Most the modeling I do is to change the number of doors on a car, or adding a light. No actual modeling
Simply put...I am a model railroader to build things. I have more strip wood than the local hobby shop, I rarely buy or build a kit preferring scratch building to my specific needs of space and purpose.
Bob
David Minarik posted:The Scenery Forum used to be a great place for modelers. There were some artists there who were constantly sharing techniques and providing inspiration that was way over the top. Unfortunately, some have been chased away and others no longer post. Topics of 'which brand of kitty litter ' seem to appear in their stead.
They are still out there just beyond the grass mat mentality. I guess we all enjoy this hobby on different levels.
Vulcan was a constant source of inspiration for me.
Pete
I regularly read older issues of OGR (and when it was called OSR) as well as issues up to the present at meal-time. The issues from the 80's and early 90's are mostly filled with scratch built articles and plans on how to build trains, switches, and structures. Comparing the older articles with issues from the last 15 to 20 years there has been a trend of RTR items prevailing - and less on modeling and scratch building. For better or worse this is what has happened.
Personally, I am not very good at modeling nor have any real talents/skills, however I seem to enjoy reading the older issues more. Even the articles with B&W photos are enjoyable to me. Some of those old-timers were (and hopefully still are) true masters of model railroading. There's something inherently neat about the old model railroads (most were 2-rail O-scale) and the men who built them.
Texas Pete posted:David Minarik posted:The Scenery Forum used to be a great place for modelers. There were some artists there who were constantly sharing techniques and providing inspiration that was way over the top. Unfortunately, some have been chased away and others no longer post. Topics of 'which brand of kitty litter ' seem to appear in their stead.
They are still out there just beyond the grass mat mentality. I guess we all enjoy this hobby on different levels.
Vulcan was a constant source of inspiration for me.
Pete
He was one of the best! Leslie Murdoch was another.
I truly marvel at super detailed accurate models, whether they be buildings, scenery, rolling stock, locos, planes, or cars.
But that's not what I do. I prefer the toy train aspect of my railroad. I'll build a building or two, mostly from OGR buildngs, but build them more to "plasticville" stds. I don't worry about adding mortar lines to the bricks, etc. I want a building into which I can stick a light. Period. I run PW operating accessories, or modern recreations of same. I PLAY with my trains.
Regarding those darned kids that aren't interested in trains, I disagree. I'm a member of the Lone Star Hi-Railers, and we have an operating layout open to the public. EVERY kid that comes in there is just going nuts over watching the trains run. Most of the parents note that their parents or grandparents had layouts. Here in Texas, there are no basements, so parents say there's no room for a layout. I politely advise them to build a roll-away-under-the-bed layout for their kids and that nothing beats father and son construction time. Some of them get it, some of them feel it's too much work. It's a real shame to see kids going crazy for a true hobby, only to be pulled away by their parents and have an iPhone crammed in their hands....
I'm 22, and am actually active in modifying older engines that can use an overhaul or touch up. The thread elsewhere on the forum shows I've done quite a bit already to my Weaver SD40-2's, and I'm also doing some sprucing to my Lionel and MTH steam engines, like the Mikados and T-1's. So, I'd say that the "modelers" aren't totally gone. 
Mine all go from box to rails, but I know little about the prototypes and their details so I wouldn't know what details to add anyway. I'm happy if they just run well and don't have any problems.
There seem to be quite a few folks here on the forum that do know the differences and also add those extra details to their trains. I also agree with other posters that probably most of the 2 rail folks add details to their trains, layouts, etc. in one way or another. I think much more so than us 3 railers.
p51 posted:Anyone else read the editorial in the recent Model Railroader? The editor suggested that the reason why hardly anyone ever got a layout even close to looking finished was because you had to build everything yourself, by hand. I'd never thought of that before recently.
Strange, since I know many HO modelers that build next to nothing themselves and just plop everything down and their idea of model RR'ing is 99% Ops oriented. Then again, MR is really just an advertising mouthpiece for Kalmbach and all the advertisers therein - they've pushed everything RTR for a couple of decades.
mwb posted:p51 posted:Anyone else read the editorial in the recent Model Railroader? The editor suggested that the reason why hardly anyone ever got a layout even close to looking finished was because you had to build everything yourself, by hand. I'd never thought of that before recently.Strange, since I know many HO modelers that build next to nothing themselves and just plop everything down and their idea of model RR'ing is 99% Ops oriented. Then again, MR is really just an advertising mouthpiece for Kalmbach and all the advertisers therein - they've pushed everything RTR for a couple of decades.
