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I readily agree there are some truly terrible websites; difficult to navigate and not properly updated.

However I also know if you’re having trouble with pages loading; slow or getting bounced off the site completely. And if the shopping cart is not functioning properly, you may want to consider the browser you’re using. Many versions of Internet Explorer do not share proprietary information well with E Commerse websites. This includes the latest and updated versions of IE 8 & 7. While you may find it easy to blame the individual retailer for not keeping up with the technology it wouldn’t be fair to do so. Even AT&T recommends using third party web browsers other than Internet Explorer to navigate their website because of this issue.

Personally I use Fire Fox for online business without any issues. The Browser is easy to download and user friendly. I constantly clear my cache and cookies and reboot after I finish doing business with an individual site and rarely have problems with pages loading too slow from a clean and clear Fire Fox browser.

All web browsers are not equal and though you may believe Microsoft is the industry standard, that does not necessary equate with it being the industry best but more likely equates with it being the slowest, most bloated and most likely to be hacked.

Boy, I tell ya, this thread continues to remain relevant.  I just clicked one of the forum sponsors at the top of this page.  They have a reasonably attractive home page so I clicked their "Shop Online" link to look around.......

 

.....and perhaps buy something......

 

.....but, instead, I got this message in my Chrome browser:

 

Google Chrome could not load the webpage because <web page name> took too long to respond. The website may be down, or you may be experiencing issues with your Internet connection.

 

I mean, sheesh, if you're going to pay to be a OGR Forum sponsor, why not be ready when some goofball like me walks up with his hand on his wallet?

Originally Posted by rtr12:

I would not be so quick to judge, it could have been an internet problem as the error message stated. Now if you try this a few times over a longer period of time (say a day or two), then I would start looking at the website. There are a LOT of variables in ones internet service provider, the internet and their connections.

Well, what you say is true, but:

  • All other pages except their online shopping area are responsive
  • The shopping area is served up from the same domain as their main site.
  • I quoted the "user-friendly" message here.  The underlying message indicates they're down.

But we'll see.

I'll report back tomorrow.

 

SJS

RTR12, your point turned out to be a good one: After being offline for several hours, the seller's website is back online this morning.  Nice and fast, too.

 

For this and other sellers, please look into InternetSeer.com.  It's a free website monitoring service that automatically sends an email when a website cannot be accessed.  I use it as a backup to some commercial services we have for our business.  The InternetSeer notification often arrives before the ones from the for-pay services.

Bottom Line: This particular vendor is back in business.  Now, I'll go check out their prices and inventory...

 

quote:
I really wonder how many of these retailers try and navigate their own site as a "customer" to gauge what it is like?  I have seen some as all of you that are pretty nice but so many are just headache inducing and really cause me to pass. 



 

That is not always a good measure of how user friendly the site is.
When one uses their own site, they typically have knowledge of how that site is constructed, and how to navigate it. So every thing seems right.
It is usually better to have someone (better yet, several people) who was not involved in the design or construction of the site go through it.

 

I don't think ranking web sites on ease of use would be helpful to the web site owners. IMHO, they would need specifics in order to make improvements.

 

My biggest complaint: I want an option to see lists, without pictures. On many sites, items are displayed in boxes with pictures. One has to scroll though page after page to see what's available.

Last edited by C W Burfle
An even greater contributor to loss of business is that according to MTH's own statistics only slightly more than 30% of all MTH dealers even make use of the productor locator MTH makes available to them.
 
 
Originally Posted by Martin H:
No, its not hyperbole.  I only said they will lose business.  I did not qualify that by specifing 1/10 of 1%, or 40%.
 
Lots of times I find something in stock per the MTH product finder.  Click on the dealer name and find they have no website or a website with no indication of prices/inventory.  That's lost business.  Whether it amounts to 1 sale per year, or 35% fewer sales per year, my original statement rings true.
 
So either I go to the next dealer listed or I give up and 10 minutes later I'm looking at an unrelated loco on ebay.  
 
Originally Posted by Rocky Mountaineer:
Originally Posted by Martin H:

       

At least three repliers in this thread have said "just pick up the phone" if you have problems with the dealer website.

 

That's archaic thinking.

...Ignore this and you WILL lose business.


       
With all due respects, that is such hyperbole.  And I'm being as polite as I can here.

 

Last edited by ogaugeguy



quote:
All web browsers are not equal and though you may believe Microsoft is the industry standard, that does not necessary equate with it being the industry best but more likely equates with it being the slowest, most bloated and most likely to be hacked.




 

I have found that more and more websites do not work properly with Internet Explorer. I still use IE as my primary browser because I have not been annoyed enough to switch to another. When a site malfunctions on IE, I switch to Firefox.

A lot of folks are comparing LHS web pages to Amazon's and I think that's a bit like comparing a grain of rice to a coconut.

