3 rail track

Provocative title; so are U okay with 3 rails?

I'm a Lionel FasTrack fan.

It's not exceptionally realistic, yet not the worst.

It is very noisy, unless put a sound deadening substance under the track, e.g., short carpet.

It is extremely functional, especially the switches which can be had in Command Control.

I wouldn't call it economical, but what is in O-gauge?

Take a look at Atlas O's 21st Century track system. In MY opinion it is the best looking 3 Rail O track on the market. It has an EXCELLENT selection of curves, straights and switches, one of the most comprehensive in the hobby.

Doug

Not qualified to give advice, having said that, I have a layout with 7 loops all Fastrack. No, it is not cheap nor from the pictures on this forum realistic but Fastrack is good, easy to use, comes in several sizes.

Fastrack is Brent proof, I have experienced zero problems, I do try too keep it clean.

I am not a rivet counter , just like to see trains go round and round.

Have fun with your Railroad

Brent

Gargraves and Ross......best looking, cheaper than many, works great.

I chose Atlas for my layout. If I had to do it all over again, I would pick a Ross/Gargraves combo. The availability of Atlas track, especially switches, has been such a pain in over the past few years.

Stay away from MTH RealTrax. It is expensive, there are alignment issues with the rails section to section, and the switches are terrible. The worst mistake I made up front was using MTH RealTrax.

I too went through exactly the same transition, HO to O, a couple years back. My mistakes were the wrong track, and not a big enough layout. I have lots of O-31 curves and it limits your engine and rolling stock choices, and the fast curves are not very realistic. Spend a maximum amount of time on the planning of the track and the layout. Laying track too soon can put you in a corner, unable to make it better latter.

If I did it again (very unlikely) I'd pick Ross/Gargraves. But the small amount of Atlas track I use this time made Atlas track a choice to consider too. The Atlas switches are not that great. The Atals track sections I used to smooth the train flow were long sections of Atlas Flex track and it worked great. Some of these track system choices requires ballasting, one of my least favorite tasks.

LDBennett

My vote is for Gargraves and Ross combination.

LDBennett posted:

Stay away from MTH RealTrax. It is expensive, there are alignment issues with the rails section to section, and the switches are terrible.

LDB

Do you have the hollow rail version? Most of mine are the earlier solid rail version. I haven't had any alignment problems with those, but yes with the hollow ones. I didn't have any trouble with my switches, but mine are all O-72.

I just removed all the Real Trax from my layout and will soon put down Atlas O.

Keith:

My RealTrax is the newest version as it is only about two years old and is indeed hollow rails. I got it all workable. It was an eye opener to find MTH sold such shoddy track. But as time went along and my 99% MTH rolling stock increased, I came to realize that some MTH products seem to have a problem or two right out of the box new. What a shame to pay all that money and have to fix some new addition to get it to work properly. It has not yet been anything hard to fix by me. The switches were the worst. I had to tear all seven of them open and adjust the travel of the mechanism.

After several years I have gotten the layout to work reliably but not without work on my part to fix many of MTH's quality problems. I'm into MTH too far to change and I do like their DCS TIU and AIU and the control it offers. Lionel now offers an equivalent with Legacy, I believe. I realize I can use Lionel on my layout if I add some of their digital control modules but I just stuck with MTH because Lionel's stuff is made in China too.

Because my layout is so small at 7x9 it is basically finished with no physical room to expand. So my focus for the last year was populating the layout with structures. I arrive this year at "full" with an addition of 8 Banta craftsman laser cut structure kits I built. I have now moved to building rolling stock from Yee Old Huff n Puff and LeBelle. The Banta kits were a joy to build but the LeBelle passenger kit was very tough. Some of the YOHnP kits suffer from poor instructions but come out OK when I work around  the poor instructions. What's after when  the rolling stocks count exceeds my needs and capacity to store them off the layout? I really don't know? I'll not re-do the layout as my physical limits start to increase as I pass though my 70's. Maybe I'll be satisfied just running trains????

LDBennett

Is there a big difference between a hollow rail (gargraves) and solid rail (atlas) also anybody use scaletrax by mth, it looks really nice

I am using mainly Gargraves track and Ross switches now. I also use some tubular track with adapter pins to Gargraves track.

I have tried Fastrack about 6 years ago and got rid of it very fast! Nothing but trouble for me. Very difficult to keep clean and electrical connections between track sections were extremely poor. The price of Fastrack, even for a small one & a half inch section, is high and you must follow a track plan to the letter with Fastrack, NO free lancing of Fastrack like with tubular track.