The editorial was referring to layouts back when RTR didn't exist and suggesting, I assumed, that easier to build or place items out now mean more people have finished-looking layouts than you'd find back in the day.
And I think it's hard to argue there isn't a valid point there.
mwb posted:p51 posted:Anyone else read the editorial in the recent Model Railroader? The editor suggested that the reason why hardly anyone ever got a layout even close to looking finished was because you had to build everything yourself, by hand. I'd never thought of that before recently.Strange, since I know many HO modelers that build next to nothing themselves and just plop everything down and their idea of model RR'ing is 99% Ops oriented. Then again, MR is really just an advertising mouthpiece for Kalmbach and all the advertisers therein - they've pushed everything RTR for a couple of decades.
OK. How many folks do you think there would be in model railroading in general today (and particularly in 3-rail O) if there wasn't any ready-to run?
Seems to me that RTR drives interest and folks can grow into detailing or scratch building if they so desire.
Rusty
I'd have to look at each piece I have, but I don't think I have any that haven't had something done to them.
All my engines and rolling stock have Kadee couplers, except for 3 MTH and 1 Weaver passenger car, not sure what I'll end up doing with them (maybe selling them off).
Trying to accurately model Seaboard Air Line I've had to modify just about everything I have, from moving/adding parts to repainting. I have several pieces that were scratchbuilt.
It amazes me when I read about people who still have items in their boxes they forgot they bought, hidden away under the layout. Tells me you got too much stuff or you tried to collect everything that was offered only to find you couldn't keep up (been there-done that, in another hobby).
Like others said, I think the majority of "modelers" are busy modeling and not posting on the various forums.
I think MWB summed it up nicely. At times, the posters on this forum assume that their opinions and comments represent the entire hobby and industry. And any little change in their perception spells doom for the hobby.
It is also possible that the modelers are too busy with modeling to worry about this forum or to post here.
Disappearing? Yes. Gone? No. I always have a project or two going on; mostly locos and rolling stock; buildings sometimes. Never let me near your locos with my Moto-Tool...
I build things which are not offered "in the box", which is most things, really. For all the variety that is out there in locos, for example, most (particularly steam) have never been offered, nor will they ever be. So, when I can get a chassis that is close in size and valve gear, I can take it from there.
But I also love ready-to-run/go/put on layout stuff a lot. Most of it is better than most scratch building results.
We "builders" are fewer partly because we live in a culture that no longer values mechanical achievements (and has never valued it as it should have) and has a tiny "gear head" component, especially when compared to other industrialized nations, and also because there are so many nice, almost flawless products (made in other cultures now, of course) out there that are, to one degree or the other, affordable.
I can't speak for the number or quality of modelers in the hobby, as I don't have any good data.
As for myself, I'm not particularly good, but I do attempt things. I have scratchbuilt 2 steel mill buildings and 9 ingot buggy flat cars. I have modified a bunch of Weaver line poles to have street lights and painted two Divco milk trucks. I have another steel mill building and a highway overpass in the works. At least 7 buildings are in the planning stage.
Just going on gut feel, I would guess we are seeing a decline in the number of modelers.
George
G3750 posted:I can't speak for the number or quality of modelers in the hobby, as I don't have any good data.
As for myself, I'm not particularly good, but I do attempt things. I have scratchbuilt 2 steel mill buildings and 9 ingot buggy flat cars. I have modified a bunch of Weaver line poles to have street lights and painted two Divco milk trucks. I have another steel mill building and a highway overpass in the works. At least 7 buildings are in the planning stage.
Just going on gut feel, I would guess we are seeing a decline in the number of modelers.
George
I would like to see those!
I think it depends on how you define "modelling". Today anybody can purchase everything off the shelf, ready to run and build themselves a railroad. I maintain that creation is every bit a "model" as some one builds everything or most everything from scratch or kit bashed. The only real difference is the fidelity to the prototype (if any).
