretty close to the correct diameter.

Well it being an odd year we'll most likely see a remake and I vote for the Hudson.

@CAPPilot posted:

We will probably never see another Lionel scale PRR T1, at least not from the original molds from 2000.  This is because of a copy right lawsuit MTH won many years ago; some think the original Lionel molds had to be destroyed.  Now, if they redesigned a new engine that would be another story and I would definitely buy one, especially if it had all the goodies mentioned above.  Maybe even wheel slip.

I didn't realize that engine was part of the lawsuit. Is there a list of those somewhere? I find it's inclusion surprising since MTH never did anything other than the long-nosed Baldwin prototypes.

Not sure what you mean by removable skirting.  The only T1s with skirting were the two prototypes built in 1942 (long nose), and their skirting was removed with other modifications within 2 years for easier maintenance.  MTH's scale PRR T1 is a model of the as-built prototype, and MTH made a gazillion of them.  I don't see Lionel releasing a version of the prototype unless they acquired the molds from MTH.

Lionel's scale T1 from 2000 is a model of the 50 production T1s in its last configuration.  Many as-built production T1s had what is referred to as a porthole pilot, but those pilots were soon modified to the style that is on the Lionel model.  There was never any skirting on the 50 production models.

I didn't realize that there was no other skirting on the production T1s. A swappable porthole pilot would be neat - though probably difficult to make such that it was easily removed.

IF Lionel were to design a new scale PRR T1 for the Vision Line, I would be really happy but only if they did the production model.  I hope they would do the production model in both the porthole and non-porthole versions, although I would only be interested in the non-porthole version for my late 1940s layout.  I also think this engine would look good in many different fantasy schemes.

I have the porthole version that 3rd Rail did in brass. I might eventually upgrade it to Legacy at some point, but I need to debug the mechanicals on it first. It likes to derail on certain turnouts and is way less forgiving than my MTH and Lionel versions of the T1.

Yes, I know this post is too long.

I found it educational.

@Rtflyer posted:

Here is a list that I compiled of every Lionel Visonline Locomotive that has been released/revealed:

* - Denotes Multiple Production Runs

2009

1. Pennsylvania Railroad 0-8-8-0 CC2
2. General Electric Hybrid Diesel

2010

1. Santa Fe 2-10-10-2 *
2. Genset Switcher
3. New York Central Hudson

2011

1. Union Pacific Challenger *
2. Pennsylvania Railroad Centipede

2014

1. Union Pacific Big Boy *

2016

1. Pennsylvania Railroad GG1

2018

1. New York Central Niagra

2019

1. Union Pacific Challenger *

2020

1. Southern Pacific GS-1 Brass Hybrid
2. Southern Pacific GS-2
3. Southern Pacific GS-3
4. Southern Pacific GS-4
5. Southern Pacific GS-5
6. Southern Pacific GS-6

2021

1. Santa Fe 2-10-10-2 *

2022

1. Norfolk and Western Class A

2023

1. Union Pacific Big Boy *

2024

1. Erie Triplex

This got me thinking, what will the 2025 Visonline locomotive be? We already know what's coming in 2024. And I believe it has been said by Lionel that the odd numbered years will bring a repeat offering, as has been the case recently.

That gives us the following possible locomotives for 2025 that have only been produced once previously:

1. Pennsylvania Railroad 0-8-8-0 CC2
2. General Electric Hybrid Diesel
3. Genset Switcher
4. New York Central Hudson
5. Pennsylvania Railroad Centipede
6. Pennsylvania Railroad GG1
7. New York Central Niagra
8. Southern Pacific GS 1-6
9. Norfolk and Western Class A

Here’s a thought I’ve spoken to multiple owners of stores, these are stores that sell Lionel trains. newsflash guys. The big sellers are the diesel engines. Kids today want to see what they see in real railroading. That’s why diesel engines sell so well the New York City subway set sold well and anything Amtrak sells well. People want to see what they see today in real life.yes I think an anniversary Hudson would be great but at the end of the day between the manufactures, they have sold more Hudsons than ever ran in real life.

I would like to see, scale Metroliner cars. How about some scale subway cars like  R-46 and IRT cars. But if they’re going to do it, let’s have the doors open just like the originals anybody can make a box car with lights and then charge a lot of money. How about some more diesel engines with all the bells and whistles this time. Instead of just putting smoke units in, let’s have it just like the real thing a puff of smoke on takeoff, and then the smoke turns off.

@ThatGuy posted:

Here’s a thought I’ve spoken to multiple owners of stores, these are stores that sell Lionel trains. newsflash guys. The big sellers are the diesel engines. Kids today want to see what they see in real railroading.

While I tend to agree, kids are not the target audience for Vision Line engines.  That being said I wouldn't mind a diesel entry.

@CAPPilot

Ron, I think that there will be a PRR T1 because remember, even though Lionel's was the MTH Tooling, they may have purchased that from them this time, unless that was something MTH wasn't willing to part with.

We have seen a number of former(well, not really former) MTH toolings Lionel has done runs on, so some questions arise on things we're not sure is MTH Toolings like the Dreyfuss. Regardless of whether Lionel has or hasn't purchased the tooling for the T1 from MTH, I would definitely believe that this would be something in the works for them. With all the press about the T1 Project that keeps coming forward, it has to be something that Lionel would want to capitalize on.

@MartyE posted:

While I tend to agree, kids are not the target audience for Vision Line engines.  That being said I wouldn't mind a diesel entry.

Very true, but the “target audience “ is getting smaller by the day……..