Lee Fritz

Gargraves  rail is still shaped like traditional tubular, and the ties are grossly oversized, but is still a vast improvement over the traditional widely spaced metal tie tubular track. Using Gargraves track with RCS (Ross Custom Switches) switches, is a very common combination. Gargraves track is more affordable than RCS's track, and other than the tie color being a bit different IIRC, they work well together. RCS does have an even more comprehensive selection of switches than Atlas O.

  Atlas O track has more scale sized ties and rail profile than Gargraves. For awhile Atlas O was hard to find some pieces, particularly some switches. I have heard that production has been better, and that availability is much better now, but I have not tried to buy any in a Long time, and I found what I needed without trouble when I did buy it, but that was before the shortages.

Again, TO ME, Atlas O, is the BEST LOOKING track on the market, but I Like FORD trucks, others may like Gargraves and Chevies.

There are many who like/prefer MTH's scale Trax, but it's selection is much more limited, and it's availability, as far as the last I have heard is almost impossible to find, and MTH has been unresponsive as what Scale Trax future is.

Doug

If you're just starting, why 3-rail?

Why not 2-rail?

I personally regret rushing into 3-rail. But, once you start buying . . . you're stuck.

Terry Danks posted:

If you're just starting, why 3-rail?

Why not 2-rail?

I personally regret rushing into 3-rail. But, once you start buying . . . you're stuck.

Why not 2 rail O scale? I know that 2 rail O scale uses DC power and that some of the prices for 2 rail items can be higher then 3 rail. Also there are more people into 3 rail then 2 rail in O scale, so 2 rail is harder to sell in the used market if you want to sell an item.

Lee Fritz

What TERRY DANKS said

challenger3980 posted:

Again, TO ME, Atlas O, is the BEST LOOKING track on the market, but I Like FORD trucks, others may like Gargraves and Chevies.

Doug

What about those of us Gargraves and Ford pick-up guys!!!

Atlas track does look good but when I bought all my track it was a point Atlas was hard to get.

Terry Danks posted:

If you're just starting, why 3-rail?

Why not 2-rail?

I personally regret rushing into 3-rail. But, once you start buying . . . you're stuck.

No More "STUCK" than either he or I was "STUCK" with HO, when we changed, and I was an AVID HO modeler with more than 50 DCC/Sound locomotives and hundreds of freight and passenger cars. Granted, I was/am a member of a large club, and didn't have a home layout.

In November of 2005, I went to my LTS, Whistle Stop Trains, in Portland, OR and told Charlie the owner, You know that I have been an HO guy for over 35 years, but I need some "Lionel" for "Under the Tree". It HAS to be Steam, GOTTA be Union Pacific, half a dozen freight cars loop of track and transformer. There wasn't an RTR set that fit my wants/needs so we put together a "Set" from loose pieces.

 I took that "Set" home and set it up on the floor, and was absolutely HOOKED on the BIGGER trains (I already had/have some Gauge 1). The very next weekend, I was back at Whistle Stop and took home the MTH Railking F3 passenger set, in Armour Yellow and Harbor Mist Grey OF Course. Since that time I haven't looked back, and haven't bought another piece of HO equipment. I am still an "Absentee Member" of the club, with reduced dues, so I still support the club, in a small way, but I haven't been there in over a year, and my visits get further and further between. HO may be more correct to scale, but to ME, it just doesn't have the heft and "Presence" that O Gauge does.

 As far as "regretting" 3 Rail instead of 2 rail, I doubt that will ever happen for me. 3Rail is far from "Cheap" but 2 Rail O is even more expensive. 3 Rail O, doesn't have any where near the "Off the Shelf" selection that HO and N scales have, but it still has a VASTLY BETTER selection available than 2 Rail O does. An IDENTICAL track plan in 3 Rail, does take much more room, than the same track plan in HO, but no where near the space it would take in 2 Rail O, to be able to run the same equipment, 2 Rail typically takes the same RADIUS curves, as DIAMETER curves in 3 rail to run the same type of equipment.

  Model Railroading is as much a Hobby of Balances and compromises, as it is about trains. I have heard SO MANY times "I could NEVER accept that THIRD RAIL", yet the same modeler goes on to describe how he is modeling a 100+ mile sub-division in HO on a 5x10 layout, and how his Big Boy can handle 22" or even 18" radius curves( a Big Boy would require a 40" radius in HO), with a Gleam in his eyes.