 

From an old article about Amazon:

 

The core technology that keeps Amazon running is Linux-based. As of 2005, Amazon had the world’s three largest Linux databases, with capacities of 7.8 TB, 18.5 TB, and 24.7 TB. The central data warehouse of Amazon is made of 28 Hewlett Packard servers with four CPUs per node running Oracle database software. Amazon’s technology architecture handles millions of back-end operations every day, as well as queries from more than half a million third-party sellers.

 

Somehow, I just don't see a 'Mom & Pop' hobby store making that kind of investment in their web presence. Especially when, in many cases, the web page is being taken care of by a family friend or relative.

 

 

Last edited by Len2

here's my take.

 

If a business, any business, is going to have an online presence, then they must do it right.

 

Just because it's a train store shouldn't mean they get a pass, "because it's takes time and they have business to run."

 

That's fine. Then don't do e-commerce.   If you do, then do it right.

 

Side note, because of my crazy schedule, which is not set day to day, I often shop at odd hours.

 

Businesses that have good e-commerce get my business.   Businesses that don't, don't.

 

I look at all this as a former long time business owner, from a family of business owners, starting with my grandfather in 1917.  No one else but me is responsible for keeping me in business.  I either did it right, adapted to the times, or I'd lose business.

 

Lastly, if your web presence is just for visibility of your shop, which is an excellent use of the internet, make sure you answer the phone in a polite and professional manner, and not like the old curmudgeon who's tired of being in business.  This happens all too often in the hobby.

 

This is true of ANY business.   Consumers have numerous choices where to spend their money.  Do it right and reap the rewards.  Do it wrong, and we'll see you in the latest "another LHS closes" thread on OGR.

 

Last edited by EscapeRocks
Originally Posted by johnstrains:

Let's be clear. Some dealers' sites may have issues because of browser types and versions or other compatibility issues. However, there are several dealers out there -- and some have already been mentioned above -- that frankly have poorly constructed web sites and/or performance isssues.

 

I'm not upset about it. It's just a fact.

John,

 

 I concur.

 

If I'm having an issue with with a website, I will usually fire up other browsers.  Between my Mac and PC, I will fire up IE, Firefox, Chrome, and Safari.

Originally Posted by Serenska:

RTR12, your point turned out to be a good one: After being offline for several hours, the seller's website is back online this morning.  Nice and fast, too.

 

For this and other sellers, please look into InternetSeer.com.  It's a free website monitoring service that automatically sends an email when a website cannot be accessed.  I use it as a backup to some commercial services we have for our business.  The InternetSeer notification often arrives before the ones from the for-pay services.

Bottom Line: This particular vendor is back in business.  Now, I'll go check out their prices and inventory...

Good to hear that it is working properly now and you are able to use it. The internet monitoring is also a good idea. What would really be nice would be a way to tell where the problem lies when something like this happens. There are so many things that can be out of whack it is hard to even know where to start looking.

 

I recently had a similar problem with youtube, everything there that had worked for years began to give me problems. Naturally I thought it was something youtube had changed. I normally use IE and it got to the point I was switching to Chrome to use youtube, it worked fine there. Finally one day while poking around in my computer I found the Google toolbar. Something had installed it and for some reason I had disabled it instead of removing it. I think it was Adobe reader, I wasn't paying attention during the install as I normally don't allow these added bonus items to be installed. Anyway I immediately removed it and my youtube problem in IE was solved.

 

To some of the other posters, as for some of the other comments about businesses checking the operation of their own websites, it would be best to have someone that doesn't even know how to use a computer test it out. That's where you will find the problems. Also as some others stated, the business or website owner is too familiar with their own stuff, they know how it's supposed to work and test accordingly. The real problems are found by people that try to use the site in ways it was not designed to operate. 

 

The other problem with small train stores or hobby shops and websites is technology, time and money. Many of them may have one or two of those items, but few have all three which it takes to operate a suitable website for online business. If it was easy, everyone would have a perfect working website and our online ordering would be a breeze at any site we visited.

johnstrains posted:
Originally Posted by david1:

One great site is Modeltrainstuff , easy to navigate and they can tell you how much of a item they have in stock. That is a great feature that most shops should have.

Yep, in my opinion the best in the train business (Model Train Stuff, aka M.B. Klein). The real-time inventory is  fantastic.

I  have to agree. I once ordered a Weaver flat with trailer from them. Their site showed one in stock, I placed the order and a few minutes later went back to check something else and noticed that the listing for that flat was now zero. Note: I received the car three days later.

 

Rocky Mountaineer posted:       
And ironically, Al and Libby are two of the nicest shop owners around.  I also love talking to Jim and Dottie whenever I call.  The website has it's awkward quirks, but their professionalism and good-natured ways have won my business for years.

David

I also agree there, I would stop in and visit (usually leaving some cash behind! ) and have great time.

I know that we all have gotten used to browsing and shopping on the web. But please consider that we are talking about an industry with very small margins, and web sites, particularly e-commerce sites, are not cheap to build, nor to keep updated. I've designed and managed production on many sites, and the costs can get into a year's salary pretty quickly, and then browsers change, and it all must be updated. 

