Good question......waiting for the answer as well!

-Pete

Paul, You would not have to use a separate transformer you can build a very simple circuit to convert the ac to dc and purchase a few adjustable dc voltage controls on Ebay to adjust your lighting such as this.

Ray

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I may be wrong, but don't lamps ( bulbs ) run cooler on DC power ?   I would think that LEDs would like DC more than AC.  Then again, is an LED really a bulb ?   

An LED is a light emitting diode and a diode passes current in only one direction. So DC is used to supply current to an LED. An LED has a limit on reverse current which if exceeded can blow it up. Because of the reverse current restriction, AC to an LED is a gamble at best. You might exceed the limit but sometimes (with half cycle AC for example) you may get away with it.

Your lighted buildings may include some circuitry to turn AC to DC prior to getting to the LEDs or LED strips that are inside. That along with some sort of current regulation will do the job.

I would follow the manufacturer's instructions where possible. If Lionel says that AC power is best, then there must be something else in the circuit to feed the LEDs properly. For the MTH, I don't know enough to make a recommendation on those.

Good thread on AC to DC buck convertors.  I use the L2596, they are great and have used them on LEDs and incandescent bulbs.

https://ogrforum.com/...g-need-advice?page=1

Also if you want to purchase from the bay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32165...mp;item=321657019357

Good thread that has big implications on new layout designs.  Does everyone typically use AC for the accessory bus (or buses) and then individually (or a grouping of similar accessories with LEDs for instance) do rectification/voltage regulation?  Does anyone use a DC bus and use a big variable DC supply?  New to this, trying to learn.

I use a big DC bus to power accessories and computer control. Mostly surplus desktop computer supplies picked up cheap off of Ebay. Most of my lighting is LED, and all of my operating accessories use small DC motors. My computer control is JMRI / CMRI running on a Raspberry PI.

So I use an ac to dc buck converter off the 12vac accessory terminal of transformer to change and reduce voltage to a 10vdc buss which feeds some lighting at 10vdc and one circuit powered with a dc to dc stepdown converter at 4.5vdc.  It works perfectly well.  Simple to set up, but looks confusing.  Start at upper right xfrmr and follow wires on your way back to the left.

Edit:  This is the layout lighting powered by this setup.  Not the tree of course.

I fully understand that LED "bulbs" are designed to run on DC but three years ago I accidentally replaced all of my outdoor lighting bulbs with them. The AC landscape lighting transformer used puts out 12VAC @ 5 amps. Haven't lost an LED bulb yet.  Perhaps because each LED bulb has 5 LED's on it (must have a resistor too) that may have something to do with it. Really have no definitive answer but it works and lasts.

I use a salvaged PC power supply for all my lighting. I'll never get to the 300 watt capacity. Mostly I use the 12vdc tap for signals and led strip lighting; even the MTH crossing gates work on dc. I use dc to dc converters for some Miller signs, or the 5vdc tap and a diode for Menards buildings. You can share the commons with train transformer and the power supply. They usually run from free to $10 or $15, so they are an inexpensive option. They have internal circuit protection that is super fast. I have two 12 volt lines on 3 amp resettable breakers and have not had one trip. It is always the power supply that kicks out.

Guys, this is kind of new to me.

Up until now, I've been powering all buildings from the accessory terminal ports on my Z-4000 transformers - which are 10 and 14 volt AC - and my Lionel 75 Watt Postwar transformer (AC). It wasn't until I noted the various LEDs coming on sooner (MTH) = lesser voltage - than the Lionel LEDs that I began to think about what's going on. The only discernable difference in their physical makeup is that the MTH LEDs are tiny compared to the Lionel bulbs. Now that I think about it I am wondering if the Lionel buildings lights are LEDs or other type? FWIW: I have 5 MTH buildings and 6 Lionel - all Christmas buildings (Lionel calls theirs "Holiday" houses). Picture below shows Lionel house on left and MTH on right - you can see the bulb sizes. To keep the MTH houses at a normal brightness I will have to split all house wires to two pairs of terminal strips and power them separately. I appreciate the tips on voltage converters but honestly I don't know how to use them, do they come with instructions?

It sounds like the Lionel bulbs are incandescent.

Question - do outdoor LED Christmas lights and LED lighting fixtures (used in basements primarily) have their own voltage reducers??

