An open letter to Lionel, MTH, GGD, and other mfg's

dickkyle posted:

Please consider the production of a scale N&W 10 wheeler or similar size steam loco. Those of us that would like to run coal trains but are restricted due to layout size and  curves need an alternative to the big engines that are available today. I have found references and photos of coal consists  that were not pulled by Class A's, etc. If you build it I'm sure that you sell them!

Did you purchase one of the absolutely beautiful Sunset/3rd Rail N&W 4-8-0 M Class models? That would have been an ideal model for your purpose.

Lionel is doing an H10 in PRR. Maybe they will offer other Road names in the future.

I remember the M Class, considered it but never pulled the trigger to buy one. My mistake!

Good idea; been discussed here before.

A problem with that is that it costs nearly as much to design, engineer, build and market a 4-6-0 as it does a 4-6-4, yet "we" will not pay the near-Hudson price for "just" a 4-6-0 - at least one of similar quality and fidelity. I'm sure that there are other factors, but as it costs nearly as much, but won't bring as much...

The WbB Ten-Wheeler - a great-running loco - is presentable, mostly, but it has that cheesy main-rod/crosshead design. With a little tweaking on their part, that loco would be a likely candidate for all sorts of scratch bashing upgrades. 

Waynepa,

Have you ever considered re-lettering the PRR H-10?

Ed

rattler21 posted:

Dick, How many would you purchase is 3rd Rail offered a 4-6-0? John

How many did the N&W have?

I would buy as many as I could afford based on price, quality, and common sense! N&W had approximately 60 4-6-0's according to Wikipedia. I had thought about repainting something else, but that would probably be beyond my skill set. I had hoped that this post would trigger a "me too" response. I exchanged emails w/Scott Mann a while back and he indicated that the N&W market is exclusively for the big engines. Maybe that's true  and I'm out of luck. OBTW, I do have the 2-8-0 produced by MTH, a nice engine but too small!

' response.

I am in for a PRR K3 Pacific/ N&W E3 which bought 5 of the PRR steamers.

dickkyle posted:

I would buy as many as I could afford based on price, quality, and common sense! N&W had approximately 60 4-6-0's according to Wikipedia.

You might want to look at that Wikipedia data a bit closer, and see when most of them were removed from service and sent to scrap. Very few of them survived past the 1940s.

I had thought about repainting something else, but that would probably be beyond my skill set. I had hoped that this post would trigger a "me too" response. I exchanged emails w/Scott Mann a while back and he indicated that the N&W market is exclusively for the big engines. Maybe that's true  and I'm out of luck. OBTW, I do have the 2-8-0 produced by MTH, a nice engine but too small!

 

 

' response.

Didn’t Scott just run the Southern Pacific A-6 0-6-0? That’s a small one and a couple Mikados which are medium steam. You’ll be hard pressed to get anyone to make a road specific loco that’s not wildly popular. You just can’t get the sales 

The N&W had a total of 17 Class V1 4-6-0 locomotives. By no stretch of the imagination a common/popular locomotive.

While technically not a "10 Wheeler", the 2-8-0 Consolidation was much more common. There were 127 Class W2 locomotives rostered. I have a Weaver custom decorated for the N&W.

If Lionel/MTH offered one of the smaller locomotives, yes I would buy it. My first choice would be a S1a 0-8-0. I have the 3rd Rail M and love it.

I think a great alternative to an articulated, would be the 4-8-2 K1. Pull freight or passenger with the same locomotive.

Aren't most layouts basement?  Who is buying all these mantel pieces, if just big articulateds are selling?  Scott made one or two small logging articulateds, but l have books and had not heard of those Calif. roads.  The small articulated known to the East coast population center, that could run on basement layouts, would be the Little River 2-4-4-2 that operated in what is now the much visited Smoky Mountain National Park. (I'd like to be the wholesaler supplying those to the souvenir tourist traps in Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg!!) Might also win some train converts.  Of course, there are a plethora of other small engines l would be interested in, but maybe not enough, apparently not enough, others.

For moving the coal, a 2-8-0 would be the go to loco. The 4-6-0 was a dual service loco.

dickkyle posted:

... I have found references and photos of coal consists  that were not pulled by Class A's, etc. If you build it I'm sure that you sell them!

Sometimes you have to objectively look past your own point of view.

Your desire for a smaller N&W steam engine might be shared by 300 people, if you’re lucky. That’s not nearly enough for new tooling for Lionel to invest in. Lionel needs to be able to use the molds for thousands of pieces, including for other road names.

Brass runs can be that small. But the price would be well over $1,500.

Your best bet is probably to repaint or adapt something that is already on the market.

I am not really sure I understand the original post correctly. Most roads used the 4-6-0 for passenger trains until they were replaced with larger locomotives. Certainly in their later years many roads used them on local freight trains but it would look odd on a coal drag instead of a Y6 wouldn't it? Was the N&W the odd ball that used 4-6-0 locomotives on something else? Or did you meant to say 12-wheeler? If a model is already being used on a train it didn't pull can't other compromises be made?

I am not normally an N&W modeler, but I also wish I had purchased the 3rd rail N&W 12-wheeler 4-8-0. Finances at the time didn't allow it.  I am also a fan of smaller motive power, I can certainly relate to the sentiment of the original post. Smaller motive power is great but nobody wants to compromise with a representation of a model that doesn't fit the roadname. Lionel is offering a 4-4-2 in their newest catalog, so there is certainly demad for locomotives of this size.