A LOOK INSIDE THE LIONEL BRASS HYBRID

The videos are full of good information, Alex (especially for those of us who own the Santa Fe 2-8-2).  

Thanks for posting.

WOW!  That is awesome.  Dave couldn't have picked a better guy to do this.  When you mentioned the shell being isolated on both the engine and the tender what did you mean by that?

Very nice. Thank you. 

Excellent video, Alex - thanks for posting. That being said, in the word of Rudyard Kipling, "You're a braver man than I, Gunga Din". Being a confirmed techno-peasant, while I fully appreciate what goes into one of these engines, and being fascinated by the intricacies of one of these newer engines, ain't no way I would want to take one apart!!! You couldn't count the screws I'd lose.

Great videos Alex, and it's interesting to see they're packing the smoke units with the shredded wick instead of the felt pads.  It's an interesting combination by Lionel, using the proven diecast chassis with the brass detail on top.

One small correction, I don't think there's any reason to insulated the tender shell as there's no issue with it being connected to the tender chassis.  The locomotive is using the shell as the antenna, so it obviously DOES have to be insulated from the chassis.

MartyE posted:

WOW!  That is awesome.  Dave couldn't have picked a better guy to do this.  When you mentioned the shell being isolated on both the engine and the tender what did you mean by that?

Hi Marty, Thanks

The brass shell of the engine is going to be used as the antenna, so it has to be isolated from the chassis.

Alex

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Great videos Alex, and it's interesting to see they're packing the smoke units with the shredded wick instead of the felt pads.  It's an interesting combination by Lionel, using the proven diecast chassis with the brass detail on top.

One small correction, I don't think there's any reason to insulated the tender shell as there's no issue with it being connected to the tender chassis.  The locomotive is using the shell as the antenna, so it obviously DOES have to be insulated from the chassis.

Hi John , Yes LOL! i don't think the tender shell has to be isolated, just the engine shell. This is what happens when you're trying to think what you have to say next, and then screw it up.

Alex

Alex, I kinda' figured that was just a "stream of consciousness" comment that you didn't even notice you stuck in.   You're so used to insulating the tender shell for upgrades that it's burned into your brain!

That makes sense about the tender. That was a bit confusing. Great video. 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Alex, I kinda' figured that was just a "stream of consciousness" comment that you didn't even notice you stuck in.   You're so used to insulating the tender shell for upgrades that it's burned into your brain!

YES !!!! Absolutely hysterical , we isolate so many tenders that it was just natural for me to say that. I can't stop laughing !!!!

Alex

MartyE posted:

That makes sense about the tender. That was a bit confusing. Great video. 

Marty you're paying to close attention i was hoping no one would listen that closely , So i could hide any mistakes LOL!!!!!

Alex

Alex M posted:

MartyE posted:

That makes sense about the tender. That was a bit confusing. Great video. 

Marty you're paying to close attention i was hoping no one would listen that closely , So i could hide any mistakes LOL!!!!!

Alex

I always pay attention when you do videos like this.  I learn a lot.

Awesome review Alex!!!

Nice Video Alex- Thank you for the review. What I like is the modular boards and the ribbon type wiring.  Also the modular type chassis that different boilers/cabs/ and pilots can be mounted to. This shows with the newly tooled internals Lionel has dedicated to, and that more is yet to come in hybrid locomotives!

Alex,

I thought you were going to take apart every single piece, count them, and then put them back together blindfolded like Houdini. I am so disappointed. Bummer. So the stack gets screwed. LOL

Scrapiron Scher 

Alex - brilliant as always bud - thank you very much for sharing.

Best,

Michael

That is brilliant Alex - like all your work. Many thanks to you but also Lionel for making this possible.

Personally I am most interested in the smoke unit changes. I doubt I could understand what the code changes are/do but better placing of the thermistors and not using the pre-cut pads makes sense.

This really encourages me to think about the next Lionel brass hybrid offering as the idea seems to have been very well executed.

 I always enjoy your videos of the insides of these engines.

I want to comment if it doesn't offend you. I've always wondered if we should have some type of gloves on when we handle unpainted brass? It may not apply here, but maybe it would if we wanted to paint down the road I believe? Maybe not? I'm not sure what continued handling of the raw brass does??? I see older models for sale that have some type of tarnish that I have guessed is from the oil off our skin??

 Anyways, thanks again for sharing your work and your skills. If I understand this correctly it is impressive that they shipped you a prototype!

That smallish motor mounted backwards reminds me of the K-Line scale Mikado.

RoyBoy posted:

That smallish motor mounted backwards reminds me of the K-Line scale Mikado.

Because it is. All the Lionel scale mikados made since the demise of K-Line are based on that engine.

Keep up the good work Alex.

Pete

Thanks Alex, although you make it look easy as pie to take apart, I still will go to my local hobby shop for repair if ever it needs fixing....Thanks for your time and enthusiasm you have for this, The Best Hobby in the World”. WOW! 

Nice job, Alex. Very informative.

Dave

+

Great job Alex.   Good move to show it apart.   Many members have never seen the inside before.  This like all top end steam locomotives is done up with all the right parts.   It was good for everyone to see the inside of the smoke unit.  Lionel is using the 691SMKP008 shreded (Reaganized) wicking on all the top end locomtoives.   Hopefully Lionel will be doing a few more of these locomotives down the road.  Again, like all your work, well done.

