Noticed this evening that the title description has changed, as well as the location, of the 3RS, 3-Rail SCALE Forum. Any reason for that?
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Look at the other forum descriptions, maybe it'll make more sense. The first forum changed name and description.
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I am confused now too and with the warnings about topics going into the incorrect forums where am I supposed to post questions about two rail wind-up Hafner trains? I guess this demonstrates the need for a 2-rail, and I'm not sure, would it be a Traditional or Toy Train forum? Otherwise do I run the risk of the posts being deleted since Hafner doesn't fit in any of the current provided forums?
On a different note based on scale and number of rails should O scale outside 3rd rail posts technically be in the 3 rail scale forum?
@MPS posted:I am confused now too and with the warnings about topics going into the incorrect forums where am I supposed to post questions about two rail wind-up Hafner trains? I guess this demonstrates the need for a 2-rail, and I'm not sure, would it be a Traditional or Toy Train forum? Otherwise do I run the risk of the posts being deleted since Hafner doesn't fit in any of the current provided forums?
On a different note based on scale and number of rails should O scale outside 3rd rail posts technically be in the 3 rail scale forum?
I'd say that Hafner wind-up would be Tinplate.
Finally separating the scale from the gauge, LOL!
Basically, it’s the non-scale gauge toy forum and a True O scale forum. Please stop using the overstated lobster claw term, it just aggravates operators & modelers. We don’t see or study the couplers, middle rail and large wheel flanges when running 3R SCALE trains. 3R has been screwed up from the beginning, so deal with it or stick with 2RO or H.O.
It’s not just all about Kadee Couplers.
That's what these guys say.
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@gunrunnerjohn posted:Look at the other forum descriptions, maybe it'll make more sense. The first forum changed name and description.
Now I'm really confused.
Many 3-rail trains are clearly toys, but many are not. Different people will draw the line differently. For example, would discussing a nicely-detailed MTH Railking item be "traditional" (since they're O-27ish), while a Premier item would be "scale"? What if a topic is comparing the two? Is an early Lionel Hudson "scale", but the 1950s version "toy"? How does Hi-rail fit into all of this?
Seems like splitting hairs unnecessarily. I don't get too bothered by a topic being in the wrong category - I just skip it and move on, but I can see the frustration with those whose mis-classified topics get deleted without explanation.
Perhaps the 3-rail scale category's description would be more useful if it said "excludes trains made by Lionel, MTH, Marx, RMT, Williams, etc." (the list could get rather long).
Don’t overthink the change with details. Unlike H.O. there are to many variations in so called "O"
Just stick with SCALE or non-Scale without all the little additional inserts. You must factor in times and eras as well. Ex. Old Lionel era items scale or not, still considered with-in the golden age of the toy train era. Now we have modern era scale items. RK engines are an exception, I still consider them scale.
FYI, RMT ore cars were K-Line SCALE items.
Consider the Title like an average I guess?
@SIRT posted:Finally separating the scale from the gauge, LOL!
Basically, it’s the non-scale gauge toy forum and a True O scale forum. Please stop using the overstated lobster claw term, it just aggravates operators & modelers.
Really? When the "lobster clays" don't couple without banking them together, plus come uncoupled when operating long freight trains, i.e. over 25 cars.
We don’t see or study the couplers, middle rail and large wheel flanges when running 3R SCALE trains. 3R has been screwed up from the beginning, so deal with it or stick with 2RO or H.O.
It’s not just all about Kadee Couplers.
Well,,,,,,actually it IS "all about Kadee couplers" if one really enjoys switching in a yard, and/or pick-ups and set-outs with a local freight consist. Then there is also the nice close-coupling of rolling stock with body mounted Kadee couplers.
I noticed the term "Hi-Rail" is missing altogether. Is that term dead? Which is the correct forum if posting about a mix of scale and non-scale trains and scenery elements? Not a very good photo, but example below of an MTH RK L1 pulling an Atlas O scale boxcar past an Atlas Depot. It's not a true scale scene and does not approach the fantastic realism that SIRT and others create, yet it's not post war either. That's not to knock PW, I enjoy PW too. Just wondering where is the appropriate forum home for hi-rail modelers.
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Another solution in search of a problem.
I am curious how many actually only read a specific forum vs just check the topics in the right hand column and select one that interests you?
Pete
Category A- Everything but the kitchen sink
Category B- Kitchen Sink
Seems to sum it up IMHO! 
Personally, I think lumping so much under the term "Toy" is going to add to the confusion, not clear it up.
@Norton posted:Another solution in search of a problem.
I am curious how many actually only read a specific forum vs just check the topics in the right hand column and select one that interests you?
Pete
I'm with you! I surf the sidebar mostly.
@Norton posted:Another solution in search of a problem.
I am curious how many actually only read a specific forum vs just check the topics in the right hand column and select one that interests you?