However, if by "modelling" you mean kit building, scratch building, kit bashing, custom painting/decaling, or model tailoring/modification, then possibly the numbers who enjoy that aspect of the hobby, of whom I count my self, could possibly be diminishing. As some have already noted, the OGR forum is probably not the place to find such people, as 3-rail O gauge has historically been mostly, put it on the track and let'r run. Which is perfectly fine, I've done it too many times.
I can't say I'm a modeler but I do make some things. I got a 3D printer a while back and made several Pallets and a couple Picnic tables for the layout. Then I got sidetracked into other hobbies as it's getting warm out.
I Have been letting a couple young extended family members work with me on a layout and they enjoy modeling once introduced to it. One has been so helpful she got a Membership to the Club I'm in for her efforts. She also enjoys model rocketry along with her brother. They both have their own rockets now. Yes, I assisted but they built them.
Modeling will not die as long as WE exert the effort to introduce new folks. Sure, some will blow it off and not care, but some will dig right in.
I did quite a lot of modeling, from kit building to complete scratchbuilding, back when I was in HO/HOn30. But the house we're in these days just doesn't have any place where I can put a permanent benchwork layout, so I'm forced to make do with floor layouts. That means FasTrack (for the Lionel) and a small loop of 027 (for my Marx collection). I've done some modifications to some of the scale Lionel, but otherwise, it's all RTR. I regret that, but those are the limitations I have to accept, and it's better than no trains at all.
I not saying this is correct just my opinion.
Has anyone thought the reason why you don't see a lot of modelling on the forums is because the modellers have promised what they are building to a magazine and therefore are tied down to that commitment and can't display their work until after it is published.
I'm only guessing don't shoot me down.
Roo.
Roo posted:I not saying this is correct just my opinion.
Has anyone thought the reason why you don't see a lot of modelling on the forums is because the modellers have promised what they are building to a magazine and therefore are tied down to that commitment and can't display their work until after it is published.
I'm only guessing don't shoot me down.
Roo.
I suspect there's many modelers who just keep cranking away on their projects without a thought to the magazines or internet. Every year I see a lot of contest models in the NMRA magazine that don't appear anywhere else.
Rusty
Rusty Traque posted:Roo posted:I not saying this is correct just my opinion.
Has anyone thought the reason why you don't see a lot of modelling on the forums is because the modellers have promised what they are building to a magazine and therefore are tied down to that commitment and can't display their work until after it is published.
I'm only guessing don't shoot me down.
Roo.
I suspect there's many modelers who just keep cranking away on their projects without a thought to the magazines or internet. Every year I see a lot of contest models in the NMRA magazine that don't appear anywhere else.
Rusty
All of the above are valid factors, 
But, how many contest models in the NMRA mag are O scale?
Ron, you are right. I only post shots of unfinished sections of my layout. Nothing I post will later be in OGR. Posted shots are with available light and just snap shots for a work in progress. Real lit shots are held back for publication. The only finished pictures I post are shots that have already been published. Don
There must be a few modelers out there, because there are quite a few kit and scratch building manufacturers out there.
If your only sources of information are through OGR, CTT, or even this forum, you are missing quite a few valuable resources.
O Scale Trains, Model Railroad Craftsman, O Scale Resource, and Model Railroader offer a much broader range of projects and advertisers geared towards the modeler.
3 rail marketing focuses on our side line hobby, namely purchasing. Just look at the top of this forum, and it's easy to see where we are. Post a topic on Lionel catalog release day, and watch it disappear.
The modelers are alive and well,today there are great scale rr's being built. For a long time I posted many projects on the scenery showcase to share what was being developed but got criticized for posting all the time off the forum and on the forum, it was like we were raising the bar to high and discouraging other modelers from posting on the showcase. And yet there were many who looked made no comments and appreciated what they saw and in their own way were inspired. Modelers do have time to share their ideas and creativity. Even folks like Sellios and the great John Allen were criticized.
David Minarik posted:Texas Pete posted:David Minarik posted:The Scenery Forum used to be a great place for modelers. There were some artists there who were constantly sharing techniques and providing inspiration that was way over the top. Unfortunately, some have been chased away and others no longer post. Topics of 'which brand of kitty litter ' seem to appear in their stead.
