APPARENTLY LOST IN SPACE

dobermann, I hate to be the one to tell you this but lots of folks have problems with DCS.   In fact, I would go so far as to say many on this forum have at least 2 hobbies:

1) Debugging DCS

2) Running O gauge trains (if and when #1 is accomplished)

If you're looking for the most reliable command system, I would recommend TMCC.  I ditched DCS and run TMCC exclusively.  Terrific decision.

Hopefully some of the experts on this forum can get you going, but if not you do have options. 

Best of luck,

George

 Yes, if you go thru the menus you can reset both the TIU and the remote. First thing to check would be that both have the same version of DCS loaded inside. Make sure the TIU is set to #1, one flash on power up. Make sure that the remote is finding it by pressing the read button. I'm sure the guys will be here to help.

 I would have to recommend buying Barry's book for anyone who needs help understanding DCS.

I almost gave up on DCS and went all TMCC until I bought Barry's book. After you get past the learning curve there is nothing better. I run all my TMCC thru DCS now.

If you can't find it in the book the forumites will always give you a hand-

Keep the faith

Scott

George, ( g3750),

I as well am trying to come with a decision,  do you have any MTH, locos

in your decision,  thinking about trying to drop off a few MTH, locos, (here or eb--) as I try

and improve on the running system, 

dober,

If the TIU LED doesn't light up I don't see how you could ever get an engine loaded into the remote. For the TIU to get power, you must have power going to FIXED 1 or use an auxiliary transformer plugged into the TIU aux. power port. Do you have the user manual?

since I know now from you guys its not plug and play as the owners manual and mth want me to believe. having used it for 30 minutes before trying to add a second engine i'm not giving it up. this stuff is impressive. until I relocate in the fall its 2 4x8 sheets on the floor with 2 simple loops. z4000. I started with 2 blocks.  at no time did it even occur to me to look for the red led but when I read that in the manual and looked there is no red led. I skimmed the manual looking for a restore to factory defaults but couldn't find one so I came here. now that I know its not all that simple i'll walk away today and start over tomorrow. when I had it working i'm pretty sure I tried every function on the gp9. no problem until I tried adding the sd70 ace I just got out of the local shop yesterday. both ps3. premier gp9 and imperial sd70ace.     

dober,

When you press the READ on the remote it will tell you if the remote can find the TIU. No sense trying to find an engine until the remote can find the TIU or do resets.

Start over.....

Power up remote with the s5 key....press menu/ system/scroll the thumb wheel down to.... reset remote, ... press the thumb wheel down to reset. The remote will shut down by itself.

 Place engine  on track Make sure all the wheels are on correctly

Supply power to fixed 1 IN....Fixed 1 out goes the track..

 Power up the remote again  (s5) wait a few seconds to let the remote do it's own  programming

Press ENG again... press SU (s2).. Add engine- press thumb wheel........ Add mth eng- press thumb wheel again...the remote should now be looking for the engine,, if it adds press the start up   hard key  3 (it say start up)   can you get this far????

Sheer nonsense!  I'm about as electronically inept as anyone in the hobby can be, and I had no problem setting up DCS some years ago and have been operating successfully with it ever since.  I operate PS2, PS3, TMCC, and Legacy locomotives with DCS and never found the learning curve to be particularly difficult.

I did read the manual thoroughly before I ever attempted to hook-up and operate with DCS, and I also have the DCS video that Rich/OGR did some years ago.  About a year or so ago I also bought Barry's book, and I keep it readily available for the few times it has been needed.

I recently purchased Lionel's CAB 1-L but have yet to hook it up to the layout (possibly will do that this weekend since the weather promises to preclude doing anything else or going anywhere).  I prefer it to Legacy (which I also have, but which needs to go in for service) because of the smaller remote with the CAB 1-L and the fact that I don't really need or use all the additional Legacy features.

I haven't found DCS to be anywhere near as difficult to set up and operate as some here are prone to proclaim whenever the opportunity presents itself.  Trains are running on my layout just about every night nowadays, and depending on the mood, I select from a roster of some 80 locomotives, including trolleys and PCCs.  Works fine for me!  