  We each make our own choices on our Balances and Compromises, to ME, that third rail is no more offensive than a 100 mile sub-division on a 5x10 layout. On a well scenicked layout the third rail is not at all noticeable to me, and on a painted plywood table, with Plasticville buildings, it is a time capsule back to the 50's-60's.

It is a shame that you "REGRET" 3 Rail, I would suggest that you sell or box your 3 rail, and build the 2 rail layout and collection that you evidently would prefer. For me, that little Hudson Jr. with Union Pacific on it's tender(UP NEVER had any Hudsons)will always be a Special piece for me, even though I now also have scale locomotives like a Big Boy, H7, AC-9, FEF-3's and GS4. One of the few regrets that I have had since going 3 rail is buying a PW 736, never ran right, it just never gave me the warm fuzzies, that some get from Post War equipment, I eventually sold it and moved on. Many Love the Post War trains, just not for ME.

  I can't answer for the OP, but for ME, I can think of MANY reasons beyond even those already mentioned on "WHY 3 RAIL". So I Hope for You, that you do someday find the Happiness in your trains that you should, I have, and I am Perfectly HAPPY with 3 Rails.

Trains are supposed to be FUN,

Doug

AMCDave posted:

challenger3980 posted:

Again, TO ME, Atlas O, is the BEST LOOKING track on the market, but I Like FORD trucks, others may like Gargraves and Chevies.

Doug

What about those of us Gargraves and Ford pick-up guys!!!

Atlas track does look good but when I bought all my track it was a point Atlas was hard to get.

Well, I'll have to look into it, but I'm sure there is a rule somewhere that if you drive a FORD pick up You HAVE to prefer Atlas O track

But I SUPPOSE, I could give you a Pass on this, after all, if you drive a FORD truck you can't be more than HALF BAD, Right

When I bought my Atlas O, availability wasn't the problem that it was for awhile, and I sure wouldn't criticize someone for liking/buying Gargraves/Ross, it wouldn't be MY choice, but there are a LOT of people that do like it, and it does have an Excellent reputation.

Doug

IMO you should go to your local train store, if you have one, and look at all their track and see it for yourself. Then decide what you like the best and what fits your budget requirements. It is my opinion that all the track systems we have today are good ones, all have quirks, but all can be made to work reliably with proper installation. So go with what YOU like. 

I started out wanting to use Fastrack, but after looking at it I found the noise to be more than I liked. After that I regrouped and spent quite a bit of time researching all the different track systems. I narrowed it down to solid rail track, Scaletrax and Atlas. Atlas had a much better selection of curves and switches and I really liked the looks of it better. I ended up going with Atlas track and switches and I have been very happy with it. Atlas has their supply problems resolved and there should be plenty of it available now. I don't have a Ford Pickup, but I do drive a Ford Freestyle. 

I reiterate to the OP.

Now is the time to decide 2 vs 3 rails! In all likelihood you will only be at this particular crossroad once.

I found far more actually available in O-gauge 2 rail than I ever imagined. In fact, every single one of the 15 or so engines I now have was also available in 2 rail. Most of the rolling stock as well . . . although, no,  not all.

 So, think this through thoroughly, better than I did.

If you want realism . . . go 2 rail.

If you want nostalgia, the trains of your boyhood, perhaps, that's another matter.

For every "scale 3-railer," there's a "two-rail wannabe." Some of us accept it as it is. Others are in self-denial and rationalize their situation into making the the third rail a positive thing that does everything from making reversing loops easy to curing cancer.

And some of us just choose to Enjoy our trains without regret. Yes THINK about what YOU want from the Hobby, but NOTHING is permanent, and people change interests and scales, even HOBBIES all the time.

 You most likely wont be able to sell any equipment for what you paid for it, but you can always change interests, I have done it, and so have many others.

One should do what gives them the most enjoyment, whether that involves 2 rails, 3 rails or NO rails.

Doug

I started with Atlas-O. I went nuts as I hit the market just as Atlas-O track was "unobtanium." I then went to Ross in fustration. My swtches are all Ross. My Ross track mates to my satisfaction with my original Atlas. I now have more Ross than Atlas.

Can't really say I find one "better" than the other in any way really. They are certainly different. But both are equally acceptable to me and I can't express a preference one way or the other. Ross is US-made and I like that. Calling 'em up and ordering directly from Ross has been very satisfactory. I can't verify if Atlas is completely over their supply difficulties for their entire track line or not.