I am the biggest fan of the RCMC  PCB.  One board does all.  Makes working on these a bit more friendly.

Thermistors in the smoke unit. Does this mean no more replacing chard wicking material? Assuming one fills it and operates it properly. Thanks alex nice video hope dave lets you do more. This engine looks easy to work on if needed also. Kudos to dave and ryan at lionel for that.

You will still have to replace the wick at some point. Nothing last forever. The more you use that smoke unit, especially on high with EFX up, it will still char and need replacement. 

Very cool Alex!  If it weren't for you I would never pull an engine apart like that to see how it ticks! Thank you.

Engineer-Joe posted:

 I always enjoy your videos of the insides of these engines.

I want to comment if it doesn't offend you. I've always wondered if we should have some type of gloves on when we handle unpainted brass? It may not apply here, but maybe it would if we wanted to paint down the road I believe? Maybe not? I'm not sure what continued handling of the raw brass does??? I see older models for sale that have some type of tarnish that I have guessed is from the oil off our skin??

Are these coated like the Lionel "Pilot" models rather than raw, unfinished brass?

I would hope at some point Alex or anyone else that disassembles these could do a video of the process.  I realize it can be as easy as remove 4 screws and the top comes off but in some cases there are connection to be taken apart and some details that need either removed or at minimal attention as to not damage them.  Same for the re-assembly process.  I agree though Alex's Big boy thread was awesome for me.

RoyBoy posted:

That smallish motor mounted backwards reminds me of the K-Line scale Mikado.

Someone finally noticed the backwards motor! 

"Because it is. All the Lionel scale mikados made since the demise of K-Line are based on that engine."

Personally, it doesn't matter to me, but correct me if I am wrong, didn't K-Line take a good bashing because of the "backwards" motor, yet, now it is OK if Lionel does it? 

When my loco arrived, although lighting up, it would not respond to my CAB.  Didn't hear back from Lionel's "Talk to Us" for several days so emailed Dave Olson.  As usual, Dave was prompt to respond and suggested the problem might be a loose board from shipping.  I told him I was familiar with opening locos up for servicing (mainly smoke units!) so he said to go ahead and check, but warned me about the new antenna configuration with the boiler shell.

Opening mine up, I found all the boards sitting tight.  Disappointed to find nothing wrong, I started to put the shells back together when I noticed that one of the insulators on the inside of the shell was missing.  Could that be the problem?  So, I put a new one in its place, reassembled the shell and VIOLA it ran perfectly.

PeterA posted:

Dave was prompt to respond and suggested the problem might be a loose board from shipping.  I told him I was familiar with opening locos up for servicing (mainly smoke units!) so he said to go ahead and check, but warned me about the new antenna configuration with the boiler shell.

I hope Lionel realizes what an asset they have in Dave Olson, both from a technical and a public relations side.

MartyE posted:

 I agree though Alex's Big boy thread was awesome for me.

I saved the Big Boy pictures as a reference.  When I want to see what's inside my VL-BB, I just take a look there.  Much easier than taking mine apart.

John, the VL-BB is the easiest locomotive to work on.  

Big Jim posted:

RoyBoy posted:

That smallish motor mounted backwards reminds me of the K-Line scale Mikado.

Someone finally noticed the backwards motor! 

"Because it is. All the Lionel scale mikados made since the demise of K-Line are based on that engine."

Correct me if I am wrong, didn't K-Line take a good bashing because of the "backwards" motor, yet, now it is OK if Lionel does it? 

I don't recall anyone saying it was OK. Its simply a fact that when Lionel started re-releasing the K-Line engines they acquired the rights to they made few changes other than new electronics. That includes the Mikados light and heavy, PRR A5 and B6. The B&M style Berks did get a bigger motor but thats is the only one I am aware of that got a bigger motor. The frame used for this SF engine is from the K-Line, later, Lionel USRA Mikado. Look at the area of the frame that sits below the smokebox and you can still see the supports for the puffer smoke unit.

Pete

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

John, the VL-BB is the easiest locomotive to work on.  

Yep, I was taken by how easy it was to pop mine open to change the dead cab LED.  The hardest part was the actual LED replacement, it's an SMT part on a tiny board.  The trick was they actually have a plastic dome over it you had to pry off and then glue back on.

Great video ALEX!!!!

One question about taking the boiler off and the wiring to get it away from the chassis.  Could you do a video to show how to take the wiring off and make it free? 

Keep up the good work and see you at YORK.

Nice work as always Alex!  Great information for those of us "wannabe" train mechanics.

I could just imagine how many " how the **** do you get the smoke unit out" posts regarding that loco had you not shown the stack getting threaded in.

BobbyD posted:

Engineer-Joe posted:

 I always enjoy your videos of the insides of these engines.

I want to comment if it doesn't offend you. I've always wondered if we should have some type of gloves on when we handle unpainted brass? It may not apply here, but maybe it would if we wanted to paint down the road I believe? Maybe not? I'm not sure what continued handling of the raw brass does??? I see older models for sale that have some type of tarnish that I have guessed is from the oil off our skin??

Are these coated like the Lionel "Pilot" models rather than raw, unfinished brass?

The sample is not coated, but the production models are polished, then coated. That being said, the tarnish on unpainted brass models can easily be cleaned before painting as has been done for decades on other brass models. Not gonna harm the brass, just some people prefer the spotless look although at the same time, some people like a little patina too.