The handles have to be in the off position when it's first turned on each and every time.

remote reset handles off power off previously run engine on track

 when I power the z4000 track 1 says 40v 0.1a track 2 0v 24a

dober,

Sure sign that the levers aren't all the way back or the gears have jump position inside causing no voltage output of the transformer. And the red light should be on warning you.

I have been using DCS since 2007 and not one time did I ever have an issue. I just put it together and added trains and it has been fine. I think it is very simple to use and I never once read the instructions, I have Barrys book and to be honest never read it.

I have TMCC also and it is simple though prior to adding DCS there was a great learning curve I had to learn when using the TCP's 300 & 400 to run my MTH trains.

I just wanted to get it out of the way that DCS is no big issue.

Never having a problem I couldn't start to trouble shoot for you. I would need a lot more info then have to read a little if I could not figure out an issue by the way you set you DCS up first.

Well at least it wasn't a DCS problem.  Have fun!

Yup that throttle thing was pretty well hidden in the instructions. Most things involving DCS are either operator error aka failing to read instructions. Not the case of OP poster but others just plain trolling.

Page 4 Getting Started Z-4000.

BASIC OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS
1. Make sure the two large throttle handles located on either side of the
transformer are in the fully lowered (or OFF) position.
2. Turn the Z-4000 on by pressing the Power On button located on the lower right
front side of the transformer case.
3. Displays should illuminate and read approximately 0.0 VOLTS and 0.0 AMPS as
no power to the track will be applied when the throttle handles are in the OFF
position. When the handles are in their fully raised or HI position, approximately
22 volts of power will be applied to the track.
4. Move a throttle handle slightly from the OFF position toward the HI position.
You will see the VOLTS display for the track you are operating show a starting
voltage of approximately 5 volts applied to the track. In other words, the Z-4000
has an effective start-up voltage setting of approximately 5 volts, rather than 1, 2,
3, or 4 volts. This convention follows the design of the Proto-Sound® system and
does not effect the operation of any other manufacturer’s locomotive or accessory.
5. When you are ready to run the locomotive, raise the throttle handle to increase
voltage to the track until the train begins to move. Proto-Sound-equipped and
some other recent locomotives are programmed to begin in neutral, so you will
need to push the Direction button to put these engines into forward. Older
locomotives ma
Note:: If no load is present on the track when power is first applied (by moving the throttle up
from the fully lowered position), the voltage meter will jump to approximately 10 volts. A load is
created if any accessory, lighted car or locomotive is present on the track when power is applied.
No Accidental Startups will occur with the Z-4000 because the variable outputs are protected
from accidental high-power startup. If the throttle handles are not in the OFF position when the
Z-4000 is first turned on, no power will be applied to the track and the red OVERLOAD
light will illuminate

yeah its not a follow your nose thing for me. usually I can read the quick start guide and the rest just falls in place. the first 2 chapters and the trouble shooting section of my operators manual already look like the most popular book in the public library. all the other pages are still real shiny for now

You did the right thing. The quick start will get you up and running in no time.

so just 1 more question I hope. I searched here and read the accessory section in the manual with no results. i have a couple of mth operating cars. can i operate them thru the tiu? i started scrolling through the accessory menu and decided to ask here before i screwed something up again. 1 is a watchman boxcar and the other an operating hopper both mth. i did buy an operating section of fast-track but it's still in the box. no aiu as of yet. i have seen a board on the internet to operate the boxcar for $45 but that's a last resort thing. an aiu is on the list for later.

Dober,

Glad your system is working.

I stand by my statements.  They come from personal experience.  By and large, DCS operates best on loops and very simple track configurations.

The other thing that you can expect if you post a truthful experience or deserved criticism is the knee-jerk reaction of the MTH foamers on this board.

DCS has earned the criticism directed towards it:

• 4 TIU hardware revisions in 10 years
• Thousands of problem reports on this sub-forum just like yours over that period
• Spawned 2 editions of a 200 page How To book because it's so simple
• Spawned a cottage industry of experts dedicated to fixing / installing DCS

All facts.  All true statements.