While I agree it's always best to see track for yourself, many hobby shops, where there are some, don't carry every brand, so you're still left wondering. My LHS only carries RealTrax and Atlas. As an MTH dealer they don't even carry ScaleTrax because the wife doesn't like it. They blame lack of interest, but if you don't carry something, there's not going to be much interest.

Anyway, I faced the same dilemma and spent a lot of time posting a question much like yours and got just as many opinions. My solution was to get a piece of the tracks I was interested in. I had to stop off in the boondocks south of Dallas during one trip last year to find someone with ScaleTrax in stock, but I managed to get some FlexTrack and he through in a piece of Atlas. By then I knew what each looked like, I just wanted to handle some flex to see for myself how it bent, etc.

Like RTR12, I wanted solid rail. So I was all set to order Atlas because ScaleTrax didn't have curves between O31/O54 and I was worried about availability. Then I visited a layout that features GarGraves. His layout was every bit as quiet as the Atlas layout in the Scottsdale Railroad Park, so I've decided to use GarGraves. During my travels the past 3 years, I was able to visit 2 layouts done with ScaleTrax, several with Atlas, 1 with FasTrack and 1 with RealTrax. In fact, the one in Texas had every brand track available, including FasTrack and RealTrax, somewhere on the layout and I didn't even really notice the difference while watching the trains run. Every layout I've visited looked great in spite of the different track. IMHO, ScaleTrax is the most realistic looking and it did look really nice. I think Atlas is next followed by GarGraves due to the different ties. However, none of them are perfect and I'm not a purist, so GarGraves won out. It's Made in America, is readily available and is cheaper.

Like RTR12 also said, all the track sold today will look nice and run well if properly laid and cared for. Some will be noisier than others, so just looking at track in a store won't be of much help with that. Since you're in PA, I would try my best to visit some layouts with different brands of track. I initially dismissed GarGraves before I saw it in action even though I had seen it in stores, etc. Good luck!

I was a 2 railer for 40 years.  I couldn't get past the look of 3 rail track.  Now you couldn't get me back to 2 rail track.  Electrical advantages aplenty with 3rd rail.  Also, if you get the phantom, darkened center rail, and weather your track, people won't notice.  People see what they expect to see.  I've had many people come down here and spend a good deal of time viewing our layout.  After, they are away from it, I ask them: "How many rails?"  I get a crazy look for them because they know a railroad has 2 rails.  They don't notice.  Amazing!

OK, I love 3-rail, but I think we need to consider what the original poster wants, based on his question.

He asked, as an HO veteran, what is the most realistic track out there in O gauge. It sounds to me that appearance is important and that he is more apt to consider precision scale.

So why not let him decide for himself if he prefers 2-rail over 3-rail? Yes, 2-rail will be more expensive, but electrically will have the same limitations that he experienced in HO. As long as he makes himself aware of the drawbacks, it might be the choice he would make.

But I would also suggest my approach, from a similar experience. I started out first in HO (childhood) and then switched to N scale, where exactness in realism was what I desired. I'm still occasionally buying some N scale stuff and have a layout.

But I'm primarily into O gauge now. When I switched my emphasis to 3-rail O, I liberated myself from the mindset of exactness and true scale above all else. My home layout is Lionel O-27 track, where I run a nice variety of traditional-sized stuff and some small scale-sized switchers that also run fine on O-27.

I also have scale locomotives and freight cars that I run on a 3-rail O club layout, so I do also crave certain accurately scaled O models, as well, despite the fact that their 3-rail products.

So, to the OP, I say this: If realism is important, consider 2-rail O, keeping in mind the space it will require and the associated costs. The track will naturally be more realistic.

But also consider freeing yourself from a preoccupation with realism and welcome the 3-rail world. The GarGraves and Ross combo is a great option, but Ross switches aren't at all inexpensive. If you are looking at a less costly alternative, consider Atlas, which probably will closely approximate your HO experience.

Me? I'm planning a future home layout with wider curves (so I can run my scale stuff at home, too) using Lionel FasTrack. It's a great option if you don't like installing cork roadbed and it looks great. It's shortcomings can easily be rectified.

