Adding cruise commander M to tmcc Weaver 080 need help

I've never run across a CC-M install where I had to alter the wiring of the 4-pin plug from a DCDR, in the dozens I've done, I just pop the two plugs out of the DCDR, wire the serial data to pin 24 of the R2LC and I'm done.  I can't believe it's reversed.

I agree that it seems ridiculous but the red wire is definitely the center rail pickup and as you can see in the picture it's reversed. I guess I'll keep it the way it is.

You are showing a DCDR.  Where did those gray wires go to?  Was there a jumper on the board?   Have not seen that on DCDRs.  As long as wiring is correct on the mother board the bell and whistle signals in conventional will register correctly.  Since this is  steam connection I do not think it will matter to the CCM.  Had it been for a diesel with ditch lights it could matter.  G

The two clipped gray wires went to a small board that supplied power to the tender marker led's. No jumpers. Also soldered to the bottom of the DCDR to the motor leads was a pair of wires going to another small board supplying the back up light on the tender.

I wish I had a schematic for this loco. Looking at the motherboard  it appears as if the incoming power is also backwards based on the printed notation above the connection. Just the same, it worked the way it was.

These engines originally had a problem with the electronics overheating when they were first delivered by Weaver.  I know that my dealer replaced the electronics before he sent them to me.  Perhaps whoever did the fix switched the wires.

I'm not sure, but I think that they originally came with TAS EOB.

Jan

These models a relatively heavy die-cast with a small motor.  I eventually replaced the motor with a Timko motor.  Improved performance, it has an EOB drive.   Some of the worm/gear drives are difficult for even the best electronic speed control. IMO. 

Click on triangle for a video. 

As it so happens with the DCDR, the reversal may not make a difference.  The input signals are opto-isolated from the motor drive circuit, so the track power is only used on the power side, and the reversal probably doesn't affect the operation. 

Now we'll jump to the bad news!  I see from ringing it out, the Cruise Commander M DOES use the track ground that comes in the black Molex connector for internal functions, so I'm betting that you'll get fireworks if you have that plug wired incorrectly!  Specifically, the serial data will be floating on track power instead of ground.  At a minimum I can't imagine it will work, and I suspect it's likely to do ugly things to either the CC-M, the R2LC, or both.

Update..... 

  I called 3rd rail who referred me to Roy's Trains. I was informed that the new CCM board will not work on this locomotive due to the main board not supplying the needed info from the R2LC board for the J1 connector. I'm glad I never put power to the new board and asked 1st. So much for the quick upgrade, looks like another PS 3 conversion instead.

Actually, it can be easily be made to work with this, but you would have to fix the power connector wiring.  I don't get how the R2LC can't supply the signal, it's the serial signal on pin-24!  If it has an R2LC, all the signals are there for the CC-M.

Wow, first time I have seen markers tapped off the 5V of the DCDR.  Usually it can be tapped off track power or the RS power supply since it is in the tender anyway.  I get the reverse light trying to use motor direction with a diode, all to save an extra wire from the R2LC.  OR are all the boards in the tender?  If they are I do not get why the R2LC output not used?  What was weaver thinking?  G

George, I've seen some REALLY odd wiring in Weaver and K-Line stuff for the TMCC installations.  I don't know what possessed them to do some of the stuff they did, but it was sure convoluted in some cases.

I'd fix the wiring for the markers and backup light first, swap the wires so the power goes to the correct place, and you can then install the CC-M.

Thanks John, I appreciate your input very much, I was ready to swap the incoming power leads had the serial in wire soldered to the main board on the 24 pin going into the R2LC board and figured on using the outputs from the CC-M board using the supplied connections from terminals 3 & 4 on connector J4. I also had the backup light wired in the same way Weaver had it since I have no idea where else I could connect it and have it work the way it should so if you have a suggestion on making that change I’d be happy to do it. The biggest issue I have is the 4 wires coming from the main board to the J1 connector on the CC-M board. I was told the way it’s wired from Weaver who used a TAS main board on this loco, it does not have the correct 5.6v or motor direction and phase control from the R2LC.

  Also all boards are in the tender accept for a small board in the boiler to power the front markers and head light. The simple smoke unit power is taken from track power and can only be turned on and off by a switch under the cab.

I think I'm going to back up.  I suspect without seeing this, it's hard to say what you have.  I really don't understand the comment about the signals coming to J1.  If the proper PWM signals don't come to the DCDR, the engine ain't going to move, so that statement sounds somewhat suspect.  I've worked on a lot of Weaver stuff, and added a CC-M to a few, but I've never come across a real oddball like you're describing.  In addition, you have a Lionel motherboard in the picture you posted, so where the TAS come into play, nothing in that picture is from TAS.

However, with all the other oddball wiring, I'd be hesitant to be making blind recommendations for upgrades, so maybe this isn't such a good idea.   I'll check out before I somehow get tagged with cooking something.