They are still out there just beyond the grass mat mentality. I guess we all enjoy this hobby on different levels.
Vulcan was a constant source of inspiration for me.
Pete
He was one of the best! Leslie Murdoch was another.
I'd add U (Dave M) to the list! There are some other great members here as well.
Of course there are times of the year that seem like there's a lull in things. After a long winter and spring arrives.
I personally, can't go in the basement until the heat gets me! I never seem to complete my projects anymore. The list of stuff does grow with new attempts. Of course life gets in the way too. A leaky roof or worn out utilities takes precedent.
Bob Delbridge posted:.
It amazes me when I read about people who still have items in their boxes they forgot they bought, hidden away under the layout. Tells me you got too much stuff or you tried to collect everything that was offered only to find you couldn't keep up (been there-done that, in another hobby).
Like others said, I think the majority of "modelers" are busy modeling and not posting on the various forums.
I have a big list of stuff piled in the to do list. Money and time. Or time and money? Seems I always have one and short on the other. Then there's times where both are in short supply.
Bob Delbridge posted:
It amazes me when I read about people who still have items in their boxes they forgot they bought, hidden away under the layout. Tells me you got too much stuff or you tried to collect everything that was offered only to find you couldn't keep up (been there-done that, in another hobby).
Well, maybe, but maybe not. When I go to York or the Strasburg O-Scale show in particular, I tend to look for detail parts for numerous scratch-building projects. Once I've hatched a concept or decided on what to make, my scratch-building projects all have:
- A scale drawing with measurements
- Photos of the prototype (if any)
- Parts list consisting of what I think / know I will need
- Project box (see through plastic bin with lid) to hold all the parts. Any detail parts reserved for a project are moved to this box from my general storage boxes.
If I'm building a kit, it is typically going to represent a prototypical structure on the layout. At that point, the kit lives in a large storage box (along with others) under the layout. I usually don't forget about these because everything is on an Excel spreadsheet. A copy of that spreadsheet goes with me to train shows. Occasionally, I will buy duplicate detail parts, but it doesn't happen very often.
George
While new product is becoming more and more detailed right out of the box, and less people may be scratch building or kit building I would definitely say modelers are not disappearing from our hobby. Just look at this forum on any given day and you'll see an abundance of upgrades, modifications, kitbashing and detailing of both the train and the structures and scenery. I think everyone models to some degree. Even if one does run trains right out of the box I don't believe very many are runnig those trains on a bare sheet of plywood without any scenery.
George, I guess I should have defined my use of "stuff" a bit better
If you're a "modeler", it's only natural to have those supplies or un-built kits (special stuff) on hand.
I have a large tackle box full of electronics parts (wire, cable harnesses, old circuit boards) just in case I get a project I want to do. Also have large plastic boxes full of brass bits, plastic, wood, and parts taken or left over from from old projects. Thing is I never seem to have the part I'm looking for at the moment.
Engineer-Joe posted:David Minarik posted:Texas Pete posted:David Minarik posted:The Scenery Forum used to be a great place for modelers. There were some artists there who were constantly sharing techniques and providing inspiration that was way over the top. Unfortunately, some have been chased away and others no longer post. Topics of 'which brand of kitty litter ' seem to appear in their stead.
They are still out there just beyond the grass mat mentality. I guess we all enjoy this hobby on different levels.
Vulcan was a constant source of inspiration for me.
Pete
He was one of the best! Leslie Murdoch was another.
I'd add U (Dave M) to the list! There are some other great members here as well.
Of course there are times of the year that seem like there's a lull in things. After a long winter and spring arrives.
I personally, can't go in the basement until the heat gets me! I never seem to complete my projects anymore. The list of stuff does grow with new attempts. Of course life gets in the way too. A leaky roof or worn out utilities takes precedent.
Joe,
Thanks. I'm just trying to be as good as Norm.
Dave
Bob Delbridge posted:George, I guess I should have defined my use of "stuff" a bit better
If you're a "modeler", it's only natural to have those supplies or un-built kits (special stuff) on hand.