Somebody was advocating converting, starting, in two rail..what track is recommended? Are they recommending strip rail, cut and dyed ties, and pushing in scale spikes inch by inch with a sharp nosed pliers? For a long time in HO unrealistic gold colored brass rail stunk, and they finally went to nickel silver. Tubular track has persisted longer...with all the expensive engines and cars to run on it, l think much track available is a poorly designed afterthought. None available suits me. Above quandary has been repeated on here again and again.

hello from france , like you , im back to train 2 years back , and would like to begin in o scale , ho was when i was more young , i choose tubular track because here we dont have a lot of issues ,unknowing , mth , atlas and else more better than tubular , moreover nobody here make a new product ,then i bought in shop like antiques or pawn what i find  , used traks ,to finally make double round a the top of my home ,one advice , before beginning , have a good knowledge of what exist , quality an defect , possibilities and details ,to do not have regret , i drive on tubular , old ones whith french and us rolling stock , its drive not so bad ,its not realistic , i clean them every week and for end , i get troubleshootings of electricity as the metal rust whith the time , get your time , i saw prices on  ebay about us material ,many things are correct , just be patient

Atlas O scale two-rail track: http://www.atlaso.com/o2railnstrack.htm

When it comes to Atlas, the choice between 2-rail and 3-rail isn't as black-and-white as it used to be.  A few years back, before we moved to our current house, I was able to build a rather nice floor layout with Atlas 2-rail sectional track.  I had three locomotives and a bunch of rolling stock (I can't count it now, because it's all packed away).  Everything ran well, and I enjoyed it.

After we moved, I went without trains for a couple of years, when I decided to put up a loop of 3-rail track "for Christmas."  It grew into a FasTrack 3-rail floor layout in the basement, which I've been running ever since.

It's a tossup as to which layout I enjoy/enjoyed more; Atlas sectional 2-rail track pretty well negated the simplicity factor for me.  What keeps me in the 3-rail camp (at least for now) is the wider and easier availability of locomotives and rolling stock.

Gargrave Track with Ross switches. Looks, dependability and price what more can a kid wont?

Terry Danks posted:

I reiterate to the OP.

Now is the time to decide 2 vs 3 rails! In all likelihood you will only be at this particular crossroad once.

I found far more actually available in O-gauge 2 rail than I ever imagined. In fact, every single one of the 15 or so engines I now have was also available in 2 rail. Most of the rolling stock as well . . . although, no,  not all.

 So, think this through thoroughly, better than I did.

If you want realism . . . go 2 rail.

If you want nostalgia, the trains of your boyhood, perhaps, that's another matter.

For every "scale 3-railer," there's a "two-rail wannabe." Some of us accept it as it is. Others are in self-denial and rationalize their situation into making the the third rail a positive thing that does everything from making reversing loops easy to curing cancer.

 

As a somewhat of a former 3 railer who went to the dark side of 2 rail I disagree with this. While it is true that if a person has a lot invested in 3 rail they will most likely not want to make the switch over to 2 rail (and I don't blame them) but it has been done by folks like me who did not have have a huge investment in 3 rail. If the OP is unhappy with 3 rail in a year or two and hasn't spent a boat load of money on 3 rail he can still make the change then. The OP doesn't have to decide right this minute between 3 rail or 2 rail. I do think it is most likely that the OP was asking about 3 rail track and not 2 rail track but I am glad that Terry mentioned considering 2 rail because when I got back into the hobby I didn't even know that such a thing existed. I was in the hobby about 4 years before I found out about 2 rail O. It took me a year to decide if I wanted to switch to 2 rail and when I did make the switch I sold what I didn't want to keep and converted what I did want to keep. My Lionel postwar stuff stayed as it is and maybe I will make a small postwar layout someday to run that stuff. That's why I say "somewhat" of a former 3 railer. My reason for converting was solely that I couldn't stand the look of 3 rail track. I know some of you guys love it but to each his own. I will also use what's left of my 3 rail collection to run at friends houses. At this point in time I spend more time running 3 rail trains on my temporary layout and at my friends house than I spend running my 2 rail stuff but my goal is a 2 rail layout in the future.

There are pros and cons for both 2 rail and 3 rail. It's true that if the user wants to run 2-10-4 and 4-12-4 locomotives they are going to need much bigger curves than what will be needed in 3 rail. Incidentally, a friend of mine and myself are both planning railroads. We are both going to using the same exact track curves and that is O99 and O108 with the only difference is I will be 2 rail and he will be 3 rail. I will have no problem running my Hudsons, Mohawks, and Niagaras on my layout and according to Mike Pitogo I will also be able to run MTH Big Boys and Challengers. No, I won't be able to run 2-10-4 and 4-12-4 locomotives but that's okay I just won't buy any. Some of the pros that I have found for 2 rail is that there are both electronic and mechanical NMRA Standards, and if I need a piece of track not offered by any manufacturer I can make it myself.