I know it's frustrating folks, but I've had a couple small manufacturing clients dismantle their e-commerce sites so we could more efficiently and cost friendly, tell their story in a brochure-ware site, and let the sales happen by email or phone. The trend is spreading, and some forecast that quite a lot of online sales will be moving to amazon and ebay in the near future. )hopefully a new entity comes along to give them some competition)

Not saying what's right, wrong, good or bad. Just the way it is.

Tim

Last edited by Timothy Sprague

I don't think anyone expects a typical small store to have the kind of web presence an Amazon or ebay does, Amazon has huge server farms all over the country, to the point where a lot of their revenue is in Amazon Web services and cloud hosting for businesses. 

That said, though, Rich and others are right, in this day and age a website is not a frill or a luxury, it is how people find places and interact/shop with them. More importantly, websites for a small business don't need to be complex or complicated, the hobby business that is a side business or a retirement business isn't the same as Charly Ro. Things like instant inventory updates, things like a fully functioning web store, may be beyond what the store can do, but that doesn't mean you don't have a well ordered and constructed site either, there really is no excuse for "hey, I built a web site, it works", and leave it like that, it sounds like a business that doesn't care about doing business, kind of like the LHS where the proprietor spends most of his time talking to his cronies and ignoring customers.......these days building a website is to the point where there are literally build a website out of a box solutions, that allows the owner to create the website without knowing a stitch of code, have it hosted for them, including e-store ability, and it isn't all that expensive. And to be honest, unless you are constantly changing the code that runs the website, bugs aren't going to be a big factor, bugs come when you tinker with it, change the code, change even things like fonts and whatnot..and a lot of the small stores/businesses we are talking about don't need to do that, most of the maintenance likely is updating what they have to offer/specials, etc. This isn't 1995, website technology is not exotic, it is a commodity item. 

I have seen all kinds of horrible web sites, where basic contact information, for example, or store hours (if a store), are buried somewhere deep. Likewise, there is no excuse when a website has artifacts on it, like listing Christmas holiday hours and it is April, or listing a sale that obviously no longer could be on. Outdated web information is a big no no, it leaves people wondering if the place is in business any more, if they even check the web. Put it this way, it would be a lot better to have a single page website with basic information on it (phone number, store hours, etc) then to have a website that has a lot more information on it but is sloppily put together, clunky to use/hard to navigate, outdated information, etc.

Give you an example of this, we used to order grass fed beef from a farm in Vermont. It is run by a couple, obviously doing this themselves, but ordering via the web is likely a large part of their business, and while I felt sorry for them , 9 times out of 10 the order was messed up in some way, couldn't get confirm the order went through, etc and I eventually went elsewhere. Having a poor website would be like them not bothering to make sure the livestock had shelter in bad weather, good feed, fresh water, veterinary care, because 'it was too difficult and time consuming", how long would they stay in business doing that? Web presence these days is a fact of life, and should be a priority, maintaining a web site is time consuming and frustrating, but not having customers for your business means not having a business. 

 

 

It's amusing to read this thread in it's 5th year. 

I entered the hobby this year.  I have purchased everything (outside of some old rolling stock) on the web.  I shudder to think how much money.  I have a spreadsheet but I'm not totting it up.  By and large the websites are navigable.  They all could use some improvement. 

As a newby, my biggest frustration hasn't been website design.  It's inventory and customer service.  I thought I'd be able to go to any number of  websites and buy what I wanted.  Imagine that!   Then I learned about catalogs, preorders, BTO, cancellations, etc.  There are a lot of small shops with decent enough websites but very little inventory.  You can spend a long time looking at dozens of different websites and never find what you're looking for.  And I have!

Then I'd place a phone call.  God bless you if have to call most of these places.  With exception of forum sponsors, of course! 

I have spent the last two days trying to find a couple MTH items. Going to individual dealer websites should have been the easiest and quickest. They are the most convoluted and complicated on the web. I finally have called 8 different dealers looking for the items and I will call some more tomorrow. At least MTH sometimes gives you a clue who has what products, Lionel who knows!!!

I was reading this site with interest and wham, it hit me this was from 2014. Well all the examples and experiences given back then are still relevant today. Now I have had very little trouble ordering from a website. I have recently experienced the click a link and be taken to the MTH website as illustrated back in 2014. But I am amazed that today websites do not allow you to create an account in order to follow your purchase. One of them is a sponsor here. It is one of my pet peeves that a website is not built so that you can place an order and see the status of that order. I have an order out to this forum sponsor right now and have never gotten a confirmation that I even made the order and other than call them (I cannot call from work during the day) I am in limbo, not even an email. I know my credit card was charged so this tells me they have the money but that's all I know. You would think that from 2014 to 2018 things would have improved. Not so. These people must know that some of these unimproved practices are driving business away.

I know I went off on a tangent a little but as I have said before, communication is key to a successful internet business. Allow your website to make those contacts or at least write an email. 

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