Pete
Agreed re: "solution" - dunno why the new division between collectors/operators and "modelers" as I thought we all fall into the latter category. No matter as long as I know where to find what I read most.
I generally check the 3R Scale forum less than half as often as the Traditional 3R one, and the Lionel Control System and Products forums about the same amount. To be honest, after several years I have only just starting using the sidebar (or whatever it's called) to keep up with different threads as the 2021 catalog threads have been spread out in different places. I now see the utility of that (meaning the sidebar).
I'm really confused as to where topics go. This is the very reason I have always resisted zillions of sub-forums for a board! It's just way to complicated to find the "exact" right sub-forum to post some topics in. I prefer a broader brush with fewer places to add to the confusion.
Case in point is the Lionel and MTH sub-forum groupings. Do we really need all the sub-forums, it takes longer to figure out which place to put a topic than it does to actually type it in! 
I know we don't get a vote, but I'd love to see some consolidation of some of these mostly unused and confusing sub-forums. 
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I can certainly agree with John. Maybe a "products" "service" and "tips" for each would be enough.
Mth lacks a "service question" topic. I guess MTH trains are more reliable
@RickO posted:I can certainly agree with John. Maybe a "products" "service" and "tips" for each would be enough.
Mth lacks a "service question" topic. I guess MTH trains are more reliable
I suggested weeks ago to at the very least make the 2 sections identical.
I check the sidebar, but then I have to go directly to the Tinplate Forum because topics on it fall off fast as they are overwhelmed by the posts on the others.
I think the Forum Sprawl was triggered by people complaining they had to scroll past topics they weren't interested in. However, I believe that's just made things way more complicated for the moderators to keep things straight. All the extra forums haven't really added anything positive, at least IMO.
I don't see what the big deal is avoiding a topic you aren't interested in, I can walk and chew gum at the same time, can't you? 
One more thing: I see that the "Tinplate Forum" is now the "3-Rail Tinplate Forum." Are we telling the guys who do clockwork (i.e. 2-Rail) they can't play anymore, or do they go to the 2-Rail Scale? 
I guess you just put your topic in whatever forum you think is correct, then let the admins. move it for you to the correct forum as needed. Simple as that.
Jeff
@Norton posted:I am curious how many actually only read a specific forum vs just check the topics in the right hand column and select one that interests you?
Pete
I check the topics in the right hand column and read whatever interests me without paying attention to which forum they're in. I never select a particular forum to look for topics. I just choose from the currently active discussions - no matter what forum they're in.
MELGAR
@mowingman posted:I guess you just put your topic in whatever forum you think is correct, then let the admins. move it for you to the correct forum as needed. Simple as that.
One little problem with that idea, they've been simply deleting stuff that was in the wrong sub-forum!
Every forum has something interesting in it for me, some less often than others. I use the sidebar and go back to the last time I looked at it. If it has been a while, I’ll go to All Posts to see posts older than the last one on the sidebar.
If I want to reply to a post from the sidebar, I make sure I know what sub-forum I’m in so I don’t embarrass myself (again).
I'll tell you what would be a real advance in the forum descriptions!
How about listing the sub-forum for each of the topics in the "Recent" list?
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I'll tell you what would be a real advance in the forum descriptions!
How about listing the sub-forum for each of the topics in the "Recent" list?
ABSOLUTELY!!!! I asked Rich for that "feature" way more than a year ago, but it seems that the Crowdstack folks are not interested, or able, to provide that.
Just curious, but in the "Advanced Search" feature, how come there isn't a filter to limit an advanced search to a particular forum or sub-forum?
@Mixed Freight posted:Just curious, but in the "Advanced Search" feature, how come there isn't a filter to limit an advanced search to a particular forum or sub-forum?
There is, you just have to select it.
What probably crosses you up is you also have to select this from the top to be able to pick the forum.
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@Hot Water posted:ABSOLUTELY!!!! I asked Rich for that "feature" way more than a year ago, but it seems that the Crowdstack folks are not interested, or able, to provide that.
That would be a real advance and go a long way toward minimizing the postings that are in the wrong place. It's pretty difficult at times from the titles to know where the post fits.
@Norton posted:Another solution in search of a problem.
I am curious how many actually only read a specific forum vs just check the topics in the right hand column and select one that interests you?
Pete
That’s all I do, ...heck, sometimes I don’t even bother to look at the forum or sub forum, or the sub-sub forum,.....half the time I respond to a question, or a request, only to find out it’s gone after a swallow of coffee,....and it always seems to be the good topics,....guess I need to look harder at what & where it’s posted,....
on another note, I guess my junk winds up in the right place, ....although leaning towards scale accuracy, I still have the angry fist couplers, .....and there ain’t a “almost but not quite 3RS forum” yet, so I guess I’m doing ok!......maybe they’ll make a “ what are you destroying today?” forum, ......cause that’s where you’ll find me,....24-7 ....😆😆😆
Pat
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I'll tell you what would be a real advance in the forum descriptions!