I have a large tackle box full of electronics parts (wire, cable harnesses, old circuit boards) just in case I get a project I want to do. Also have large plastic boxes full of brass bits, plastic, wood, and parts taken or left over from from old projects. Thing is I never seem to have the part I'm looking for at the moment.
Isn't it crazy how you know you have the part somewhere, but can't find it? Even with a spreadsheet, it can be difficult to pin-point an exact location for something.
And every so often, maybe 1 in 10 chances, I'll find something that I need or fix something around the house with some piece that I saved (just in case). The wife is usually impressed. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen all that often.
George
I find the part after a go and buy a new one. Don
ChiloquinRuss posted:Just for grins, how about going to Google, type in ON30 layouts and then click on IMAGES. Just for grins!
Russ
Some of the most fantastic and creative modeling you'll ever see is done by the folks involved in narrow gauge (On30, On3, etc.). I continually marvel at the stuff I see--daily--on the On30 sites on Facebook. I don't have that level of talent myself, but I sure enjoy the accomplishments of those who do have those talents, including many of my very good friends in the O gauge community (3-rail and 2-rail).
I think it depends on what you mean by 'modelers.' I like to tinker with some simple adaptions but I don't have the skills others evidence. 
David Minarik posted:G3750 posted:I can't speak for the number or quality of modelers in the hobby, as I don't have any good data.
As for myself, I'm not particularly good, but I do attempt things. I have scratchbuilt 2 steel mill buildings and 9 ingot buggy flat cars. I have modified a bunch of Weaver line poles to have street lights and painted two Divco milk trucks. I have another steel mill building and a highway overpass in the works. At least 7 buildings are in the planning stage.
Just going on gut feel, I would guess we are seeing a decline in the number of modelers.
George
I would like to see those!
Me too Dave!
Rusty Traque postedI suspect there's many modelers who just keep cranking away on their projects without a thought to the magazines or internet. Every year I see a lot of contest models in the NMRA magazine that don't appear anywhere else.
Rusty,
I know for sure you're correct as I know a few of them. A good friend of mine is a phenomenal modeler and some of you wouldn't believe the stuff he's built.
On a whim, he built a perfect scale model of the old D&RGW yard in Chama, all scratch built, in On3. But he built it as it currently as, with the few.modern thing that are there now. I've seen it myself and asked why he doesn't publish. He shrugged and said it was about the challenge and couldn't care less about what anyobe else thinks. No contests, magazine appearances and no Internet. He hates the intenet abd only uses it for research. And he hates social media even more than i do.
Bob Delbridge posted:I have a large tackle box full of electronics parts (wire, cable harnesses, old circuit boards) just in case I get a project I want to do. Also have large plastic boxes full of brass bits, plastic, wood, and parts taken or left over from from old projects. Thing is I never seem to have the part I'm looking for at the moment.
I have a host of the storage boxes for the old 3.5 diskettes that I use for parts sorted out by brand names, and then I have John Armstrong's metal parts cabinet full of freight car details and other "good stuff", and then I have a couple of large parts bin cabinets just for Grandt Line parts and Tichy parts, although I think Berkshire Valley parts snuck into one drawer. Then there's a 6' long 1x12 shelf just for scribed siding, clapboard, and boxes of other wood like freight & pass car roof sections......and we are not going to even think about the cases of strip wood.
Fortunately, I build at a pretty good clip so I generally can find just about any of the parts I need - only issue is that the stack of project boxes is tall enough to be somewhat hazardous - think avalanche conditions....
In my opinion, weathering your freight cars and making custom buildings is a waste of time. Before you are quick to jump on me, this is coming from a guy who is terrible at this. My equipment goes straight from the box to the rails. This is common in my modular club and only a select few members have custom rolling stock. For those who have the time and skill to do this. You keep on doing it.
I believe there are a whole bunch of modelers out there doing their thing. I may be wrong on this but I also believe that the younger folks who are getting into this hobby are more likely to try their hand at modeling than the 60+ group. It is usually cheaper to build that to buy, they have confidence and creativity traits that are essential to good modeling.
This forum is a fantastic arena to help cultivate new modelers given the examples displayed and the willingness of the experts to help answer questions. While I will never be accused of being a "modeler" I have learned from forum members how to do a lot of things from the experts and consequently have done some things I never would have even considered pre-forum.
Ed