George

George,

Why are you so negative to every new forum member that's trying to run DCS? They already have the system so let decide if they like it or not for God's sake. Your very discouraging toward them if you know it or not.

thanks George..I've been using a pc instead of a mac for years now... what would life be without challenges or problems to solve..i'll keep at this for a while and see how it goes  

I wish folks would stop trying to sell the Z4000 to newcomers   It's something that only adds confusion into the setup and IS NOT NEEDED.  If anything it's overkill (and expensive).

When I got DCS, all I had was a Z750 and the instructions say to use only the brick (no controller).  Very easy hooking up the brick (22VAC) to the TIU and 2 wires from the TIU to the track.  Placed a PS2 engine on the track, turned the power on and find/add the engine.  Nothing to it.

Since then I have bought other brands of engines with TMCC and each said NOT to use anything over 18VAC, so I got a Lionel 180 brick and replaced the Z750 brick with it.  Now I can run every brand of engine I have (MTH, Atlas, Lionel, 3rd Rail, Weaver, Williams).

I have to agree here. I have limited experience (3 PS2 locomotives), but I've only used a brick with the TIU and never had a need for a Z4000 or any other throttling transformer. I even finally played with the conventional engine setup the other day - again only with the Z750 brick. No other throttle needed. Simple.

I did have my difficulties with DCS at first, but they were primarily self-inflicted, and forum members here were very helpful. Now I really enjoy the DCS experience.

Fred

No, you will need the AIU for operating accessories.

And, as others have noted, you certainly do not need to invest in an MTH Z4000, Lionel ZW-L, or other large/costly transformer to run DCS.  I used an MTH Z750 and then a Z1000 for years to operate DCS prior to finally buying a Z4000 a couple of years ago.

DCS is not a difficult system to set-to, learn, and use.  Ditto for Lionel's Legacy system and their new CAB-1L and Base-1L configuration.  I have all three of these systems, and the only change I'm making is to replace my Legacy system with the CAB-1L/Base-1L because I like the feel of the smaller remote and do not need or use all the additional features available with the full Legacy system.  

The majority of my motive power roster (Alaska RR and U.S. Army) is MTH, so it's fairly logical that I would use DCS as my primary command control system.  That said, I also have the Lionel system available for the dozen or so Lionel, Weaver, and K-Line engines I have that are TMCC or Legacy equipped.  I normally operate this latter group of engines via the DCS remote, but even then one needs to have a Legacy Base or a Base-1L connected to the MTH TIU.  

As for George's comments:  You would be well-advised to take them with a large grain of salt.  He's just one of the single-brand loyalists (they come in several color schemes) and is pot-stirring in this thread, as he proudly proclaimed on another forum.

My very used DCS was installed without any issues.  I did have a wire harness that was bad between the loco and tender, otherwise everything has been working great,  I am running three engines at the same time.  Two on fixed one and one on fixed two.  I have a PW ZW for the power supply and I never reset the handles, unless there is a short from a derail which rarely happens.  I think the remote was poorly designed and fit and finish are not up to snuff, that is really my big complaint. 

Dman,

   Get Barry's book and the OGR Video Guide to DCS, read the book and watch the video, DCS works great when you understand how to build it.  I had a nice size DCS layout up for over 10 years and because I built it correctly I had no problems with it and it ran with all 10's thru out.  Those who bad mouth DCS do not take time to educate themselves on the system before jumping into building a layout running it.

PCRR/Dave 

The operating cars only need an operating track to work via the operating track controller.  You would need an AIU to operate the operating track through the DCS handheld. This will operate the car. The AIU does not operate the car.

One other note. You do need a TIU to operate the AIU. The AIU will allow you to run multiple accessories and control turnouts.

Wrong.  I certainly do not have a loyalty to a single brand.  I have owned or currently own locomotives from MTH, K-Line, Marx, Williams, and Lionel.  My rolling stock comes from Weaver, Lionel, Pecos River, K-Line, Marx, Atlas O, and MTH (the majority).  I do think discussing and objectively reporting flaws and problems with major purchases / products should be part of the conversation.  Perhaps that should even be part of a certain train magazine's mission.  

As for my statements above, again, no one has refuted them because they are true.  In fact, the reaction to these truthful statements just cements my point.