As far as product there's a lot of 2 rail stuff out there you just have to know where to find it. To say that 2 rail is more expensive than 3 rail just isn't true all the time. I recently bought a MTH Hudson with PT tender on the bay for $450. I have seen the same locomotive in 3 rail for slightly more money. I would say more of the time 3 rail is cheaper but not all the time. The fact that 3 rail is often cheaper has actually been good because at times I have gotten really cheap 3 rail locomotives and converted them to 2 rail. The bargains are out there in both 3 rail and 2 rail. You just have to be patient and you will find stuff.

The electrical myth: It isn't the time when electricity was new and not understood by folks which is why JLC went with a 3 rail track system. Those days are over if someone can wire a model RR in HO or N they can do the electrical work in O scale. It is no longer a big deal.

People see what they expect to see.  I've had many people come down here and spend a good deal of time viewing our layout.  After, they are away from it, I ask them: "How many rails?"  I get a crazy look for them because they know a railroad has 2 rails.  They don't notice.  Amazing!

Not really. You're talking about the public. To them all trains be it model or toy are just toys/entertainment. They don't know and they don't care but I bet if you had a bunch of hardcore HO and N scale guys down to your basement they would notice the center rail. I would hope most would be polite and not comment to you or insult you about it but they would notice it. I have heard stories on this forum of that very thing happening.

I believe that there is no right or wrong way to go about this hobby. I saw your layout in OGR and I think it is awesome.

To the OP:Get as much info as you can and as much practical/hands on experience as you can and pick which track system makes YOU the happiest.

All opinion.

I recently made the switch from 3-rail to 2 and Atlas makes the same model for both markets so the transition was easy. It also helps that between Atlas, Sunset Models and MTH all of the motive power that I want is represented.

My primary interest lies with the Wheeling & Lake Erie and they basically run 4 types of engines, all vintage EMD power: GP35's (Atlas), GP40's (MTH), SD40's (Atlas) and SD40-2's (Sunset Models). All of those models are offered in scale wheels and so far I have 2 GP35's (Petersen Supply Co.). The last 2 are preorders/reservations and the GP40 was done by MTH as a special run for Pat's Trains.

Anybody that tells you that they don't notice the 3rd rail is either blind or living in denial. I can honestly say that after 3 years in 3-rail and selling off all of my trains, power supplies, track and command systems that 2-rail is where I will stay as long as I'm in O gauge.

As far as prices go, speaking for Atlas, the locomotives are the same (TMCC and DCC), 2-rail rolling stock is about $5 more but 2-rail track is anywhere from $2 to $8 cheaper  than 3-rail per section. My NCE 10-Amp Power Pro Command Set was $570 but that will run any 2-rail DCC engine. My LEGACY and DCS were about $300 each but they're proprietary systems that will only run their respective engines.

Gargraves tin plate wood tie phantom track and Gargraves/Ross switches, soldering track feeders to tin plate track no issue just remembers to scuff off the black finish on the center(hot) rail to metal color of outside rails, both Gargraves and Ross have been marketing products for a number of years, inventory, availability and consumer support in my opinion is one of the best. Used their track and switches since the early 1990's, if I was starting over again they would still be my choice.   

2-rail or 3-rail: you see what bothers you. And you see it immediately... From far off... Every time.

Example: I have a couple show cars. I had a small scratch in one of them. It was a sore spot to me. I could see it over a car length away. None of my friends noticed it, until I showed them. (I suppose you could argue that they were just being considerate and not pointing it out.)

if the 3rd rail doesn't bother you, it fades into the layout unnoticed.

Ross track and turnouts I love my new turnouts. bought a few pcs of track to go between them to make crossover. Best looking track I have seen and overall cost is about the same. As funds allow will be replacing Menard's track with the Ross. Of course Menard's track cheap alternative if you can live with having to fix the dead short issues you get with their insulators at times.

 I have to say Atlas O is the best stuff I've ever used 

Just wanted to thank everyone for your advice. With just getting into o gauge there was alot of info that I got from all of you. I went to my local hobby shop and checked out some track and I liked the ross and gargraves. I also am going to check into 2 rail stuff too. I just thought 2 rail might not have so much available. 

My perspective is most of the track systems are pretty good. I've used FastTrack, RealTrax and Ross, along with a little bit of Gargraves. I even messed around with Atlas a little bit. I liked them all for different reasons. I finally decided on Ross (with a little bit of Gargraves) because A) I like the way it looks and the switches are friggin' awesome, and B) I like the idea of small businesses and products that are still made in America (this is not a big political thing, just a personal preference). I am sure you will do fine with whichever one you pick. Welcome to O!