30-2207-1 p2.

Hate to say it, but for the repair price, you might be ahead of the game buying a new R-K RS-3.  When PS2 upgrade boards were available, doing it yourself would have kept the repair <$200. The PS3 upgrade boards are said to be tough to work with.

I have a used 5V board I can sell you, you can contact me via my profile e-mail.  G

Talked to LHS RESELLERS 

They will get it repaired ...or refund

Found out they put the BCR in it

GGG posted:

I have a used 5V board I can sell you, you can contact me via my profile e-mail.  G

Email failed..please send the price...

How old was the BCR?  Nothing lasts forever.  Did you know it had a BCR when you put it on the track?  If you powered it up and put it in forward without the BCR charging, that did it for that board.   The seller should have made you aware of the engine having a BCR.  Buy a board from George and throw the old BCR away and use a new MTH green battery.  Many BCR situations like this exist.  I tell everyone buying a used MTH engine to know what is in the engine for a battery or BCR before powering up.  I end up with many pink/red BCR units in engines to be upgraded and I discard them.  I am not saying the BCR is a bad idea and if you are going to use a BCR, buy a new one and you will be good to go.  

I have finally replaced everything 5V on my layout.  If it will take a PS32 board, it gets one.  If the engine does not have much room to work with, I put in a 3V board and change the speaker.

e-mail sent to you. G

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

How old was the BCR?  Nothing lasts forever.  Did you know it had a BCR when you put it on the track?  If you powered it up and put it in forward without the BCR charging, that did it for that board.   The seller should have made you aware of the engine having a BCR.  Buy a board from George and throw the old BCR away and use a new MTH green battery.  Many BCR situations like this exist.  I tell everyone buying a used MTH engine to know what is in the engine for a battery or BCR before powering up.  I end up with many pink/red BCR units in engines to be upgraded and I discard them.  I am not saying the BCR is a bad idea and if you are going to use a BCR, buy a new one and you will be good to go.  

I have finally replaced everything 5V on my layout.  If it will take a PS32 board, it gets one.  If the engine does not have much room to work with, I put in a 3V board and change the speaker.

Marty,

Just curious why you do not like BCRs?  I think they are great and have never seen one that caused a problem.  Thanks,

Dave

Dave, I have had a few older ones go bad.   I know GRJ has also run into this.   I have never run into a bad  one that was used with the PS2  3V boards.   The old pink/red unit for PS2 5V boards  are what I am talking about.

There were a string of 3V that where bad too.  The wiring was not individually heat shrunk and the terminals of the capacitor shorted and blew a PS-2 3V power supply and processor.  Having said that, there are no issues with good BCR in use with PS-1 or PS-2 boards.  G

I've got a bad 9V BCR on my bench right now.  I'm going to pull it apart and see why it failed.  Things do fail, even stuff that's supposed to last "forever".

For my 3V engines, I have what I consider to be a fairly safe alternative.  Just a 5.4V superCAP with the proper connector.  Yes, I do put heatshrink on where needed.

The supercap does have an MTBF, usually at least 1,000 hours.  That's a lot of power-on hours unless you run all day.

Excessive heat is bad for batteries or capacitors, so it's a coin toss.

The LHS RESELLERS isn't sure if he installed the BCR..

I will mention the BCR issue to them next time we talk 

They are having a local guy check it...then possibly send it to a MTH repair guy around Kansas City...

I have other used Locos..never had one give me problems...especially in under 15 feet...

Is there a list that tells by MTH product number what voltage and battery replacement option is best for any given engine?

if not..there should be.

On a personal note...I am disgusted by the inherent fails so prevalent in MTH electrical products...

we pay good money, even for used, and to have so many potential money stealing glitches that can occur on what basically is a whim..a suspicious mind might believe without much provocation that the devil is in the design, by design.

People smart enough to design and build these devices should be cognizant enough to notice they designed a flaw ...

I'm of the mind, they knew. And just don't care...based on what I know of mike..it's not a stretch.

Your talking about a board released in 2000 and replaced with new in about 2003/4.  Designed in mid 90's.  It was the first of it's kind to do what it did.  Integrated sounds, smoke, speed to control and 9 light control features with 2 couplers and changeable sound features.  Lest we forget that TVs, and other devices from that period did not always last so long.