If you'll recall, I have publicly praised MTH for their DCS concept on several occasions.  Their execution of that concept?  Not so much.  And the volume of DCS signal, manufacturing, and instructional issues on this sub-forum pretty much bears me out.

So don't change the subject or try to make this about me.  It's not.  I have a lot of respect for good solid engineering whatever its source.  When I see some from this quarter, I'll let you know.

George

Dobermann,

With great respect for my friend Allan, lots of folks do in fact have problems with DCS.  Sometimes those problems can be overcome through various remedies, many of which are detailed in Barry Broskowitz's remarkably thorough tome on the subject.  But sometimes DCS problems are chronic, intermittently recurring, and mysterious.

For reasons I've never seen factually explained (though I've read plenty of conjecture), DCS works flawlessly on some layouts, large and small, but not well on other layouts.  If you are determined to make DCS work on your layout, I suggest you buy and carefully read Barry's book and sift through the DCS advice from OGR Forum members.  Through application of that advice, and through trial and error, I hope you are among the lucky ones who get DCS to function well for you.

This thread is not about whether the Lionel TMCC and Legacy control systems are better or worse.  It's about trying to get DCS to work for you on your layout.  I suggest that you ignore comparisons, good or ill, between the two systems and focus only on debugging DCS on your layout.

If you get it working, then great.  Happy railroading!  If not, you can probably sell it and decide then if you want to try the other systems.  Either way, don't let it get you down.  This hobby is for fun!  Anything that gets in the way of having fun is not value-adding.

Good luck with it.  I wish you success.

Wow,

I can't believe were this thread has gone. From a simple transformer handle position problem to blasting the DCS system. If it was this bad, I don't think MTH could sell any DCS systems at all.

Just the normal course of things around here, Joe…unfortunately.

But you're absolutely right:  If DCS was so bad, it wouldn't be in such wide use in the hobby, and I wouldn't be using it myself.  I was running trains with DCS up until just a few minutes ago, including several TMCC locomotives now that I have the Lionel Base-1L connected to the layout.  After I finish a bit of work online, I plan to see how things run with my new and as-yet-untested CAB-1L remote.  Will report the results here.

I'm still a big believer in BOTH command control systems, and truly believe that anyone who does not march lock-step to one brand or another (and whose motive power comes from any and all sources) would do well to have both systems available.

I'll buy that unwanted Legacy system.

Follow-up to my last post:

In the 30 minutes or so that have elapsed since the above post, I placed four double-As in the new CAB-1L remote and took it into the train room, where I proceeded to program and run a Weaver RS (TMCC), K-Line Shay (TMCC), and two Lionel Legacy diesels.  Fast and simple, to be sure!  This "Legacy Light" system provides all the features I customarily use when running trains, and all features performed just as they are supposed to.  A good investment and it's certainly nice to have both command control systems available for use at any time.  

I bought DCS because I could get into command control inexpensively.  I would like to get Legacy at some point, but I have other layout needs that will come first.  Blaming DCS is not really productive.  Track systems, the person building the layout have a big impact on whether DCS or Legacy will work without issue.  Not everyone has the skill sets to wire and construct a layout that will be problem free, additionally when those with lesser skill sets decide to use more complex track and switch systems it is no wonder they end up with problems.  

I use fastrack and fastrack switches, it is pretty darn idiot proof if you add the drops correctly.  I have a small amount of Atlas on my layout and have issues with just the conventional use on it so I know if I built an entire layout with Atlas I would have to pay attention and be more careful with the assembly and wiring to make sure the DCS signal would work without issue.  I feel confident that if I built an Atlas track layout it would work fine, I just know that it would not be as "plug and play" as it is with fastrack.

I can pretty much gaurantee that any of us that have DCS that have had ours working for any length of time could go visit the DCS layouts with problems and probably quickly find the mistakes in track installation and wiring that are the cause of the problems. Just because you can afford track and trains does not necessarily translate into the ability to construct a trouble free layout.

I'll put you first on the list, John.  First, however, I want to haul it over to the Lionel Service Center this coming week and have it repaired/upgraded/whatever.  It has not performed properly out of the box, and I'm not willing to sell something that isn't working as it's supposed to.

you caught the part where its an mth car on fast-track right jim?..thanks