A quick look at the new Lionel SD70MAC at a local train store

@DENIS ORAVEC 110218 posted:

I had an opportunity to look at the new Lionel 2233051 CSX SD70MAC fresh out of the box this afternoon. I was quite surprised by the distance between the top of the trucks and bottom of the frame. The loco sits very high above the top of the trucks to the tune of 3/8 inch. The daylight you can see between the trucks and the frame is considerable. First we thought there might be an error on assembly, however, this was assumed not the case when we placed the loco on the tracks and observed very little space between the top of the tracks and the bottom of the fuel tank. Given the "look" of the loco frame sitting that high above the trucks I will not likely purchase the engine.

Has anyone else observed this on any of Lionel's new engines? Any thoughts about what is going on here? I would be curious to know if this is a one-off error or something we can expect to see from Lionel going forward.

Your thoughts.....

Denis

It surely can't be as bad as this Lionchief... Sometimes I wonder if anyone even looks at these models.

Agreed, it looks awful (no under frame details).  The Lionel SD70Mac is an older tooling and really an SD60M anyway.  I wished they would retire it (and the Dash 9) and start over.  The MTH model (now Atlas) is better looking, but not perfect.  The old K-line model with a better fuel tank would be darn close to perfect.

-Brian

Some of the loss of detail, may relate to corporate greed.  At one time Those who developed and operate the proto-types, wanted a piece, copyright, of the model action. If the model doesn't look-like the 1:1, solves a lot of legal problems.  IMO. Mike CT. 

Could the OP post photos of the offending locomotive? Merci!

Follow-up to request for SD70MAC Photo.........

I will try to post a photo later this week, after another visit to my local train store,

Denis

BTW, forum sponsor Mr. Muffin's has real photos of that engine and the others released in different road names. That said, he left the white shipping cardboard in and the angle of the photos so it's difficult to judge if I'm missing a big gap. This matters because a local dealer was bringing one of these in for me and now I'm slightly worried it may not be to my standards for a  $650 list price engine.

Photos from the 2022 release of the SD70Mac.  Depending on your angle of view, the gap is less noticeable and nothing like the Lion Chief photo from above, which is why I edited my previous post.   The shell is of the SD60M, which has been known and discussed for years.

The paint on the P&L is quite nice as is the BNSF.

Why no sunshades this time?

Photos of the 2014 Conrail SD70Mac.  The only detail difference is no sunshades.  The Conrail colors from 2014 and 2022 differ somewhat.

-Brian

I have to admit, that does look goofy from the direct on side shot of the engine at O scale people height on the ground.

I was just going over some recent Legacy parts that I had from a crushed Lionel #2133312 Legacy SD70ACe - Atlantic Coast Line #1967.

The story behind that was that a shipment was crushed by the shipper and so badly so it mashed not just the box, not just the foam, it crushed the engine inside. Looked like they ran it over with the forklift. As such, I never could see it as factory delivered.

That said, I did get to buy it for parts and the only surviving part was the Legacy electronics. It was so badly crushed not even the motors or trucks survived, they were bent, manged, and crushed.

However, in all that, the one thing I remember was there was an add on black plastic detail part on the frame that locks into the stamped frame and sticks down towards the trucks. Did they change this detail or leave it out by accident??

For laughs hope you never get an engine that looks like this.

Anyway, the pieces that I'm talking about in relation to the frame.

Again, this shot makes me wonder if they just left off a detailed frame extension piece? That would explain the gap.

Wondering if looking at the bottom side of the frame if those slots exist in the stamped frame, that would point that it was possibly meant to have a part they then left off?

Here is a web picture of an SD70ACe version (2133331)showing how that extra detail part then might be what was intended to hide the gap?

VS

Otherwise, what we are saying is, they got this detail and gap OK on the SD70ACe but then left off parts or never thought about it on the SD70MAC?

I received my BNSF version about a week ago, and this thread prompted me to take it out of the box. I can confirm it looks just like the others above with a lot space between the trucks and the body. It does look ….awkward. I’ll add the pic I took but it’s more of the same.  I’m not very happy with it. I’ll keep it, but it does kind of turn me off of the whole pre order and BTO business model (this was my first preorder anything).  Had I seen it first I would have taken a pass.

@Vernon Barry posted:

Here is a web picture of an SD70ACe version (2133331)showing how that extra detail part then might be what was intended to hide the gap?

VS

Otherwise, what we are saying is, they got this detail and gap OK on the SD70ACe but then left off parts or never thought about it on the SD70MAC?

The model of the SD70Mac is a bit older than the SD70ACE and other than electronics, not much has changed.  I don't believe they left anything off, they were just never part of the design.  But you have the right idea about possibly filling that gap.