You also have no idea how it was treated in its 15 to 17 year life unless your the original owner.

The PS-2 3V have been very robust and also very repairable.  Do not just historical events by todays standards.  G

The engine I bought has nearly no wear. 

But I was speaking more in general than specific to one used engine. 

But hey, as long as there are those willing to defend mike, the improvements that are possible, and would make the hobby better, and train manufactures more profit, don't have to occur.  

And we all get to enjoy it together

on the same subject of boards, I had a lionel 213 lift bridge,,,loved it ,stopped working ,lionel took months to fix,,,,,then failed again,,,,this time lionel said sorry ,no more boards,so its not only mth

It's my understanding that the major problem with the 5-volt board was that a manufacturer supplied a component that did not hold up in service.  That's something the fabricator, MTH's contractor, could not control. The alternative would have been for MTH to specify MIL-rated parts, which would have considerably boosted the price to the consumer.

It is unfortunate that only Lionel and MTH, of all the companies doing business in the USA and elsewhere in all fields of endeavor, have  put out products that didn't hold up or had defects.  Or put out products for which, after awhile, replacement parts were not available.

I believe the 5V board was designed a bit less conservatively than the 3V board, some components were most likely running near their design limits.

It is not a matter of defending one over the other, but you make it seem like MTH is the only one with issues.  You also extrapolate one type of engine problem to everything MTH.  Recently there were a string of issues on Lionel engines going back multiple times.

What I said about MTH is the same for Lionel.  You seem to be making it personal, and that is a slippery slope. 

But it certainly seems to be the current type of dialogue today.  G

Engineer-Joe posted:

 I think there has been a mixed history with both the Caps and the batteries. I got some older G scale engines that the batteries went bad in. I wonder if excessive heat ended their life early?

 I also had a board that just didn't like the supercap? When I installed a battery, it was fine. With my history, I actually like both batteries and the caps. I'm leaning towards using the caps more in the G scale engines outside. I'll keep the batteries in the O scale that's inside. When the batteries go, for me it's a coin flip.

 Didn't someone just post an expected life for caps is also limited?

What is the procedure to replace caps with the 2.4 battery pack?

I'll post the question later ....

GGG

This email failed

gcubed@cox.net

Im interested in the price for the board

GGG posted:

It is not a matter of defending one over the other, but you make it seem like MTH is the only one with issues.  You also extrapolate one type of engine problem to everything MTH.  Recently there were a string of issues on Lionel engines going back multiple times.

What I said about MTH is the same for Lionel.  You seem to be making it personal, and that is a slippery slope. 

But it certainly seems to be the current type of dialogue today.  G

 

Im adding my few locos that had issues with all the other MTH Loco owners who had issues, I have read about, and people who own MTH that I know,  plus my experience with MTH, as compared to my experience with HO and DCC and NMRA Standards, which make model roading plessureable. 

The fact remains, O scale is not consumer driven like HO. 

I dont own Lionel, so I cant address their issues. 

I want to own Lionel as long as I can power it with my MTH DCS.  

And yes, I suppose anything I spend my money on is personal, to me, especially when I buy an item that tested good at the store, and ran 10 feet after I programmed it.  

Sort of like buying a used car at Joe's Used Cars, all cars $50.

Used cars bought from a dealer, even Joes..come with a 30 day warranty 

But not the manufacturer's warranty.  So why should you criticize MTH because you bought an old clunker?

And you're wrong about Joe's warranty.  It was until you got the clunker off his lot.

I am reminded of a maxim--If you want nice fresh oats, always buy from the grower.  If you want the cheapest and are willing to settle for used, contact the stable owner.

RJR...I'm not criticizing MTH for one used engine..that's your misconception. Do not misconstrue my complaints against MTH Mike and his inability to comprehend how to better serve his customers...

Since Joe's Used Cars isn't a private seller...as a business, just like my LHS Resellers ..who wish to stay in business...warranty is a requirement..

which I am getting from the LHS Resellers...because I spend a lot of money there....we joke they are my drug dealers....And they say I am one of their biggest MTH customers of cars and p2/p3

You, not I, chose your words:

"I am disgusted by the inherent fails so prevalent in MTH electrical products...we pay good money, even for used, and to have so many potential money stealing glitches that can occur on what basically is a whim..a suspicious mind might believe without much provocation that the devil is in the design, by design."