How about listing the sub-forum for each of the topics in the "Recent" list?
That would be quite the mess. I can't imagine the jumble of junk on the right hand side of the screen. In reality if the posts are showing up over there, they are already possibly in the wrong place. What good would it be to have the sub forum with it?
@MartyE posted:That would be quite the mess. I can't imagine the jumble of junk on the right hand side of the screen. In reality if the posts are showing up over there, they are already possibly in the wrong place. What good would it be to have the sub forum with it?
Does not compute Marty. All recent posts show up on the right, are you saying all recent posts are in the wrong place?
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Does not compute Marty. All recent posts show up on the right, are you saying all recent posts are in the wrong place?
Maybe I missing what your asking. No all the recent posts on the right are fine. That's more or less how I see what interests me. But now if you are going to add the sub category info to that what does that accomplish besides making it a mess? Maybe that's not what you are suggesting.
AH THE INFORMATION AGE! AND IT CONTINUES TO COMPOUND ITSELF. I LIKE TO KEEP IT SIMPLE IF POSSIBLE. DEFFINITLY A " RIGHT COLUMN" KIND OF GUY.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:There is, you just have to select it.
What probably crosses you up is you also have to select this from the top to be able to pick the forum.
Oops! Missed it. Thanks for the correction GRJ, good to know. 
@MartyE posted:Maybe I missing what your asking. No all the recent posts on the right are fine. That's more or less how I see what interests me. But now if you are going to add the sub category info to that what does that accomplish besides making it a mess? Maybe that's not what you are suggesting.
I'd just like to see what sub-forum the recent posts are in, I don't want them separated into sub-categories, that would be a mess! Something like this is what I'm suggesting for each entry. It shouldn't take more space, just give you more information.
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@gunrunnerjohn posted:I'd just like to see what sub-forum the recent posts are in, I don't want them separated into sub-categories, that would be a mess! Something like this is what I'm suggesting for each entry. It shouldn't take more space, just give you more information.
I personally think that's unnecessary and won't help from posts going into the wrong section because that really relies on the person who started the post. Just my opinion though. To me it looks like it will just add clutter.
How about a new forum on "organization of sub-forums?" This is attracting a lot of discussion, so probably needs its own sub-forum for those interested only in the organization of forums.
(Just kidding )
Well...I was waiting for the changes to be met with plenty of push back and I was not disappointed. I had planned yesterday to make an announcement right after the changes BUT this topic was almost immediately started so I decided to wait for some feedback.
Let me give you some history about these changes. They were offered by another forum member that participated in an earlier thread a few weeks ago concerned about how the mods were deleting misplaced posts and the mix mash of categories we have. I chimed in and gave some reasons why this was happening and asked that if anyone had some suggestions to make the descriptions better, to contact me. I got exactly ONE response! The changes you see are verbatim from the suggested changes. Interesting that many of you that are posting your dislike for these changes also participated in the earlier thread but didn't take me up on submitting CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions on how we can make these categories easier to understand.
We have all of the categories because over the years forum members wanted them and asked to have specialized places where they could participate in their area of interest. This is not OGR's fault, we were just trying to make as many people happy as possible but as the old saying goes, one can not please everyone!
OK...so I am very open to CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions. I have no problem with reducing the number of categories because frankly I also believe we have too many! Keep in mind we contract this site with Crowdstack so certain things we can not do on our own and have to ask if Crowdstack is willing to make those changes we want. MOST of the time they won't or can't. Also, there may be the problem of whether or not we can combine categories. In other words, during the reduction of categories, we may not be able to combine them which means we would PERHAPS have to do away with or close topics that you all like which would mean you would have to just start over in the new consolidated category.
With all of the above said, the intention of the changes were to try to distinguish between toy traditionally sized trains and more modern scale sized trains. Tinplate trains whether they can be run on 3-rail, 2-rail, or windup seemed to me to obviously go into the tinplate category but heck, what do I know. I didn't want to over analyze this. Basically, if a train was produced and it is traditionally sized, runs on traditional track and doe not have modern electronics I see as going into the traditional 0-27, etc. category. If a train is scale sized and has modern electronics then we have individual manufacturer categories for those. I however do see some of the confusion and agree with many of the comments above.
Lets work together on this. I would like you to take time to really come up with a plan for our categories. After all, I want this forum to flow easier and make sense as far as categories. I don't like the fact that topics get deleted because we have precious little time and resources to move them all over the place to make sure they are in the correct forum. SO....PLEASE submit in this thread REAL plans for the categories you want keeping in mind all of the possible topics that generally come up. By the way, we are not going to have a general category for discussion about things other than trains. It always becomes a problem with comments and "opinions" that go beyond the purpose of this forum.
Alright everyone, submit your plans and lets see what we can do. We will take suggestions for one week. Next weekend I will go through them and then give an update.
I really appreciate you all!
Alan