Paul Kallus posted:

Guys, this is kind of new to me.

Up until now, I've been powering all buildings from the accessory terminal ports on my Z-4000 transformers - which are 10 and 14 volt AC - and my Lionel 75 Watt Postwar transformer (AC). It wasn't until I noted the various LEDs coming on sooner (MTH) = lesser voltage - than the Lionel LEDs that I began to think about what's going on. The only discernable difference in their physical makeup is that the MTH LEDs are tiny compared to the Lionel bulbs. Now that I think about it I am wondering if the Lionel buildings lights are LEDs or other type? FWIW: I have 5 MTH buildings and 6 Lionel - all Christmas buildings (Lionel calls theirs "Holiday" houses). Picture below shows Lionel house on left and MTH on right - you can see the bulb sizes. To keep the MTH houses at a normal brightness I will have to split all house wires to two pairs of terminal strips and power them separately. I appreciate the tips on voltage converters but honestly I don't know how to use them, do they come with instructions?

Use the LAZ1957 link above to order the converters, and then save this screenshot to your device for instructions.  JohnH has a source for the converter with a digital voltage meter and screw down wire connectors for a little more money.  You can email him(check profile).  If you do order, do yourself a favor and get three or four.  You’ll be glad you did.

LED "bulbs" have circuitry inside them to reduce voltage and current as needed. LED christmas lights are wired in series so that the voltage drop through each light divides the voltage to the appropriate level. The wire for a string of LED lights usually has some sort of rectifier near the plug that turns it into DC or half wave AC (just the positive side of the sine wave). That's the general explanation. There may be exceptions.

Here is also a separate rectifier unit, for 7-19v AC transformers, to do individual LEDs from EVANS DESIGNS.  I have used these on lighting police cars and such, works great.

https://www.modeltrainsoftware...tifier-for-leds.html

I use a 33 amp 12 VDC supply (Micromark).  You never know when you need more power.  I buy 12 V LEDs which I use for incandescent elimination.  I use similar DC to DC converters to derive other voltages off the 12 VDC.  In some cases I use LEDs designed to run on AC (Town & Country).

Paul Kallus posted:

Anyone know if it matters that the MTH Christmas houses with LEDs are powered by a DC transformer, and same with Lionel's Christmas houses with LEDs? Or, is AC better for LEDs?
Paul: I am not familiar with both products so will offer a 'general' opinion. I always thought LEDs  run on DC only but it looks like this is not the case - "Depending on the type of LED element and the driver circuit, you could either be fine or significantly shortening the lifespan of your lights. If the instructions or markings don't indicate that AC is acceptable then it's probably not." So it depends on the MTH product sheet which you don't have. From what you say below it sounds like it is not a good idea to power the MTH with AC.
First answer would be try DC on Lionel building. If it works then you are ok - run DC for all. However chances are that the Lionel structure has some kind of rectifying circuit so DC may not work (someone once said to switch polarity from the DC power source to the building - not sure if this works or not). You can try connecting DC and see what happens. It should not hurt anything.

FWIW: I noted the MTH LED houses' lights come on with lower voltage than the Lionel house lights - its quite a different range of voltage settings on my Lionel 75 watt transformer. In fact, the MTH lights come to full brightness just when the Lionel lights start tocome on, and by the time the Lionel lights are "bright" the MTH lights are super-bright and I want to power them down - can't win!
Assuming the power supply is AC first try placing a simple rectifying diode like a 1N4001 in line on the power wire or as mentioned above the Evans rectifying circuit and see what happens. Cutting the waveform in half may dim the MTH lights (they will last a lot longer on the DC). If neither dims the brightness then try some different resistor values in line along with the diode (guess - 500 to 2K ohms) to knock down the voltage or buy a variable resistor and set its value to match MTH brightness to the Lionel brightness. 
I need to now separate the MTH from the Lionel and power them separately. Am not sure if I should stick with AC to power them all, or if I can use a small DC transformer that I have to power one line of buildings. Lionel's building instructions say to use AC - and there's no instructions that came with MTH's buildings so am not sure.

Thanks all.

fwiw: the Lionel "Deluxe Holiday House" instructions say to power with 12-18 volts AC. I looked inside the structures and didn't see any circuitry - just wires going to the numerous LEDs and two incandenscent bulbs.