These were stimulated by a single second hand engine, so that if your words were misconceived, you must bear the blame.

I have some 35 engines on my layout, 27 being PS2 or PS3, and the rest ancient Lionel dating back to before WWII, all of which I acquired new.  I can tell you many stories of issues dating back to then (E-units, 3-pole motor issues, transformer issues), and go on from trains to cars, appliances, and a list that would overflow the forum.  No manufacturer can be sure how each component in a product will hold up until time has passed.  Over the years, I have had two MTH 5-volt boards fail, 0 (zero) 3-volt boards fail, and one loco with a board defect new from the factory.  That is a pretty good success rate.

my complaints against MTH Mike and his inability to comprehend how to better serve his customers...

When you build from scratch a successful and profitable company that's been in business for more than 20 years  and have a very satisfied customer base, then, just maybe,  you'd be qualified to discuss how to keep customers happy.

RJR

you are parsing my words to suit your agenda, you are taking my generalized comment and attempting to make it specific about one used engine 

but hey, I guess BCRs were an afterthought because NO ONE had trouble witht the batteries mike installed killing DCS boards    

Barry, Barry, Barry

I did build a business from scratch and serve my customer base, but thanks for your baseless assumption.

And my assertion still stands...that mike is losing potential profit because of his refusal to intergrate with Lionel.  

Funny how DIGITRAX, MRC, NCE, all use DCC and are serving their customers.   yet MTH has potential customers who will never buy a p2/3 because it wont perform with Lionel

I call that stupid

If it was dissimilar hobbies like slot cars and clay sculpting I could see it, but we're talking about O scale trains.  They sell the same produts....O scale trains

Imagine if MTH made their O scale track just a little narrower so that Lionel O scale wouldn't stay on the rails...would you be so quick to defend mike?  Or is your bias a byproduct of mikes failure to provide adequate and complete operating instructions, which created a niche market for you, playing a part in this?

My HO DCC DIGITRAX came with full instructions...I did not have to buy a seperate manual.

By the way, you did a great job filling mikes void.  

But my complaint is valid, and its not just me..i have talked to many, from LHS owners to fellow hobbyists...it doesnt take any effort to get a complaint about MTH and Mike from any of them  

one LHS will only sell MTH buildings and rolling stock, because he doesnt have to service them and deal with MTH poor service / support delays   

And Since I am neck deep in this hobby, and will soon be over my head in it after I retire, I reserve the authority to complain.

If I had the chance to go back in time I would have bought Lionel instead of Locosound and not be in this predicament  of liking a product and not the guy who builds it

GGG posted:

I have a used 5V board I can sell you, you can contact me via my profile e-mail.  G

I cant get your email to cooperate

i get failure reply

can you send me the price please

George, the key word is "GOOD".   A new or recent BCR is ok.  The old pink one from the PS-1 days keeps surfacing.    Dave, I work on  hundreds of locomotives each year and these situations do surface.  If anyone buys an old engine and puts it on the track without charging or replacing the battery,  shame on them.  If they see an old white battery and do nothing about it,  same goes.

It is not like this subject is not talked about here on the forum.  I had a guy about five years ago blow the crap out of his five volt board.  He told me the battery looked good to him.   I checked it and it had less than one volt.  I am very old fashioned and need to use a meter.

I sell a few engines here on the forum and fully check them out.  Nothing goes out my door without a fully charged recent or new battery.   Many do not take this step.

Guys/Gals, if you buy a used engine from anywhere, please follow the outline on the battery.  Batteries are cheap.  Boards and the person to replace them, not so cheap.  

It was allegedly tested by LHS

I ran it conventional before I bought it

Programed and ran 10 feet. 

LHS sent for repair.. Was determined that the red lead fromth truck

Shorted to the frame... It actually melted the wire

LHS Offered to split cost of $250 or as full refund... I took refund

All is good

But Id like to know more about the used battery guidelines 

Very smart move on the refund.