-Brian

The under frame parts shown above are available on the Lionel website.  

cs-6208334217  Frame Rail / SD-70 ACe / Left / Black  $8.50

cs-6208334218 Frame Rail / SD-70 ACe / Right / Black  $8.50

Here is a link to the web page.  Different engine but the part is the same.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...SD70ACe-4164-6-85054

Thanks, and 2 each of #78 to lock them to the frame

I agree about the gap. I bought (3) of them. The Conrail (CSX) and (2) BNSF. I knew about the gap before I bought them.

I take and post a lot of photographs and videos here on the OGR board, my magazine articles and on the ‘net. I just make sure my camera angles are positioned to avoid a straight on shot at track level.

Even while railfanning on the layout, I do not see the gap sitting on a stool unless I try to look for it with my head at track level. My two main levels are 40” and 50” off the floor.

I am not making excuses for Lionel as I feel they could have done a better job in execution, especially with previous attempts and complaints.
I will be looking into the recommendations made above about the filler piece. Thanks.

Donald

Guess we're going to see if and how well the frame rails fit & fill the gap.  Just ordered them for my BNSF SD70MAC Merger.

When they arrive I'll post what the results are.

@Retired posted:

Guess we're going to see if and how well the fame rails fit & fill the gap.  Just ordered them for my BNSF SD70MAC Merger.

When they arrive I'll post what the results are.

Hello. I just looked at the frame of my "Merger". I do not see any slots in it to accept the filler piece like is shown in the pic above. It looks to me like the frame is a solid piece with no openings and just a few screws to attach it to the body.

Maybe I am missing how these detail pieces attach?

Thanks.

Donald

As I eluded to:

"... we're going to see if and how well the frame rails fit ..." when they arrive!

@Retired posted:

As I eluded to:

"... we're going to see if and how well the fame rails fit ..." when they arrive!

Fair enough! I hope they fit great.
Thank you.
Donald

This is one of the reasons I only have one diesel and it's a switcher.  Why Lionel doesn't give the option to switch out the swinging pilot for a fixed one like Atlas and 3rdrail is beyond me.  I'd own more diesels for sure.  That gap and the swinging pilot just kills it for me.

@superwarp1 posted:

This is one of the reasons I only have one diesel and it's a switcher.  Why Lionel doesn't give the option to switch out the swinging pilot for a fixed one like Atlas and 3rdrail is beyond me.  I'd own more diesels for sure.  That gap and the swinging pilot just kills it for me.

Add MTH and even K-Line to that list. No, not all of their engines but a few at least.

Lionel does have a fix pilot for their EMD E6s though. I am using it on an MTH E6.

Pete

Here’s my Lionel SD70Ace for comparison. Bought new in 2017:

Below are photos taken during a follow-up visit to my local train store. Please note there are no tabs in steel frame to allow mounting of the previously discussed SD70ACE "framerails" available as parts from Lionel.

Enjoy!!!

Denis

Attachment of the frame rails with the tabs would be convenient, but not the only way to attach.  I've been noodling on several other ways to securely attach the frame rails.  I believe the key is if the rails actually fit, fill the gap properly and look right.   At worst I'll be out $20 - at best I'll have a great looking BNSF Merger engine.

Again, time will tell.  I'll post my finding when the frame rails arrive.

Just looked at a bunch of older models of this engine on YouTube, they all seem to be same way

Is it possible the gap was needed to allow clearance to navigate its stated 036 minimum curve?

Let me make another observation on the CSX engine. At a local train show about a month ago one of these Lionel CSX engines along with a Lionel C&O SD-40 were on display by a local dealer. What struck me was they were painted with exactly the same colors. C&O blue is a very dark blue and the SD40 looked OK. CSX blue is a little lighter, more like a royal blue and the engine just didn't look right to me. C&O yellow is a deep yellow and Lionel's color was fairly good. CSX yellow is more brown like an imitation gold (like dulux) and the yellow Lionel used was just wrong.

If I were interested in buying the CSX engine, the incorrect colors would have kept me from buying it, however this may not be a problem for other buyers.

Ken

I am looking at these pictures, and then I look at my MTH locos, specifically my AC4400’s and my SD70Ace’s. There is a bit of a gap on all of them. The space varies, but it is there.
If I am correct, @Rich Battista published a fix for this on one of his Black Diamond videos. I believe he glued a piece of styrene to the bottom of the frame and painted it black to cover the gap. It looks good when done his way. While not a solution for all, it does offer a solution.

I wonder if there's any quality control inspectors at Lionel'... It is difficult to digest, Lionel would send these clearly inferior models to retailers'.. It's not like Lionel started making trains yesterday'..... Confusing'...